One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[liberty of conscience]

...I'm not saved ...

This is again bait and switching the topic from the OP. The matter at hand is the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11).

Yet, define "saved".

What definition of "saved" are you using? "saved" from what/who or out of what?

Sin?

Define.

 

[bekkilyn]

Sabbath breaking (Exodus 20:8-11) is murder, self-murder, since the body of mankind was made to rest the 7th day. It is built into the human temple system. James 2:10.

It is also bearing false witness, taking the name of the Lord in vain, having an idol of self-righteousness (a law of 'right' doing apart from God's law of right-doing (Exodus 20:1-17), it is theft of time, relationship, coveting the time for personal unholy/common uses, and so on.

It would be akin to continue driving without oil in the engine. The heart/mind/body will break down, the relationship to the Creator will break down.

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

Under the new covenant, the sabbath isn't about a day of the week, but a person. The weekly sabbath observance in the Mosaic covenant was a shadow law pointing to Christ.

 

[bekkilyn]

This is again bait and switching the topic from the OP. The matter at hand is the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11).

Yet, define "saved".

What definition of "saved" are you using? "saved" from what/who or out of what?

Sin?

Define.

"because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

There is no salvation that comes from making a day of the week central to faith. Even the Israelites who were under the Mosaic covenant were not saved by observing a sabbath day.

 

[gordonhooker]

This is again bait and switching the topic from the OP. The matter at hand is the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11).

Yet, define "saved".

What definition of "saved" are you using? "saved" from what/who or out of what?

Sin?

Define.

You have lost me the Original Post a question about whether Christian under the new covenant need to treat the 7th day of the week as their rest and worship day. The bait and switch crept in after the OP....

 

[liberty of conscience]

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

Under the new covenant, the sabbath isn't about a day of the week, but a person. The weekly sabbath observance in the Mosaic covenant was a shadow law pointing to Christ.

Matthew 11:28 is citing Exodus 33:14

Exo_33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

The Sabbath Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) was and is never about a single day of the week. Read the Commandment, it is about the whole week, all 7 days and more importantly the LORD of it:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath from Creation is always rooted in the Creator, JEHOVAH Elohiym.

Look at vs 10, "of the LORD thy God",
Look at vs 11, "the LORD", "the LORD".

"Remember" whose sabbath day? The LORD's (Genesis 2:1-3). The sabbath is "of" the LORD. God rested.

The Law of God (Exodus 20:1-17) is never "shadow", but always "light":

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

You are confused on what Colossians 2 says.

Again, the Mosaic (old) 'covenant' is not God's "my ("His") covenant". It is God's, not Moses's.

Again, you are eisigetically reading into the texts that which is not present, at all.

 

[mmksparbud]

If you believe you are being singled out because some people don't agree with what you say and because you are a member of the SDA church why do you bother to respond?

I would just let it go and move onto the next topic.

LOL!---I'm used to it---it's like waving as red flag in front of a bull!! I almost didn't specify and thought about just doing what some do--just write Christian, but---if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! It is what I am and believe in. But I do think some would argue just to not agree with an SDA. Reason I say that is because some people have argued with me against something and then I discovered them arguing for it on another thread! It's OK, God gave a strong sense of humor.

 

[bekkilyn]

Matthew 28 is citing Exodus 33:14

Exo_33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

The Sabbath Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) was and is never about a single day of the week. Read the Commandment, it is about the whole week, all 7 days and more importantly the LORD of it:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath from Creation is always rooted in the Creator, JEHOVAH Elohiym.

Look at vs 10, "of the LORD thy God",
Look at vs 11, "the LORD", "the LORD".

"Remember" whose sabbath day? The LORD's (Genesis 2:1-3). The sabbath is "of" the LORD. God rested.

The Law of God (Exodus 20:1-17) is never "shadow", but always "light":

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

You are confused on what Colossians 2 says.

Again, the Mosaic (old) 'covenant' is not God's "my ("His") covenant". It is God's, not Moses's.

Again, you are eisigetically reading into the texts that which is not present, at all.

