IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

LoveGodsWord

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I assume by Israel you mean the Jews in general. I would say no, since they have not accepted the new covenant they are not within the New covenant community.

Hi brother ItK thanks for your thoughts. The OP is more towards who are God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT according to God's WORD. The scriptures seem to indicate that God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - the Church.

God bless.
 
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TuxAme

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In order to enter into a covenant with God, one must choose to do so. Though Israel is still under the Old Covenant, it hasn't accepted the terms of the New Covenant, and therefore isn't within it. So, God created a New Israel, the Church, to accept the terms of the New Covenant, while the Old Israel remains under the Old.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please.

God bless
Hi I have studied this issue and see two distinct set of promises and prophecies that we must distinguish what is being said to whom and integrate it with all other prophecies. The new covenant for the forgiveness of sins in promised in Jer 31. Jesus took the cup and said this is the new covenant made in his own blood. He declared He was initiating it . The verses people bring up about being spiritual Israel in the group of those saved is something that is clearly taught. so the list of things agreed upon is we are under the new covenant and Israel is not saved by the law.
Where we disagree is that the LORD has forsaken Israel and will not also bring them into a saving relationship with Jesus being accepted as God and Christ and the nation being established in an earthly 1000 years reign of Jesus. This is really a subject that a very long book could be written to get to all the relevant verses. Suffice it to say that the prophets have much that is declared about the nation of Israel that has yet to occur and to substitute the church in these passages makes no sense.
Jer 3 is a latter day prophecy that makes no sense to call the church.
14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.


Note God is promising to return the back sliding people to Zion. He promises to raise up shepherds for them in Zion in these days they will no longer say or mention the ark of the covenant nor shall it be made anymore. This occurs when Jerusalem is the throne of the LORD. The house of Judah and Israel are promised to come out of the land of the north and receive the land given to the fathers promised as their inheritance. If you take this passage for what it says we have not entered the time with the throne of the LORD in Jerusalem and indeed they are still talking about the ark of the covenant . Just last week this story about the ark surfaced. Ark of the Covenant may be hidden in Africa, biblical scholars believe
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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In order to enter into a covenant with God, one must choose to do so. Though Israel is still under the Old Covenant, it hasn't accepted the terms of the New Covenant, and therefore isn't within it. So, God created a New Israel, the Church, to accept the terms of the New Covenant, while the Old Israel remains under the Old.
God had Abraham set up the sacrifice and God promised his descendants the land of Canaan as a permanent possession and God consumed the sacrifice and required nothing from Abraham to receive this promise. The promise to the nation coming out of Israel was conditional that they would be blessed for walking in Gods ways and cursed even to expulsion if they went bad. God kept the conditional covenant too. In the law when God promised to wipe them out he reaffirms the 1st promise to Abraham that was unconditional. Deu 4 25 “When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the LORD your God to provoke Him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but will be utterly destroyed. 27 And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD will drive you. 28 And there you will serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the LORD your God and obey His voice 31 (for the LORD your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.

God will not forget this covenant made with the fathers. Psalm 105
He is the LORD our God;
His judgments are in all the earth.
8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
11 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the allotment of your inheritance,”
12 When they were few in number,
Indeed very few, and strangers in it.

Finally the prophecy about Jesus in Luke 1
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

This promise of Israel being Holy and serving the LORD is accomplished at he 2nd coming when the LORD saves them from destruction and it is seen in ZEch 14. This si the day the lORD is king over all the earth and delivers them from their enemies. This is the moment Jesus is revealed to them like Joseph was to his brothers and they will bow down and in that day recognize Jesus as God and king. Study ZEch 14 and note in the day the LORD is king over all the earth life goes on as the Mt of Olives has split in two and the river flows year round. Also the nations must now come and keep the feast of tabernacles or they get no rain. It also notes at that time no more Canaantites will enter the house of the LORD.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Thanks for your thoughts brother. However I believe the scriptures provided in the OP (post # 2; 3 and 4) actually show that God's true purpose of ISRAEL is beyond the bloodline do they not? I know you do agree as you have already stated you believe God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are the Church so I still do not understand your point. Forgive my slowness. You may need to elaborate your throughts further. Thanks for sharing brother.

To stay with your theme, that of the church, Revelation 12 is interesting. It shows that Christ was born of old testament Israel, but that the same woman becomes the church, which is protected by God from the devil. Nothing in the account suggests that she is replaced by gentiles. So physical Israel cannot be disconnected, separated, or disassociated from the church.

