IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

LoveGodsWord

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We can either see Israel as now being the Church , or else see Israel and the Church as 2 separate entities now!

Yes this is what many people tend to do sadly enough brother YeshuaFan. God's WORD is very clear however and there is no need to guess. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. God's ISRAEL is God's Church. Thanks for sharing.

God bless.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Yes this is what many people tend to do sadly enough brother YeshuaFan. God's WORD is very clear however and there is no need to guess. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. God's ISRAEL is God's Church. Thanks for sharing.

God bless.
I am a Covenant pre mil, so see Spiritual Israel as the Church now, but that God also has some dealings with national Israel around second coming time of Christ...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am a Covenant pre mil, so see Spiritual Israel as the Church now, but that God also has some dealings with national Israel around second coming time of Christ...

Could be right brother I am not sure to be honest. I see in God's WORD that under the NEW COVENANT and God's ISRAEL being the church consisting of both BELIEVING and FOLLOWING JEWS and Gentiles, why would God need to have any further dealings with national ISRAEL? Would not the UNBELIEVING JEWS then be mixed with the UNBELIEVING Gentiles as in the wheat and tares growing together until the end of time? What are your thourghts?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church.

Yes this is what many people tend to do sadly enough brother YeshuaFan. God's WORD is very clear however and there is no need to guess. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. God's ISRAEL is God's Church. Thanks for sharing.

God bless.

I am a Covenant pre mil, so see Spiritual Israel as the Church now, but that God also has some dealings with national Israel around second coming time of Christ...

Sorry , no. The mistake made for centuries equating Israel for the church or the church for Israel is often a fatal one - because of all that goes along with the mistake.

Most commonly seen in my lifetime has been church-goers claiming Yahweh's Promises that Yahweh gave to His chosen people Israel (not to the gentile people) ,
for themselves, mistakenly, yet proclaiming loudly at times Yahweh's Promises for Israel AS IF they (gentiles/ churches) ALREADY received them, when they did not, and they will not, ever.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry , no. The mistake made for centuries equating Israel for the church or the church for Israel is often a fatal one - because of all that goes along with the mistake.

Most commonly seen in my lifetime has been church-goers claiming Yahweh's Promises that Yahweh gave to His chosen people Israel (not to the gentile people) ,
for themselves, mistakenly, yet proclaiming loudly at times Yahweh's Promises for Israel AS IF they (gentiles/ churches) ALREADY received them, when they did not, and they will not, ever.

Did you read the linked posts in the OP and all the scriptures that show the name of the origin of the name of God's ISRAEL and who God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? It is a little confusing the way you have it structured did you wish to explain yourself a little better? Thanks for your thoughts brother.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It is probably a much more involved subject than could be accomplished in several threads, and certainly not in one thread , especially with the rules of this forum.

To see/ having seen/ this happening a long time (not related to this forum, but in chruches), and historically for centuries,
yet
clearly explained with no contradiction of any Scripture, it is to me serious problem with many still today, for no good reason except that the whole world is deceived, so also so many that it seems should not be.

The outline/ promises/ differences between Yahweh's Promises to Israel and
the place (good and bad) of the 'church' in Scripture
is found in the writings of bulllinger, and some others of course but he was clearest I saw...

To help see this , while seeking the truth, realize that the books of Hebrews and the Apocalypse do not mention the church (even though the word 'church' is found in some translations of the Apocalypse, it is a mistranslation of Ekklesia) .....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is probably a much more involved subject than could be accomplished in several threads, and certainly not in one thread , especially with the rules of this forum.

To see/ having seen/ this happening a long time (not related to this forum, but in chruches), and historically for centuries,
yet
clearly explained with no contradiction of any Scripture, it is to me serious problem with many still today, for no good reason except that the whole world is deceived, so also so many that it seems should not be.

The outline/ promises/ differences between Yahweh's Promises to Israel and
the place (good and bad) of the 'church' in Scripture
is found in the writings of bulllinger, and some others of course but he was clearest I saw...

To help see this , while seeking the truth, realize that the books of Hebrews and the Apocalypse do not mention the church (even though the word 'church' is found in some translations of the Apocalypse, it is a mistranslation of Ekklesia) .....