If you don't like "old covenant" (as there are three in old covenant scriptures) and you also don't like "Mosaic covenant", then call it "the covenant that God made with Moses/Israelites at Sinai". I know you know what we're talking about when we say "old covenant" as it's the covenant that included the ten commandments, so you're just nitpicking unnecessarily.

Christians are not breaking any old covenant sabbath laws no matter how many days are included, because under the new covenant of Jesus Christ, it's not about a day, or days, but a person.

 

[liberty of conscience]

"because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

There is no salvation that comes from making a day of the week central to faith. Even the Israelites who were under the Mosaic covenant were not saved by observing a sabbath day.

You only cited Romans 10:9-10. (I of course agree with the text) Yet, you did not define "saved" from who/what or out of what and thus did not answer my question. You did not define "sin" either.

The day is not and never was central. Jesus is. He (JEHOVAH Immanuel) is the LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), Exodus 20:8-11. His name (character) is central in the Commandment and the whole Law (Exodus 20:1-17).

No one has stated that 'Israelites' under the 'Mosaic covenant' were 'saved by observing a ("the", definite article, very clear in the Hebrew and English, you have to fudge here also?) sabbath day. This is diversion.

They were to be saved by grace through faith in the blood of the Lamb slain (Hebrews 4:2). Exodus 20:2. Because such, they were to repent and come back into harmony with God's Law, Exodus 20:6; John 14:15.

 

[gordonhooker]

LOL!---I'm used to it---it's like waving as red flag in front of a bull!! I almost didn't specify and thought about just doing what some do--just write Christian, but---if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! It is what I am and believe in. But I do think some would argue just to not agree with an SDA. Reason I say that is because some people have argued with me against something and then I discovered them arguing for it on another thread! It's OK, God gave a strong sense of humor.

OK see your point then....

 

[liberty of conscience]

If you don't like "old covenant" (as there are three in old covenant scriptures) and you also don't like "Mosaic covenant", then call it "the covenant that God made with Moses/Israelites at Sinai". I know you know what we're talking about when we say "old covenant" as it's the covenant that included the ten commandments, so you're just nitpicking unnecessarily.

Christians are not breaking any old covenant sabbath laws no matter how many days are included, because under the new covenant of Jesus Christ, it's not about a day, or days, but a person.

You are confusing, 'old covenant' (aka 'Mosaic covenant') with the Ten Commandments, which is God's "my covenant", "His covenant".

I already addressed this:

Indeed, "His covenant" (Deuteronomy 4:13) and God's "my covenant" (Exodus 19:5) is not ever the 'old covenant' in all of scripture. The 'old covenant' is identified clearly in Hebrews 9:6-9, which points to Exodus 19:8, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.".

God came with terms, "If ...", "... then ..."

The people agreed (Exodus 19:8).

Covenant (old) struck between God and man, with Mediator Moses.

Yet when God spake the Ten Commandments aloud, it was directly, and no Mediator.

There are 2 (two) covenants in Exodus 19.

[1] God's covenant ("His covenant", and "my covenant") - the Ten Commandments (which is eternal, everlasting) (Exodus 19:5), and this existed between the Father and Son in eternity.

Psa_89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

[2] the 'old covenant', which is the agreement between God and the people through their promises, (Exodus 19:8 (also Exodus 24); Hebrews 8:6-9, "fault", "promises", "them")

Again, you are eisegetically reading into Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 9:9-11 your own personal definition when you read "covenant".

The Ten Commandments, the Law of God, His Covenant, cannot be and are never called in scripture, the 'old covenant', see Romans 3:31; Jeremiah 31:33 (cited in Hebrews 8).

Read Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16, Isaiah 56:2-7.

 

[bekkilyn]

You are confusing, 'old covenant' (aka 'Mosaic covenant') with the Ten Commandments, which is God's "my covenant", "His covenant".

I already addressed this:

Read Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16, Isaiah 56:2-7.

The ten commandments are included in the Mosaic covenant. God made three covenants in the old covenant scriptures. Covenant with Noah with rainbow as a sign, a covenant with Abraham with circumcision as a sign, and covenant with Moses with the seventh day sabbath as a sign. The ten commandments were given to Moses as a part of the Sinai covenant, which lasted until Christ fulfilled it. To try to divide up the Sinai covenant into laws that came from God vs. laws that came from Moses (or any other division) to "prove" that Christians are still bound under old covenant law is false. All of it is "God's law". If you're going to yoke yourself to the law, you need to be following ALL of it. It's still not going to save you though. Only Jesus and Jesus alone can do that.

