Hebrews Sabbath rest, how do you read it?

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You clearly promote no law keeping - no salvation. The Gospels don't promote that.

We are only saved by Grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe and follow God's WORD. We follow JESUS because we love him not because we are saved by the things we do *JOHN 14:15.

The Gospel is ALL the WORD of God and we are to live by EVERY WORD if it *MATTHEW 4:4. Those who are God's people are to BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. God's WORD teaches that we are saved from sin (breaking God's commandments), not to continue in sin (breaking God's Commandments).

Those who continue in sin either do not know God *1 JOHN 2:3-4 or if they have known him reject the gift of God's dear son and will receive the rewards of sin at the second coming *ROMANS 6:23; REVELATION 22:12.

God's WORD teaches that the wages of continuing in known unrepentant sin is death *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10-26:27. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. IF we knowingly break ANY one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27) Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *MATTHEW 7:13-23.

Sorry brother, God's WORD disagrees with you. God's WORD does not promote lawlessness. JESUS saves us from our sins (breaking God's LAW) not to continue in sin (breaking God's LAW). This is the good news of the Gospel.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Keeping or not the 7th day sabbath isn't called sin in the NT for the Christian. The only violators were unbelieving Jews.

In the NEW COVENANT...

GALATIANS 3:28-29
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.[29], And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

ROMANS 2:28-29
[28]For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

COLOSSIANS 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

............

SIN?

JAMES 2:10-11
[10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 3:20
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

ROMANS 7:7, What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

1 JOHN 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

.............

Sorry brother seems God's WORD disagrees with you.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Hello Mark, what I do notice brother is that you choose to ignore most of the scriptures provided to you, neither do you bother replying to most of the posts sent to you that disagree with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. We will have to all answer to God for either accepting his Word or rejecting it come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Some more comments for your consideration below.

That's a citation with nothing supporting it.

If you believe that REPENTANCE is a part of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures then what is it we are to repent from? If the wages of sin is death and sin is the transgression of God's LAW what do you think we need to repent of? Yes SIN! *ROMANS 3:20 (breaking God's LAW

Except you are 100% consistant on ignoring the gospel and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. If we live after the flesh (sin) we shall die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23. JESUS has come to call sinners to repentance not the righteouss *LUKE 5:32. God's people repent from their sins that they know about and do not continue in them *ROMANS 6:1-2.

More citations of verses you couldn't do an exposition on if you had a road map and a flash light.

PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

Another random citation without meaningful insight.

This is why it is written in JOHN 3:18-20 in regards to light. [18], He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
The SEED is in deed the Word of God. Those who do not believe and follow it do not come to it because they love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil (they break God's commandments).

The seed is the word of God, that's all you said and never once with reference to the gospel.
JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The gospel is all the Word of God and we are to live by it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the LAW and the prophets that all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. God's people in the OLD COVENANT or the NEW COVENANT have only ever been saved the same way and that is by FAITH in God's WORD *HEBREWS 11. The only difference is that the OLD Covenant Shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 are now fulfilled in Christ (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings and new priesthood in the heavenly Sanctuary). Those in the OLD COVENANT looked forward to Christ through the levitical priesthood and sanctuary sevice and sin offerings and those in the NEW COVENANT today look back to him who the sin offerings all pointed to.

Still crawling on your hands and knees to Sinai, sad really.

Good brother I am glad you agree now. If you now agree however there is no excuse to break God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20.

More citations with no real commentary, your fading fast.
Your error here brother is that you mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 10 commandments are not the shadow Levitical laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT. The purpose of the Levitical laws in the OLD COVENANT were as a suppliment to the 10 Commandments and a prescription for the forgivness of sin if any of God's 10 commandments were broken (sin offerings for fogiveness of sin). These are now fulfilled in Christ.

Your error is you abandoned the gospel in order to embrace this bizarre ten commandments observance doctrine. You can't do a real exposition and you haven't made a single point stick.