God's birthright promise plan for Israel doesn't involve the church directly, but history has shown that the church would only be safe and prosper in lands held by the descendants of Israel, which of course would lead us to believe that that growth would be largely the conversion of physical descendants of Israel.

So it was the destiny of Israel to inherit both of the Abrahamic promises of race and grace.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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To stay with your theme, that of the church, Revelation 12 is interesting. It shows that Christ was born of old testament Israel, but that the same woman becomes the church, which is protected by God from the devil. Nothing in the account suggests that she is 'replaced' by gentiles. So physical Israel cannot be disconnected from the church.

God's birthright promise plan for Israel doesn't involve the church directly, but history has shown that the church would only be safe and prosper in lands held by the descendants of Israel, which of course would lead us to believe that that growth would involve the physical descendants of Israel.
The 1st prophecy in the bible sets the narrative for the whole story of the future. The seed of the woman will be at enmity with the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent. We follow the genealogy of Adam to Noah and then down to Abraham where two promises are made. That Abraham of Abraham would come a great nation that was promised specific borders forever. A separate promise is that in Abraham's seed all the nations of the world would be blessed. This is now in line with the 1st prophecy and follows to DAvid that he would not lack a descendant to sit on the throne. This now is added to the other two prophecies and the genealogy follows to Jesus. When we get to Rev and the image of the woman with the sun moon and twelve stars that is the dream that Joseph had. This is clearly Israel and the son she was to birth is Jesus. When you get to REv 20 we see the head of the serpent is crushed by the seed of the woman. We see the nation of Israel saved and brought into the new covenant and certainly in ABrahams seed all the nations of the world were blessed as the LORD saved any one form sin who would believe and then saves the world form teh antichrist and total destruction and sets up a righteous kingdom that will have no end that is on earth for 1000 years than relocates to the new Jerusl
em after one last time of testing is allowed.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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A separate promise is that in Abraham's seed all the nations of the world would be blessed. This is now in line with the 1st prophecy and follows to DAvid that he would not lack a descendant to sit on the throne.

Jeremiah 33 explains that this promise is intended for Israel only and is a millennial promise.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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In order to enter into a covenant with God, one must choose to do so. Though Israel is still under the Old Covenant, it hasn't accepted the terms of the New Covenant, and therefore isn't within it. So, God created a New Israel, the Church, to accept the terms of the New Covenant, while the Old Israel remains under the Old.

Hello brother, TuxAme, thanks for your comments. According to God's WORD the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL who the scriptures say are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD see OP post # 3, 4 and 5. *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:7-12. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT is the Church.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm trying to figure out since when do the Jews have a pass to salvation without Christ?

They do not brother David what is your point? You do know that many of the JEWS or ISRAEL accepted Christ as the promised Messiah and God's lamb for salvation and forgiveness of sins right?
 
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Ken Rank

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please.

God bless
"I will make a new covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel." Judah and Israel, the names of the southern and northern Kingdoms of what made up the Whole House of Israel. So yes, without question, Israel is part of the covenant whether that fits into our Christian paradigm, or not. As to who exactly Judah and Israel represent today? There are many answers... the Jews would say it all Jews, but "the House of the Jews and the House of the Jews" doesn't make sense with the "and" in there. I personally think we are looking at Jews and Christians, who today are not on the same theological page, but who, upon the coming of messiah, will be. But that is my view... others have their own.
 
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he-man

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please. God bless
The persons with whom this covenant is promised to be made, are the houses of Israel and Judah; which being literally taken, had its fulfilment in the first times of the Gospel, through the ministry of John the Baptist, Christ, and his apostles, by whom this covenant was made known to God's elect among the twelve tribes; but being mystically understood, includes both Jews and Gentiles, the whole Israel of God; Israel not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; such as were Jews inwardly; God's elect of every nation: [GILL]

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant [a compact] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people

διαθήκη G1242 diathēkē From G1303; properly a compact, disposition, testament, will, covenant, between God and man

Psalms 105:42  For he remembered his holy promise, and Abraham his servant.

