One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[blackhead]

All Jewish festive days were called sabbaths--but there is only one The Sabbath day.





Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The only handwritten ordinances were those that Moses wrote on scrolls as dictated by God---the 10 commandments were written by the hand of God on stone -- you can nail paper to a cross, you can't stone. Paper is temporary, stone is permanent, the ordinances were kept outside the Ark, the 10 on stone were kept inside the Ark, the Ark represented the throne of God.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.





Yes--exactly---the Catholic church abolished the 7th day Sabbath--Jesus did not. What God has set aside as Holy no man can set aside or replace. It is God that makes anything Holy, man can not make anything Holy. What God has written with His hand on stone, no man can erase.




Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul did not say "or of the Sabbath day." He said "sabbath day" :he was talking bout the Jewish feast days--also called sabbath's. And The Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come, it has always pointed back to creation itself and to God as that creator "Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. It was the ordinances and sacrifices that were a shadow of things to come.

om 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Don't know how that connects to the Sabbath.

eb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus never spoke of any other day of rest. We rest in Jesus works now, not our own. This does not in any way do away with a commandment of God written by His own hand on stone. ​

You’re way off. You’re so far from the truth I’m not even going to address this.

 

[blackhead]

Yes--exactly---the Catholic church abolished the 7th day Sabbath--Jesus did not. What God has set aside as Holy no man can set aside or replace. It is God that makes anything Holy, man can not make anything Holy. What God has written with His hand on stone, no man can erase.

The Early Church Fathers were not Roman Catholic. It may be a Roman Catholic website that listed the quotes but the ECF were not Roman Catholic.

The 10 Commandments were written on stone as part of the old covenant with the children of Israel. Again under the new covenant gentiles aren’t required to keep the law, see: Acts of the Apostles 15.

 

[ace of hearts]

LOL! I thought that the article had the fact that when the white's came in--Catholic missionaries and heard about Maniilaq, they thought it was Sunday. They were the ones that originally found out about him. Then they discovered it was the 7th day Sabbath--so the story did not originate with us. When we heard about it, we send some missionaries over.



And your prove?

Then you must be trying to prove sabbath obligation thru pagan practices if Maniilaq wasn't a Christian.

 

[ace of hearts]

Please reveal.

Reveal what?

 

[ace of hearts]

All Jewish festive days were called sabbaths--but there is only one The Sabbath day.





Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The only handwritten ordinances were those that Moses wrote on scrolls as dictated by God---the 10 commandments were written by the hand of God on stone -- you can nail paper to a cross, you can't stone. Paper is temporary, stone is permanent, the ordinances were kept outside the Ark, the 10 on stone were kept inside the Ark, the Ark represented the throne of God.

Without the actual stone tablets the best anyone can do is trust that Moses is telling the truth. Why doesn't Paul get the same respect? Why doesn't other NT authors and Characters (esp Jesus) also get it?

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

This invalidates your argument on every level.

Yes--exactly---the Catholic church abolished the 7th day Sabbath--Jesus did not. What God has set aside as Holy no man can set aside or replace. It is God that makes anything Holy, man can not make anything Holy. What God has written with His hand on stone, no man can erase.

How does Hosea indicate man would do this? I read that God would.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul did not say "or of the Sabbath day." He said "sabbath day" :he was talking bout the Jewish feast days--also called sabbath's. And The Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come, it has always pointed back to creation itself and to God as that creator "Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. It was the ordinances and sacrifices that were a shadow of things to come.

Is the 7th day sabbath a holy day? Yes or no.

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Don't know how that connects to the Sabbath.

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus never spoke of any other day of rest. We rest in Jesus works now, not our own. This does not in any way do away with a commandment of God written by His own hand on stone. ​

The prophets do.

 

[mmksparbud]

You’re way off. You’re so far from the truth I’m not even going to address this.

OK---there will come a day when we all, will find out "God's truth" rather than our own conveniences.

 

[mmksparbud]

Then you must be trying to prove sabbath obligation thru pagan practices if Maniilaq wasn't a Christian.