For me brother, I guess as I read the scriptures in the OP. (These are from my own prayerful time in bible study). It seems very clear from God's WORD that God's ISRAEL is the same as God's Church who are the called out. All those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. You can see it linked directly to the book of REVELATION in REVELATION 12:17; 14:12 and 22:14. Not directly using the word Church but linking God's ISRAEL as those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD which is what God's Church is. That is only an example and we are talking NEW COVENANT here not OLD. The scriptures linked in the OP however show the full story from GENESIS to REVELATION in my view.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Could be right brother I am not sure to be honest. I see in God's WORD that under the NEW COVENANT and God's ISRAEL being the church consisting of both BELIEVING and FOLLOWING JEWS and Gentiles, why would God need to have any further dealings with national ISRAEL? Would not the UNBELIEVING JEWS then be mixed with the UNBELIEVING Gentiles as in the wheat and tares growing together until the end of time? What are your thourghts?
I base this upon Romans 11, where Paul states that God is not done forever with dealing with national Israel, for if it is glorious when we gentiles get put into Israel, how much greater will be when the natural ones, IE, the Jews, get placed back in...
Peter in Acts called it a time of refreshing when Israel, as in national Israel, will believe in Jesus and the nation shall be reborn again. I see that in Ezekiel about the bones putting on flesh and Israel become alive to God again...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I base this upon Romans 11, where Paul states that God is not done forever with dealing with national Israel, for if it is glorious when we gentiles get put into Israel, how much greater will be when the natural ones, IE, the Jews, get placed back in...
Peter in Acts called it a time of refreshing when Israel, as in national Israel, will believe in Jesus and the nation shall be reborn again. I see that in Ezekiel about the bones putting on flesh and Israel become alive to God again...

Hi brother, are you suggesting that all the nation of ISRAEL will come to Christ?
 
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YeshuaFan

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Sorry , no. The mistake made for centuries equating Israel for the church or the church for Israel is often a fatal one - because of all that goes along with the mistake.

Most commonly seen in my lifetime has been church-goers claiming Yahweh's Promises that Yahweh gave to His chosen people Israel (not to the gentile people) ,
for themselves, mistakenly, yet proclaiming loudly at times Yahweh's Promises for Israel AS IF they (gentiles/ churches) ALREADY received them, when they did not, and they will not, ever.
I see God still dealing with national Israel at end of this Age, right around the Second Coming of Christ, but until that time, All saved jews must come thru Jesus!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I see God still dealing with national Israel at end of this Age, right around the Second Coming of Christ, but until that time, All saved jews must come thru Jesus!
That never changed. And that has nothing to do with the church (for thousands of years).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Those still alive when He returns, as then all Israel shall be saved, and a nation reborn in a day!

For me, I believe it is all in the definition of who God's WORD says is ISRAEL. According to the scriptures as shown in the OP. God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. So if your JEW or GREEK (Gentile) it does not matter. If you BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD you will be saved. Thats how I read those scriptures. Do you read it differently and if you do how so? Also, why would JESUS reward the UNBELEIVING JEWS differently to UNBELIEVING gentiles?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If God's ISRAEL is all those who by faith BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD how can we know who these people are if every church claims to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? Not all of them can be right can they? It is interesting a lot of this is outlined in the NEW TESTAMENT that there would be many claiming to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God but that the many are here to lead us away from God and his Word. Any thoughts?
 
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Righttruth

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God gave two promises, or covenants. The birthright promise of material wealth and power to the physical descendants of Israel, and the scepter promise of salvation through Christ to all believers. The one doesn't abrogate the other. Both have been kept.
What is the use of temporal wealth and power if there is no salvation?
 
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Righttruth

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Only the Jews sought to kill Jesus.

Jesus abandoned his ministry to the Jews and went to where he was sent only; to the (spiritually) lost sheep of the house (the other physical descendants) of Israel"?

In that sense attempting to minister to the Jews was a 'courtesy', knowing that he would be rejected by them.
It was not courtesy. It was giving them a last chance before final rejection
 
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LoveGodsWord

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To stay with your theme, that of the church, Revelation 12 is interesting. It shows that Christ was born of old testament Israel, but that the same woman becomes the church, which is protected by God from the devil. Nothing in the account suggests that she is replaced by gentiles. So physical Israel cannot be disconnected, separated, or disassociated from the church.

God's birthright promise plan for Israel doesn't involve the church directly, but history has shown that the church would only be safe and prosper in lands held by the descendants of Israel, which of course would lead us to believe that that growth would be largely the conversion of physical descendants of Israel.

So it was the destiny of Israel to inherit both of the Abrahamic promises of race and grace.

Sorry OWG, I seem to have missed this post of yours somehow. Good point on REVELATION 12. For me I see the birthright promise being fulfilled in the NEW COVENANT as it is both JEWS and GENTILE BELIEVERS and followers of God's WORD that make up God's ISREAL under the NWE COVENANT. This is what the scriptures in ther OP are saying.

God bless.
 
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