Not really brother. Your problem as shown in this post is that you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is and you mix up God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 with the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7.

Hope this helps

Baloney

Have a nice day :)
Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Keeping or not the 7th day sabbath isn't called sin in the NT for the Christian. The only violators were unbelieving Jews.
I thought I was the only one who realized this one was obvious.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Those who come to Jesus aren't rejecting God's free gift you required to be earned by keeping the sabbath.
That's the gospel, he don't get that.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
That's a citation with nothing supporting it.

Well that is not true brother do you respond to all the posts and scriptures in them sent as a help that disagree with you or do you ignore them? Happy to provide some links if you like just say so. This post you have provided here is also a good example of you ignoring the scriptures posted and not addressing the post and scriptures in them that disagree with you. Need we say more?

Except you are 100% consistant on ignoring the gospel and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Not really brother. God's WORD is the Gospel. That is all I have provided to you. It is God's WORD not mine and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. No one has God's Spirit while breaking his commandments *ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19 or do they know him *1 JOHN 2:3-4.

More citations of verses you couldn't do an exposition on if you had a road map and a flash light.

And yet there it is God's WORD not mine and your disagreeing with it? You do know it is God's WORD brother that you are responding to right?

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. If we live after the flesh (sin) we shall die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23. JESUS has come to call sinners to repentance not the righteouss *LUKE 5:32. God's people repent from their sins that they know about and do not continue in them *ROMANS 6:1-2.

Another random citation without meaningful insight.

Why would you think the scripture PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy. Is a random citation when it is a response and reply to what you were saying about in regards to repentance? It is very clear here that repentance is from sin not to continue in sin. Seems pretty relavant in that light don't you think? It is God's WORD brother not mine and we should believe and follow it.

The seed is the word of God, that's all you said and never once with reference to the gospel.

Well that is not true brother. The Word of God is the Gospel and we shoould believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.
Still crawling on your hands and knees to Sinai, sad really.

Not at all brother. I am now FREE in Christ to walk in his SPIRIT. The law of the Spirit and life in Christ JESUS has freed me from the law of sin and death.

JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The gospel is all the Word of God and we are to live by it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the LAW and the prophets that all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. God's people in the OLD COVENANT or the NEW COVENANT have only ever been saved the same way and that is by FAITH in God's WORD *HEBREWS 11. The only difference is that the OLD Covenant Shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 are now fulfilled in Christ (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings and new priesthood in the heavenly Sanctuary). Those in the OLD COVENANT looked forward to Christ through the levitical priesthood and sanctuary sevice and sin offerings and those in the NEW COVENANT today look back to him who the sin offerings all pointed to.

More citations with no real commentary, your fading fast.
That has no truth in it either brother. When I posted; "Good brother I am glad you agree now. If you now agree however there is no excuse to break God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20.

This was in relation to you agreeing with me that it is only through God's Spirit that we can obey God's 10 commandments. Then I challenged you by showing you that there is 10 commandments not 9 commandments in the 10 commandments. If there is 10 commandments in God's LAW why break the 4th?

Your error is you abandoned the gospel in order to embrace this bizarre ten commandments observance doctrine. You can't do a real exposition and you haven't made a single point stick.

Well that has no truth in it. That is simply a false statement that has no truth in it whatsoever brother. If you are not able to respond to the scriptures that disagree with you brother just say so. You are free to believe as you wish. All that has been provided for you is God's WORD. You can choose to ignore the scriptures provided for you as a help and pretend they does not exist. Doing so however does not make God's WORD dissappear. If you disagree with any of the scriptures posted to you then show why you disagree from the scriptures. This is something you refuse to do and not being able to do so you accuse others of things that you are guilty of. This is sad for you.

Baloney Have a nice day :) Mark

God's WORD is not baloney brother. It is God's WORD and we should believe and follow it. Baloney is not an exposition of the scriptures but a simple rejection of the scriptures presented.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I thought I was the only one who realized this one was obvious.