God speaks to everyone. He called God the Grandfather. He taught his people Christian principals. He never got the chance to hear about Jesus, this was before any white man arrived and he was going against his whole village and culture to obey.

 

[mmksparbud]

Reveal what?

I quoted what---

It's very interesting what is accepted and what is rejected when it comes to support of the sabbath. The claim of the RCC is a false claim as secular (non Scriptural) will easily reveal.

 

[mmksparbud]

Without the actual stone tablets the best anyone can do is trust that Moses is telling the truth. Why doesn't Paul get the same respect? Why doesn't other NT authors and Characters (esp Jesus) also get it?This invalidates your argument on every level.How does Hosea indicate man would do this? I read that God would.Is the 7th day sabbath a holy day? Yes or no.The prophets do.

So you deny that the bible is the inspired word of God?
They all get the same respect. And Jesus is the one that wrote the 10 commandment and never once did He say not to keep them, nor that the Sabbath day had been changed. And no NT author said that the day had been changed---there are offers out there that total to about a million dollars for anyone that can show a text stating so---no one has been able to show one.

This invalidates your argument on every level.

That's the trouble--people stop reading there---continue---
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Is the 7th day sabbath a holy day? Yes or no.

God said so---who is man to say otherwise?

The prophets do.

Please quote those prophets and what they said.

 

[Dkh587]

The Sabbath(the 7th day) is a commanded day of rest

We are to worship every day, but we are to rest on the 7th day(the Sabbath)

This is what Jesus and the Apostles lived and taught.

 

[NeedyFollower]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshiping on Sunday.

For me anyway , John 4:23 answers it quite clearly. To be put in context , the Samaritan woman was saying that they worshiped God on a certain mountain according to the traditions of their fathers ..Mt Girizim . And the jews worshiped at the temple in Jerusalem ..then Jesus spoke truth ..But the hour is coming and NOW is when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. For God is a spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth ...in other words, it is no longer about a place and since God is eternal , it is no longer about a time. Let me ask you this ...when and where did Christ worship ? He taught at both the synagogue and the temple ...but where did he worship ? Everywhere . And when ? His life was a life of worship ...you may gather any day of the week and every day of the week but worship is a way of life ...in a spirit of humility , thanksgiving , truth , etc.

 

[mmksparbud]

For me anyway , John 4:23 answers it quite clearly. To be put in context , the Samaritan woman was saying that they worshiped God on a certain mountain according to the traditions of their fathers ..Mt Girizim . And the jews worshiped at the temple in Jerusalem ..then Jesus spoke truth ..But the hour is coming and NOW is when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. For God is a spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth ...in other words, it is no longer about a place and since God is eternal , it is no longer about a time. Let me ask you this ...when and where did Christ worship ? He taught at both the synagogue and the temple ...but where did he worship ? Everywhere . And when ? His life was a life of worship ...you may gather any day of the week and every day of the week but worship is a way of life ...in a spirit of humility , thanksgiving , truth , etc.

And just exactly what do you think Jesus and the disciples and all other Jews did in the Temple???
Jesus taught both in the synagogue and Temple--the synagogue was the place for schooling, the Temple was for worship. It was where the Most Holy place was, where the Holy Place was, where the people met for worship and for tithe paying---and they met every Sabbath as well as on the other Sabbath days and for the daily sacrifices.

"The Mishnah(1) describes the educational process for a young Jewish boy in Jesus' time.

