The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[LoveofTruth]

Paul was defending his apostleship here. Apostles were authorized spokesmen of Christ. We are not apostles (despite you presumptuously claiming to be one).

You seem to forget in the verses Paul says Jesus Christ was mighty IN them also and that they have Jesus Christ in them also.

This section clearly answers this whole post for any who disagree showing that Jesus Christ speaks in us. And not just in apostles.

 

[Alithis]

You seem to forget in the verses Paul says Jesus Christ was right IN them also and that they have Jesus Christ in them also.

This section clearly answers this whole post for any who disagree showing that Jesus Christ speaks in us. And not just in apostles.

im so glad he does .else how would i hear his voice ,thus being one of his sheep.

I see little point in your discussion with the cessationists on the matter.
They have predisposed themselves to unblief on matters of the spirit.
Thehave need of repentance.. (the changing of the mind) and are thus far unwilling to do so.

 

[swordsman1]

You seem to forget in the verses Paul says Jesus Christ was night IN them also and that they have Jesus Christ in them also.

This section clearly answers this whole post for any who disagree showing that Jesus Chrust speaks in us. And not just in apostles.

It does not say "Christ speaks in us". It says Christ spoke in Paul, who was an apostle.

As to the references to Christ being "in" you, this is an established doctrine mentioned throughout the NT. It is a reference to the indwelling Spirit of Christ. See Rom 8:9-10. It does not mean Christ gives us new revelations via our feelings.

 

[swordsman1]

Thehave need of repentance.. (the changing of the mind) and are thus far unwilling to do so.

Since when has hermeneutically accurate bible exegesis been a sin?

 

[Alithis]

Since when has hermeneutically accurate bible exegesis been a sin?

You really should quote a persons whole post to present a level of honesty.
Can you quote where i said that..nope. you misrepresent the posts then attempt to refute what was not said.

 

[swordsman1]

You really should quote a persons whole post to present a level of honesty.
Can you quote where i said that..nope. you misrepresent the posts then attempt to refute what was not said.

Then what is my sin that I need to repent of?

 

[Alithis]

Then what is my sin that I need to repent of?

Odd how you think its sin ...
The word repent is from the greek metanoia ..to change the mind.
We all must repent of our own ways and minds and actions and philosophies and be renewed by the renewing of our minds.. This can never happen when a person is refusing to forsake thier own way and learn Gods ways.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It's the Holy Spirit that dwells in us, not Jesus Christ.

Not so scripture is clear in this area.

“5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:2-5 KJV)

And believers have the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost in them as scripture shows.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It does not say "Christ speaks in us". It says Christ spoke in Paul, who was an apostle.

Again you are in error here, Paul said,

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, and which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you..."
[Here Paul says that Christ was mighty in them as well (in the ones who had the knowledge of God for some did not have the knowledge of God (1 Cor 15:34), this is clear here. Paul said they sought a proof that Christ speaking in him but he says he was mighty in them as well, this is to say that Jesus Christ was speaking in them also and the word of God came forth from them mightily at times]

"4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also..."

[Paul again identifies what he was saying and Christ speaking in him with them as well for both of them had Jesus Christ in them]

"...are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. 5 Examine yourselves,..."

[now Paul is dealing with the ones who may have had a profession and not the reality of Jesus Christ in them or they may have been believers and had not come to know that this reality of Jesus Christ in them speaking which is also for them to walk in as well]

"...whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves,..."

[there seems to be two groups here ones who did know that Jesus Christ spoke in them and who were mighty in him and the others who like some today may not believe that Jesus Christ is in them and speaks in them and may have questioned Paul in this and said "prove that Jesus Christ speaks in you". So Paul questions them in this and ask them that "know ye NOT that Jesus Christ is in you (and speaks in you and is mighty in you in context) This is part of the evidence that we are in the faith, if not we are reprobates.
This may be like some today who know the reality of Jesus Christ in them and leading them and speaking in them and others who may or may not be in the faith who are not aware of this reality. In fact this section is directly related to all things we have been discussing.]

how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2Cor 13:3-5 KJV)


Paul said of the Corinthians,

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"

this is showing that they had Christ also speaking in them and His word came out from them as well.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Paul was defending his apostleship here. Apostles were authorized spokesmen of Christ. We are not apostles (despite you presumptuously claiming to be one).