Many are called but few are chosen. Many will be dissappointed come judgment day *MATTHEW 7:12-23. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

JAMES 2:10-11
[10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Well that is not true brother do you respond to all the posts and scriptures in them sent as a help that disagree with you or do you ignore them? Happy to provide some links if you like just say so. This post you have provided here is also a good example of you ignoring the scriptures posted and not addressing the post and scriptures in them that disagree with you. Need we say more?

Yea, after being confronted with repeated expositions you should be saying much more, yet you repeat the same tired rhetoric.

Not really brother. God's WORD is the Gospel. That is all I have provided to you. It is God's WORD not mine and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. No one has God's Spirit while breaking his commandments *ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19 or do they know him *1 JOHN 2:3-4.[/quote

Again with this equivocation the gospel with the ten commandments, completely against the New Testament witness.

And yet there it is God's WORD not mine and your disagreeing with it? You do know it is God's WORD brother that you are responding to right?

I'm responding to your posts, you don't know the Scriptures and you are disagreeing with the gospel.

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. If we live after the flesh (sin) we shall die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23. JESUS has come to call sinners to repentance not the righteouss *LUKE 5:32. God's people repent from their sins that they know about and do not continue in them *ROMANS 6:1-2.

You got the all have sinned right but you would be made perfect by works of the Law, it doesn't work that way.

Why would you think the scripture PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy. Is a random citation when it is a response and reply to what you were saying about in regards to repentance? It is very clear here that repentance is from sin not to continue in sin. Seems pretty relavant in that light don't you think? It is God's WORD brother not mine and we should believe and follow it.

It's a proverb and you haven't done a real exposition yet, you quote Scripture and then go off into these private interpretations, I'm less then impressed.

Well that is not true brother. The Word of God is the Gospel and we shoould believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.


Not at all brother. I am now FREE in Christ to walk in his SPIRIT. The law of the Spirit and life in Christ JESUS has freed me from the law of sin and death.

JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The gospel is all the Word of God and we are to live by it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the LAW and the prophets that all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. God's people in the OLD COVENANT or the NEW COVENANT have only ever been saved the same way and that is by FAITH in God's WORD *HEBREWS 11. The only difference is that the OLD Covenant Shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 are now fulfilled in Christ (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings and new priesthood in the heavenly Sanctuary). Those in the OLD COVENANT looked forward to Christ through the levitical priesthood and sanctuary sevice and sin offerings and those in the NEW COVENANT today look back to him who the sin offerings all pointed to.


That has no truth in it either brother. When I posted; "Good brother I am glad you agree now. If you now agree however there is no excuse to break God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20.

This was in relation to you agreeing with me that it is only through God's Spirit that we can obey God's 10 commandments. Then I challenged you by showing you that there is 10 commandments not 9 commandments in the 10 commandments. If there is 10 commandments in God's LAW why break the 4th?



Well that has no truth in it. That is simply a false statement that has no truth in it whatsoever brother. If you are not able to respond to the scriptures that disagree with you brother just say so. You are free to believe as you wish. All that has been provided for you is God's WORD. You can choose to ignore the scriptures provided for you as a help and pretend they does not exist. Doing so however does not make God's WORD dissappear. If you disagree with any of the scriptures posted to you then show why you disagree from the scriptures. This is something you refuse to do and not being able to do so you accuse others of things that you are guilty of. This is sad for you.



God's WORD is not baloney brother. It is God's WORD and we should believe and follow it. Baloney is not an exposition of the scriptures.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

You have nothing, just this strange insistence you have to follow the ten commandments, that slave woman who can save neither herself nor her children.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
If one does not know God's WORD how can they know what the gospel is when the Word of God is the gospel? *ROMANS 10:17
If you don't know the gospel, you don't know the Word of God in any meaningful way and you obviously don't have the time of day for the gospel.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
If you don't know the gospel, you don't know the Word of God in any meaningful way and you obviously don't have the time of day for the gospel.