Genesis 13:15  For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Exodus 33:1  And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it: 
 
The prophecy will be fulfilled when those Jews who accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, expanded the Jewish into the Christian Church.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The persons with whom this covenant is promised to be made, are the houses of Israel and Judah; which being literally taken, had its fulfilment in the first times of the Gospel, through the ministry of John the Baptist, Christ, and his apostles, by whom this covenant was made known to God's elect among the twelve tribes; but being mystically understood, includes both Jews and Gentiles, the whole Israel of God; Israel not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; such as were Jews inwardly; God's elect of every nation: [GILL]

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant [a compact] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people

διαθήκη G1242 diathēkē From G1303; properly a compact, disposition, testament, will, covenant, between God and man

Psalms 105:42  For he remembered his holy promise, and Abraham his servant.

Genesis 13:15  For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Exodus 33:1  And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it: 
 
The prophecy will be fulfilled when those Jews who accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, expanded the Jewish into the Christian Church.

Hi brother he-man, thanks for shaing your thoughts. Is not the prophecy fulfilled today if both JEWS and Gentiles have already accepted Christ the root *HEBREWS 11? Or do you think all JEWS and Gentiles need to accept Christ before the prophecy is fulfilled? Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother. Enjoyed reading the scriptures.

God bless.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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"I will make a new covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel." Judah and Israel, the names of the southern and northern Kingdoms of what made up the Whole House of Israel. So yes, without question, Israel is part of the covenant whether that fits into our Christian paradigm, or not. As to who exactly Judah and Israel represent today? There are many answers... the Jews would say it all Jews, but "the House of the Jews and the House of the Jews" doesn't make sense with the "and" in there. I personally think we are looking at Jews and Christians, who today are not on the same theological page, but who, upon the coming of messiah, will be. But that is my view... others have their own.

Neither the Jews or the descendants of the other tribes are a 'house' at this time. When they are gathered in the future they will be again. The question is, if the descendants of the house of Israel are still around can they be found in the church. Some believe, as I do, that they are the WASP's and are the foundational members of the church.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please.

God bless
It is not difficult nor needing any detailed scriptural proof that the Kingdom of God is for all those who believe and follow Jesus Christ of Nazareth. That includes geopolitical Israel. They were the first fruits in the beginning and then the Gentiles "the mystery" and "the other flock" were included in joining the Kingdom. Scripture? Endless in both new and old.
Blessings
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not difficult nor needing any detailed scriptural proof that the Kingdom of God is for all those who believe and follow Jesus Christ of Nazareth. That includes geopolitical Israel. They were the first fruits in the beginning and then the Gentiles "the mystery" and "the other flock" were included in joining the Kingdom. Scripture? Endless in both new and old.
Blessings

Hi Maria, thanks for sharing your comments here. Yes I agree. God's WORD is very clear on the subject. It is amazing however how many people disagree with these scriptures but I guess that is why there are so many different churches and church teachings. Obviously not all of them can be right. This is why we need to study God's WORD for ourselves and seek God's truth through his Spirit asking JESUS for help according to his promises.

God bless.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I'm trying to figure out since when do the Jews have a pass to salvation without Christ?
If you look at Rev there are redeemed out of every tribe tongue and nation and they all are redeemed by the blood of the lamb. In telling of Lazarus and the rich man we see a gulf between two sides and one group condemned the other comforted. Remember Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Those who had faith were in the grave untul Jesus purchased them with his blood on the cross. Those who see a prophetic destiny for Israel are not claiming they are now saved apart from Christ. Eze 36 promises God will give them a new heart. In that day they will know the LORD. I believe as Joseph was revealed to his brothers so too will Jesus be revealed at the 2nd coming. The day of vengeance in Isaiah 61 will be accomplished and they will mourn in Zion when they realize that Jesus was God incarnate all along. God will fulfill every promise to them and the plot line from teh beginning will be achieved.
 
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If you look at Rev there are redeemed out of every tribe tongue and nation and they all are redeemed by the blood of the lamb. In telling of Lazarus and the rich man we see a gulf between two sides and one group condemned the other comforted. Remember Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Those who had faith were in the grave untul Jesus purchased them with his blood on the cross. Those who see a prophetic destiny for Israel are not claiming they are now saved apart from Christ. Eze 36 promises God will give them a new heart. In that day they will know the LORD. I believe as Joseph was revealed to his brothers so too will Jesus be revealed at the 2nd coming. The day of vengeance in Isaiah 61 will be accomplished and they will mourn in Zion when they realize that Jesus was God incarnate all along. God will fulfill every promise to them and the plot line from teh beginning will be achieved.
God only promised to the redeems, not the unfaithful.
 
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