When you say "we" are not apostles. I certainly agree that you are not one. But don't speak for others gifts and callings. Paul seem to have some who did similar where he said

1 Corinthians 9:2
If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord."

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me,..."

But Paul said

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"

If some claim to be in the "teacher gift" to the church or "the pastor gift" to the church, this is equally tested and from God or not. The only reference we have in the NT for pastors (as a noun) is in Ephesians 4:11. The other gifts for the church are mentioned there as well such as apostle, prophets, evangelist , pastors and teachers. If we get rid of two of them there then we must get rid of pastors as well for they are only mentioned in that verse.

But this would be wrong for they are all still needed for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto the perfect man. In every church we will see an order from God. Paul said God set some in the church (this was a different church than the one he wrote to in the book of Ephesians) firstly apostles, secondly prophets third teachers...So the gifts to the church are still needed in every church.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why would a prophecy from the Lord need to be judged by the body? It was either God speaking or it was a false prophecy.

Because we are to prove all things, Some may have a true leading and gift and others may not or may be going beyond what God sows them. and Paul wrote,

"29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."(1 Cor 14:29 KJV)

"6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;"(Romans 12:6 KJV)

"20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.( 1 Thess 5:20,21 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

That is referring to God speaking to man via prophecy.

Numbers 12:6 "If there is a prophet among you, I the Lord make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream."​

The section I quoted is not in Numbers. There is nothing specifically about prophets in the verses i quoted. This is general for all men in what I quoted.

We also see that the dreams and visions are for all the believers, and not just prophets (though God can also speak to prophets this way. Your assuming too much and trying to create an idea and disregard the broader application which the text I used applies to. This is not proper in studying scripture and applying it.
Here is your correction with the other scriptures I previously quoted,

Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

 

[swordsman1]

Odd how you think its sin ...

I didn't think I was in sin. That's why I asked what I needed to repent of.

The word repent is from the greek metanoia ..to change the mind.
We all must repent of our own ways and minds and actions and philosophies and be renewed by the renewing of our minds.. This can never happen when a person is refusing to forsake thier own way and learn Gods ways.

So I am stubbornly following my own ways instead of God's ways. And I need to repent. Which of my ways do I need to repent of?

 

[swordsman1]

Not so scripture is clear in this area.

“5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:2-5 KJV)

Christ "in" you is the Spirit of Christ, that is the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:9-11 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
​

 

[swordsman1]

Again you are in error here, Paul said,

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, and which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you..."
[Here Paul says that Christ was mighty in them as well (in the ones who had the knowledge of God for some did not have the knowledge of God (1 Cor 15:34), this is clear here. Paul said they sought a proof that Christ speaking in him but he says he was mighty in them as well, this is to say that Jesus Christ was speaking in them also and the word of God came forth from them mightily at times]

"4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also..."

[Paul again identifies what he was saying and Christ speaking in him with them as well for both of them had Jesus Christ in them]

"...are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. 5 Examine yourselves,..."

[now Paul is dealing with the ones who may have had a profession and not the reality of Jesus Christ in them or they may have been believers and had not come to know that this reality of Jesus Christ in them speaking which is also for them to walk in as well]

"...whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves,..."