Ok brother, I see you are not interested in discussing God's WORD. You do know brother the scriptures teach that if we harden our hearts to the Word of God and do not believe and follow God's WORD then we grieve God's Spirit *EPHESIANS 4:30?

If we reject God's WORD when God sends it to us then we are no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God *ACTS 17:30. At this point unless we turn back to God's WORD the scriptures teach God's Spirit will leave us to follow strong delusions and lies that will continue to lead us away from God *2 THESSALONIANS 2:9-12.

God's Spirit tells me that there is no point in continuing our discussion at this point in time as you are not open to seeing and sharing God's WORD. In this case we will have to agree to disagree and I will pray by God's grace to see you in his Kingdom. It was nice talking with you brother. I wish you only LOVE, JOY and PEACE in the Holy Ghost.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok brother, I see you are not interested in discussing God's WORD. ...
Yeah, I had noticed that also. Such are interested in discussing what 'they think (it) means', and what they vainly imagine into the texts, and can eisegete, and aprior-ize, rather than what the text actually states of itself.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Ok brother, I see you are not interested in discussing God's WORD. You do know brother the scriptures teach that that if we harden our hearts to the Word of God and do not believe and follow God's WORD then we grieve God's Spirit *EPHESIANS 4:30?

If we reject God's WORD when God sends it to us then we are no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God *ACTS 17:30. At this point unless we turn back to God's WORD the scriptures teach God Spirit will leave us to follow strong delusions and lies that will continue to lead us away from God *2 THESSALONIANS 2:9-12.

God's Spirit tells me that there is no point in continuing our discussion brother at this point in time as you are not open to seeing and sharing God's WORD. In this case we will have to agree to disagree and I will pray by God's grace to see you in his Kingdom. It was nice talking with you brother. I wish you only LOVE, JOY and PEACE in the Holy Ghost.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
Still nothing about the gospel, you are at least consistent.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Of course repentance is part of the New Testament revelation, the New Testament describes this at length. The fact that you are a sinner has to be revealed to you (Romans 1:18-20), and is. The word of God is described by Jesus as a seed, the soil the seed falls on might be too hard for it to take root, or too shallow for it to mature and bear fruit, it can be crowded out by the cares of this life and deceitfulness of riches described as weeds. Once you receive this seed, that is the basis for conversion, it is impossible if you are enlightened:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age. (Hebrews 6:4-5)​

To be restored to repentance.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:6)
If you 'fall away'.

This idea of 'enlightenment' is simply the light of New Testament revelation, John puts special emphasis on the light that has come into the world, but men have loved darkness more then light. That enlightenment isn't the same as the ten commandments even though the Law did testify to the righteousness of God. The Law came through Moses as John tells us, but grace and truth came through Christ:

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (John 1:17-18)
You will not get the gospel of Jesus Christ from the Law or the Prophets, even though all the prophets spoke of him. You can't keep the ten commandments apart from new birth where the heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh:

I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ezekiel 36:25-37)
The Levitical law included far more then the Ten Commandments, there were rites of purification and sacrifice for sin. Only when you receive the Holy Spirit based on faith in the gospel are you remotely capable of observing the will of God expressed in his revealed word. Apparently, the Hebrews after the Exodus were given an opportunity to receive the Spirit on some level but the message was not received by faith.

For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. (Hebrews 4:2)
The Spirit swore in his wrath they would never enter into his rest, when they could cease from their labor. Obedience can be had by no other means, you believe the gospel and receive the Holy Spirit. Avoiding the hazards of unbelief and distractions both from carnality and legalism the believer will go on to bear fruit in the fullness of time. You won't get that from the Sinai covenant, most of them were stiff necked and rebellious and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. God almost killed all but Moses but Moses talked God out of it saying don't let it be said you delivered your people out of Egypt only to destroy them in the wilderness.