Note: It's called "old covenant" because that's what "old testament" actually means. It's also called "old covenant" because the covenant of Jesus Christ, i.e. the "new covenant" replaced it. That's what "new" usually does. There is something "old" that is replaced by the "new" once the "old" has served its purpose.

 

[Undercover_mormon]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.

Jesus, when speaking to a mixed crowd of gentiles and Jews, speaking about the destruction of the temple that would come (now we know it was almost 40 years later in AD 71), said in Matthew 24:20:
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day"
Why would Jesus say that? of course the winter one is obvious, winter in the desert is deadly, but why the sabbath if gentiles and jews were pressent and the sabbath was meant to pass away?

well, it wasnt meant to pass away. We can see this in the fact that the apostles and the early church kept the sabbath, even in mainly or even exclusively gentile congregations up to the 4th century AD, quite a missundertanding by the part of the apostles if the sabbath was meant to pass away!!


Also, keep in mind one thing.. everything that was just "a symbol" was for only us, God didnt offer sacrifices, God didnt burn rams or bulls, God didnt wash his hands, but us, humans... Yet God rested in the garden....


Finally.. sunday worship and moving the rest day didnt come until rome and the church as the entity known as the catholic church and by their power, so it isnt really a bible teching..

I dont know, the fact that those who learned first hand tought to keep the sabbath, and the fact that the early church kept it, the fact that sunday was brought about by a church with a trackrecord of using its leadership as another source of doctrine is kinda shady...

 

[liberty of conscience]

The ten commandments are included in the Mosaic covenant.

You just proved what I said (and already demonstrated from scripture). They are two things, not one.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes, as I said the Ten Commandments are God's "my covenant" (Exodus 19:5), but they are not called the 'old covenant', which Hebrews 8:6-9 identifies as those words in Exodus 19:8, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.", being the "promises" of "them" which were at "fault".

The Ten Commandments are never faulty. They are "sure", and stand fast for ever and ever (Psalms 111:7, 119:44).

I said there are many "covenants" in scripture, and that the issue is men applying their own definitions upon each.

You are eisigetically reading into the text of Exodus 34:28 'old covenant', but the context and words are not present to support that, at all.

Also, this whole route is merely to confuse the issue of the sabbath of God. Instead of speaking about the 7th Day, the 4th Commandment, the issue is suddenly bait and switched to 'covenants'. The 7th Day the sabbath of the LORD thy God, is from Genesis 2:1-3, before there ever was an 'old covenant' (Exodus 19:8; Hebrews 8:6-9) to speak of. It, the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD God, was made for man (Adam, 1st and 2nd/last), Mark 2:27-28 (see also Ecclesiastes 12:13-14; 'whole duty of man (Adam)').

What were the better promises that the old covenant did not promise?

 

[klutedavid]

You only cited Romans 10:9-10. (I of course agree with the text) Yet, you did not define "saved" from who/what or out of what and thus did not answer my question. You did not define "sin" either.

The day is not and never was central. Jesus is. He (JEHOVAH Immanuel) is the LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), Exodus 20:8-11. His name (character) is central in the Commandment and the whole Law (Exodus 20:1-17).

No one has stated that 'Israelites' under the 'Mosaic covenant' were 'saved by observing a ("the", definite article, very clear in the Hebrew and English, you have to fudge here also?) sabbath day. This is diversion.

They were to be saved by grace through faith in the blood of the Lamb slain (Hebrews 4:2). Exodus 20:2. Because such, they were to repent and come back into harmony with God's Law, Exodus 20:6; John 14:15.

Did Jesus give us commandments in the new covenant?

 

[klutedavid]

Jesus, when speaking to a mixed crowd of gentiles and Jews, speaking about the destruction of the temple that would come (now we know it was almost 40 years later in AD 71), said in Matthew 24:20:
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day"
Why would Jesus say that? of course the winter one is obvious, winter in the desert is deadly, but why the sabbath if gentiles and jews were pressent and the sabbath was meant to pass away?

well, it wasnt meant to pass away. We can see this in the fact that the apostles and the early church kept the sabbath, even in mainly or even exclusively gentile congregations up to the 4th century AD, quite a missundertanding by the part of the apostles if the sabbath was meant to pass away!!