At five years old [one is fit] for the Scripture, at ten years the Mishnah (oral Torah, interpretations) at thirteen for the fulfilling of the commandments, at fifteen the Talmud (making Rabbinic interpretations), at eighteen the bride-chamber, at twenty pursuing a vocation, at thirty for authority (able to teach others)This clearly describes the exceptional student, for very few would become teachers but indicates the centrality of Scripture in the education in Galilee...
Schools were associated with the local synagogue in first century Galilee. Apparently each community would hire a teacher (respectfully called "rabbi") for the school. While this teacher was responsible for the education of the village he had no special authority in the synagogue itself. Children began their study at age 4-5 in Beth Sefer (elementary school). Most scholars believe both boys and girls attended the class in the synagogue. The teaching focused primarily on the Torah, emphasizing both reading and writing Scripture. Large portions were memorized and it is likely that many students knew the entire Torah by memory by the time this level of education was finished."
Rabbi and Talmidim

It is your addition the words of Jesus that says there is no longer a time for worship--Jesus did not say that. He expected the Sabbath to still be kept after His resurrection. Jesus foretold the destruction of the temple, which wasn't for another 70 years.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

There will always be a Sabbath day.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[klutedavid]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.

The nation of Israel practiced the Sabbath because it was their national law. The Gentile nations were never given a national Sabbath law, so it was impossible for a Gentile to obey the Sabbath.

Gentiles are not under the law and that includes the national Sabbath law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.

The many articles at Grace Community International had helped me to understand the covenants and which laws we should obey.

I would start with this article here:

The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International

Note: It is important to think of the covenants as if they were like contracts that one would agree to when buying a house. If you did not like the contract from the seller of the house, you could ask to make some changes. If they agree and make a new contract, certain things could remain the same from the old contract along with some new changes within the new contract.

Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed.
That verse is a big one for me.

As for the Sabbath:
I believe Colossians 2:14-17 says that these ordinances were nailed to the cross and we are not to judge according to Sabbaths, etc.

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't know about anyone else, but I worship every day.
As for resting: I haven't got a job, I do voluntary work, which involves one shift a week, occasionally more. When I start in my 2nd area of voluntary work soon, that will involve one shift a week too - apart from training, and occasional social meetings.

Sunday, Resurrection day, is the day that Christians have chosen to meet together for corporate worship, fellowship, encouragement and support to remember when the Son of God was raised from the dead. I attend these gatherings, but don't only worship on one day a week.

 

[ace of hearts]

I quoted what---

If you quoted it there's no need to reveal anything. If I provide any Scripture of historical records you'll simply ignore or claim they're inaccurate/false.

 

[ace of hearts]

So you deny that the bible is the inspired word of God?

So believing Romans seems to be proof that I don't believe the word of God.In case you make a comment about Paul, let me include the gospels of Luke and John.

They all get the same respect. And Jesus is the one that wrote the 10 commandment and never once did He say not to keep them, nor that the Sabbath day had been changed. And no NT author said that the day had been changed---there are offers out there that total to about a million dollars for anyone that can show a text stating so---no one has been able to show one.

If the Scripture is true, the following verse proves Jesus didn't write the 10 commandments -

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

More evidence is found in John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I'll also add:

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

That's the trouble--people stop reading there---continue---
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So continue to read Romans at least thru chapter 8.

God said so---who is man to say otherwise?



Please quote those prophets and what they said.

Even if I quote Moses you'll throw it out. NTL here's a good one -

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

 

[ace of hearts]

The Sabbath(the 7th day) is a commanded day of rest

We are to worship every day, but we are to rest on the 7th day(the Sabbath)

This is what Jesus and the Apostles lived and taught.

Please post any Scripture the Apostles lived and taught obligation to the law, specifically the sabbath.

 

[bekkilyn]

 

[Strong in Him]

The Sabbath(the 7th day) is a commanded day of rest

We are to worship every day, but we are to rest on the 7th day(the Sabbath)

This is what Jesus and the Apostles lived and taught.

1. Jesus didn't teach that his followers - and especially his Gentile followers - had to keep the Sabbath.

2. Maybe you could tell me exactly how I'm supposed to keep the Sabbath; what should I do?
Rest from my work? I don't have a job. I do voluntary work to help others, and even the Pharisees helped people on the Sabbath.
Sit around every Saturday doing nothing? Could do; but as I don't work and could do that all day from Tues-Thurs, how would that be any different?
Worship God? I do that every day, so how is it more special on a Sabbath day - especially one that we have not been commanded to keep?