Your error is evident and obvious, your conflating the commandments of Christ with the Law of Moses,, two very different things. While it is true Christian conversion is marked by repentance and bearing fruit, Christ's commandments are not identical with the Mosaic Law. The Law has to be written on the heart, you must be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, you must be the righteousness of God in Christ which is how your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees. The Law made nothing perfect and can make nothing perfect, you must be born again and follow the law of the Spirit. You will not find that at Sinai, the gospel calls us to Zion, the city of the Living God. The dead letter of the Law was nailed to the cross through the power of an indestructible life (Hebrews 7:16). That life is found only 'in Christ', apart from grace and the power of the Holy Spirit you are powerless and lost.

Grace and peace,
Mark


By far one of the best posts I've read here at CF. Especially loved the enlightened emphasis.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I appreciate your frustration, where is the gospel in these arguments I wonder. Surly the believer knows that repentance and bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit is the heart of the gospel, the very thing you we're called to in the first place. You must become the righteousness of God in Christ which is impossible apart from the gospel. Of course we don't want to be entangled in the slavery to sin described in Romans 6 but we don't want to be children of that slave woman, as the Sinai covenant is describe by Paul in Galatians. There is a balance there, that balance between the righteousness of God witnessed to in the Law is manifest only through grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's called justification by grace through faith and appears to be completely abandoned by these kind of arguments. So like I say, I appreciate your frustration. We stand or fall on the gospel, there is no other way.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Just trying to address what is actually happening here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mark kennedy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello Mark, what I do notice brother is that you choose to ignore most of the scriptures provided to you, neither do you bother replying to most of the posts sent to you that disagree with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. We will have to all answer to God for either accepting his Word or rejecting it come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Some more comments for your consideration below.
Not ignoring them to you means taking your view point and following your chosen parts and interpretation of the law. For us that would require ignoring the verses we post and you don't like. If you say you like our verses, please at least comment on them.

You should've seen Jn 1:17 posted above. Would love to read your idea about the verse.
If you believe that REPENTANCE is a part of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures then what is it we are to repent from? If the wages of sin is death and sin is the transgression of God's LAW what do you think we need to repent of? Yes SIN! *ROMANS 3:20 (breaking God's LAW
Question for you - if we're not obligated to the covenant given to Israel (deut 4:13), how can we transgress it? Isn't that what you're saying we're in violation of?
All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. If we live after the flesh (sin) we shall die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23. JESUS has come to call sinners to repentance not the righteouss *LUKE 5:32. God's people repent from their sins that they know about and do not continue in them *ROMANS 6:1-2.
This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread or this part of the forum.
PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.
Exactly what sin(s) do you tink we're trying to cover?
This is why it is written in JOHN 3:18-20 in regards to light. [18], He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
The SEED is in deed the Word of God. Those who do not believe and follow it do not come to it because they love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil (they break God's commandments).
Nice quote. My problem is I can't relate your comments to it. Your words are divided against themselves and don't agree with your quote. Of course you'll claim the opposite, instead of looking at them very closely.


JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The gospel is all the Word of God and we are to live by it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the LAW and the prophets that all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. God's people in the OLD COVENANT or the NEW COVENANT have only ever been saved the same way and that is by FAITH in God's WORD *HEBREWS 11. The only difference is that the OLD Covenant Shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 are now fulfilled in Christ (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings and new priesthood in the heavenly Sanctuary). Those in the OLD COVENANT looked forward to Christ through the levitical priesthood and sanctuary sevice and sin offerings and those in the NEW COVENANT today look back to him who the sin offerings all pointed to.
If you believe Mat 4:4 applies only to the law and not all the NT as well, it's clear you don't believe what is called Scripture. All Scripture is from the mouth of God, because He inspired it. The testimony of one author doesn't invalidate the testimony of another. Now why doesn't the NT completely agree with the OT? Who instituted the differences? Isn't it God? Jeremiah says it is.
Good brother I am glad you agree now. If you now agree however there is no excuse to break God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20.