Also, keep in mind one thing.. everything that was just "a symbol" was for only us, God didnt offer sacrifices, God didnt burn rams or bulls, God didnt wash his hands, but us, humans... Yet God rested in the garden....


Finally.. sunday worship and moving the rest day didnt come until rome and the church as the entity known as the catholic church and by their power, so it isnt really a bible teching..

I dont know, the fact that those who learned first hand tought to keep the sabbath, and the fact that the early church kept it, the fact that sunday was brought about by a church with a trackrecord of using its leadership as another source of doctrine is kinda shady...

Was Jesus talking to the apostles in Luke 21:20 or to a mixed audience of Jews and Gentiles. Remember that Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

 

[klutedavid]

You said the following in your post.

well, it wasnt meant to pass away. We can see this in the fact that the apostles and the early church kept the sabbath, even in mainly or even exclusively gentile congregations up to the 4th century AD, quite a missundertanding by the part of the apostles if the sabbath was meant to pass away!!

The historical record indicates that Gentile churches were gathering on Sunday to celebrate the risen Christ.

Your claiming that Gentile churches honored the Sabbath day, which the historical record does not support.

Your claim is baseless and you cannot support that claim.

 

[klutedavid]

You need to support your claims with historical evidence. Here is another baseless claim.

Finally.. sunday worship and moving the rest day didnt come until rome and the church as the entity known as the catholic church and by their power, so it isnt really a bible teching..

The church in Rome had nothing to do with moving the Sabbath to Sunday. The historical record tells us that church leaders met in Laodicea (Turkey). At the Laodicea council a church law was passed, which reads as follows.

Canon XXIX.
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians.

The bishop of Rome did not attend the council of Laodicea. Hence, the Roman church had nothing to do with enforcing that Christians gather on Sunday.

See how I support my statements with historical references, I encourage you to do the same.

In future, place the source that your quoting from, cite the source for your claims.

 

[liberty of conscience]

What were the better promises that the old covenant did not promise?

(new/everlasting) God, "I will ..."; Jeremiah 31, "my law" (perfect promises)

(old) peoples, "we will do"; Exodus 19:8 (faulty promises)

 

[liberty of conscience]

Did Jesus give us commandments in the new covenant?

You mean like footwashing (do you do this?):

Joh_13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

What do you understand the "new covenant" to be?

The "new" everlasting/eternal covenant existed even in eternity (“the everlasting covenant” or the covenant of life and peace, or the counsel of peace, ratified by the blood of the Son of God Himself and by the Father in Heaven, see Psalms 89:3,28,34, 105:8; Isaiah 13:12, 42:6; Malachi 2:5 [Jesus is the True Levi, meaning attached unto His Father], 3:1; John 19:30 [he finished laying the foundation, the words were unto His Father], 17:24 [the agreement in eternity past was made, Jesus kept His word, performed His vows, and now the promise from the Father was to be fulfilled]; John 3:16; John 19:28; Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 13:8; Psalms 40:7-8; Hebrews 10:7-9; Psalms 116:14-18; Ezekiel 38:23; John 17:19; John 10:18; 8:28; Psalms 110:4; Zechariah 6:13, etc), and thus was before the 'old' covenant, though it was ratified later (by the blood of Christ Jesus at Calvary, though promised from Genesis 3), and thus the 'old' was called 'first' (since that blood was shed at Sinai and ratified there).

The Commandments of God are the same (one lawgiver; James 4:12), they are eternal, unchanging as God is unchanging in character. Love to God and man is found in Deuteronomy 6:1-5; Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments (Deuteronomy 5), which is where Jesus, Paul and John were quoting from.

John 14:15; Exodus 20:6. Jeremiah 31:31-34 ("my law"); Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16; Ezekiel 36:25-29, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3, etc.

Lord's supper (in its seasons):

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Co_11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Going into all the world:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

etc. fall under the Ten Commandments, such as Honouring our Father.