[there seems to be two groups here ones who did know that Jesus Christ spoke in them and who were mighty in him and the others who like some today may not believe that Jesus Christ is in them and speaks in them and may have questioned Paul in this and said "prove that Jesus Christ speaks in you". So Paul questions them in this and ask them that "know ye NOT that Jesus Christ is in you (and speaks in you and is mighty in you in context) This is part of the evidence that we are in the faith, if not we are reprobates.
This may be like some today who know the reality of Jesus Christ in them and leading them and speaking in them and others who may or may not be in the faith who are not aware of this reality. In fact this section is directly related to all things we have been discussing.]

how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2Cor 13:3-5 KJV)


Paul said of the Corinthians,

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"

this is showing that they had Christ also speaking in them and His word came out from them as well.

Christ was indeed "in" them, as his Spirit indwells all believers. But Paul did not say Christ "spoke" to the Corinthians as He did to Paul. You are reading words into scripture that aren't there in order to change it's meaning to suit your theory. That is called the fallacy of eisegesis.

 

[swordsman1]

When you say "we" are not apostles. I certainly agree that you are not one. But don't speak for others gifts and callings. Paul seem to have some who did similar where he said

1 Corinthians 9:2
If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord."

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me,..."

But Paul said

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"

If some claim to be in the "teacher gift" to the church or "the pastor gift" to the church, this is equally tested and from God or not. The only reference we have in the NT for pastors (as a noun) is in Ephesians 4:11. The other gifts for the church are mentioned there as well such as apostle, prophets, evangelist , pastors and teachers. If we get rid of two of them there then we must get rid of pastors as well for they are only mentioned in that verse.

But this would be wrong for they are all still needed for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto the perfect man. In every church we will see an order from God. Paul said God set some in the church (this was a different church than the one he wrote to in the book of Ephesians) firstly apostles, secondly prophets third teachers...So the gifts to the church are still needed in every church.

Sorry but you cannot possibly be an apostle, despite your claim to be one. The qualifications cannot be met today. You need to be an eye-witness to the risen Lord Jesus.

Acts 1:22 "one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection"​

But Paul said he was the last person to see Him.

1 Cor 15:8 "and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also."​

Paul also said that apostles were only for the foundation of the church.

Eph 2:20 "having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone"​

The apostles mentioned in Eph 4:11 are still ministering to us today.... whenever we read their epistles.

 

[swordsman1]

Because we are to prove all things, Some may have a true leading and gift and others may not or may be going beyond what God sows them. and Paul wrote,

"29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."(1 Cor 14:29 KJV)

"6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;"(Romans 12:6 KJV)

"20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.( 1 Thess 5:20,21 KJV)

The body was to judge whether the claimed prophecy was true or false. If it was a false prophecy then it was not a "prophecy from the Lord".

 

[swordsman1]

The section I quoted is not in Numbers. There is nothing specifically about prophets in the verses i quoted. This is general for all men in what I quoted.

The passage you quoted was from Job 33:14-17. It was not God speaking in that passage - it was Elihu, one of Job's lying friends.

We also see that the dreams and visions are for all the believers, and not just prophets (though God can also speak to prophets this way. Your assuming too much and trying to create an idea and disregard the broader application which the text I used applies to. This is not proper in studying scripture and applying it.
Here is your correction with the other scriptures I previously quoted,

Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

The prophecy that Peter quoted was fulfilled in the first century A.D.

 

[JohnB445]

People don't understand they need to be Born Again by the Holy Spirit by the will of God, not will of man.

It's not head knowledge, its a spiritual new birth that makes them a new creature in Jesus Christ.

It's not mere figurative language, the Bible is not a mere novel, Jesus is not a mere teacher.

You repented of sins? So did the Muslims.

You need to be Born Again.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Christ "in" you is the Spirit of Christ, that is the Holy Spirit.

Not accurate as scripture corrects you again

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:2-5 KJV

Do you believe in the “Trinity”? As I do?

We read of the Spirit of the Father in us and Jesus Christ in us is also said to be the Spirit of His Son in us.

John says that we have both the Father and the Son and we are in the Father and in the Son.

Again these mysteries are not easily understood by some as it seems you don’t understand them in your talk .