Your error here brother is that you mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 10 commandments are not the shadow Levitical laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT. The purpose of the Levitical laws in the OLD COVENANT were as a suppliment to the 10 Commandments and a prescription for the forgivness of sin if any of God's 10 commandments were broken (sin offerings for fogiveness of sin). These are now fulfilled in Christ.
You keep making this claim. The deal is we don't mix or combined the covenants. If we did I would have to agree with the mocking world about the Bible.
Not really brother. Your problem as shown in this post is that you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is and you mix up God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 with the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7.

Hope this helps
You also keep making this claim and refuse to clearly identify what we don't know or understand. Why? I think it's because you can't.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are confused. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that it points to? You mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
Confused about what? A requirement to keep a covenant that has been replaced?

Some time ago the speed limit on our big divided 4 lane highways here was 55 MPH. The speed limit has been change to 65 to 80 on the same roads. Am I guilty of violating the older limit by doing the new limit? No.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *1 JOHN 3-4; ROMANS 3:23; 5:12. The wages of sin (breaking God's LAW) is death to all who have sinned but God has given us the gift of salvation through his sin because he has shown us his LOVE in that while we were sinners Chirst died for us bring us back to God *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 5:8.

If you have faith and believe and accept the gift of God's dear son accepting his sacrifice on the cross, to die in your place for the sins that you alone have done and deserve to die for and repent confess your sins, giving them to JESUS then by faith alone (believing God's promise) you are free from the condemnation (death penalty) of God's LAW. If you continue in his Word by faith you will be free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16.
What you write here seems to say sin all you want. All we have to do is repent (mouth I'm sorry) and continue as though nothing ever happened. People talk about cheap grace and promote worthless feeble law that can effectively do nothing.
There is only salvation in the living Word of God. JESUS saves us from sin, not to continue in sin. Those that continue in sin will not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Hope this helps.
Jesus doesn't redeem (save) us from the law only to return us to it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not really brother. Those who come to JESUS are not living a life of known UNREPENTANT SIN. 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; JOHN 14:15. Those who live a life of known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and will not enter the kingdom of heaven *ROMANS 6:23
Those who come to Jesus answer to Him and not the law.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We are only saved by Grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe and follow God's WORD. We follow JESUS because we love him not because we are saved by the things we do *JOHN 14:15.
Wasn't it you that posted fulfilling is doing? How is it you then imply it's keeping the commandments of Jesus? Don't you believe Jesus gave them? Does Scripture agree with you? Jn 1:17; Gal 3:17, 19.
The Gospel is ALL the WORD of God and we are to live by EVERY WORD if it *MATTHEW 4:4. Those who are God's people are to BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. God's WORD teaches that we are saved from sin (breaking God's commandments), not to continue in sin (breaking God's Commandments).
Is the Gospel of John the Word of God?
Those who continue in sin either do not know God *1 JOHN 2:3-4 or if they have known him reject the gift of God's dear son and will receive the rewards of sin at the second coming *ROMANS 6:23; REVELATION 22:12.
Do you have a particular sin in mind? If not what are you going on and on about?

Did you really mean Rev 22:14?
God's WORD teaches that the wages of continuing in known unrepentant sin is death *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10-26:27. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. IF we knowingly break ANY one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27) Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *MATTHEW 7:13-23.
Oh, I see, you're talking about the 4th commandment of the famous 10.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

There's just to many great verses.
Sorry brother, God's WORD disagrees with you. God's WORD does not promote lawlessness. JESUS saves us from our sins (breaking God's LAW) not to continue in sin (breaking God's LAW). This is the good news of the Gospel.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
Where do I promote lawlessness (wicked behavior)? I do promote we're now delivered from the law as Paul says. I also promote what Luke says in that the law and prophets were meaning they no longer have authority to rule.

Also of worthy note is that I fully believe the words of John saying the law came by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus. So who you going to follow?
 
Upvote 0