What's on your mind?

[DZoolander]

I had an interesting thought today (interesting to me anyway) so I'll share...

There's a very loose and difficult to understand concept in psychology called "lack of introspection" that sounds rather benign for what it actually describes. Most people have heard the old adage "if you think you're crazy...you aren't"...and it comes from this concept. I've had very close personal relationships with several people with rather severe mental health problems so I'll try to describe it as best I can.

It is a delusional belief which the person experiencing cannot attribute to the correct source. No amount of arguing, reasoning, or pleading will change this. The person experiencing the delusion will always incorrectly attribute it to the wrong source. Sounds simple, right? Yet it's hard to explain without experiencing. Here's an example...

A person hears voices in their head. To them...they appear real and very frightening, even threatening or mocking. They come to the conclusion that the voices are being projected into their mind by the CIA...despite the presence of rational, trusted, loved ones explaining to them that they are experiencing auditory hallucinations from a mental illness. The person experiencing them may have been the type who would have laughed at such ideas as nonsense prior to experiencing their delusions...it really makes no difference how rational or logical or reasonable they were prior to the experience. Even after treatment, the person may never accept that their hallucinations were indeed hallucinations....it is heartbreaking to experience, I can only promise you.

Well, today it occurred to me that certain illicit drugs can also produce this affect. Most commonly, methamphetamine induced insomnia can result in a lack of introspection....but it's unclear whether the lack of sleep or the drug itself is to blame. Drugs known to directly induce a lack of introspection are typically powerful hallucinogenics or psychotropics. Angel dust or PCP has a rather long history of stories about people jumping out of windows, mutilating themselves, or committing crimes that the person wouldn't have otherwise. People think LSD has a similar effect...but that seems mostly tied to anti-drug propaganda and less to reality. Ayahuasca is another powerful hallucinogen capable of commonly inducing a lack of introspection...but it seems to be less likely to be a negative effect, the kind typically associated with paranoia or other dangerous beliefs. Finally, salvia divinorum seems to have an immediate and profoundly strong effect that leads to an immediate lack of introspection. If anyone has no idea what I mean, simply Google for videos of someone smoking salvia (it's not illegal everywhere) and you'll see an example. I've seen a video where 30 seconds to 1 minute after inhaling it, the person climbed atop their couch and out a window in fear of whatever they were experiencing.

Anyways, my thought was that perhaps if this state of mind can be approached both from a mental condition and chemically, then it stands to reason that there is a rather specific part of the brain, or even a region of the brain, that is directly linked to our awareness of what is "real" and what is not. It would be a mistake to say that the hallucination itself is the cause, as many people have eaten "magic mushrooms" and never at any point mistakenly believed their hallucinations to be real. It would make more sense that a part of the brain directly makes these assessments (and therefore operates within certain parameters in the healthy human mind) and informs the rest of our thought process accordingly. That's not to say that this region correctly determines reality 100% of the time....it simply tells the rest of your brain "this is real...it's happening"....and under certain chemicals, conditions, or even circumstances it switches "on" or even "off" and cannot revert to normal functioning.

I thought this, and what it could mean if such a region were identified and could be "reset" chemically or otherwise. It could mean the difference between a lifetime of struggling with mental illness or being able to fix it, or even just cope with it better. I also wonder if it could be pharmacologically managed in a way that could benefit those who work in high stress situations like an emt or soldier and enhance their ability to "take in" the whole situation and reduce "tunnel vision".

Just a thought.

Interesting idea.

Gotta admit - my experience in this area is limited...so take whatever I say with a grain of salt...but I have a couple of initial reactions/thoughts to this.

I think MOST people have experience with one type of auditory "hallucination" (that being, hearing things that aren't really there) - and that would be the inner monologue within your head during the day. When I think - it's verbal. I can "hear" myself inside of my head. I'm talking to myself. I'm phrasing and parsing thoughts out in a more pure way than I'd allow to actually be spoken...and in a way...I "hear" myself do it.

But - while I may "hear" it - there's a difference in qualia between what I "hear" there vs. say the sounds I hear my son making right now as he talks to the video game he's playing. There's no fluctuation in volume in my inner monologue. I can't really force myself to think more softly, more loudly, etc. It's essentially a constant volume. There's also a difference I can sense in where the sound is being received from. It doesn't *feel* like it's coming from my ears. There's no fluctuation in volume, there's no sense of direction of where it's coming from other than front/center/etc.

So, all of that together, I can tell that it's not the same thing as a "real" sound.

That being said - I've never been faced with a situation where I needed to parse out and figure out what sounds might be "real" vs. what might be generated from myself and an illusion. I've never had to try and reconcile which "real" sound fit into a coherent understanding of the world and which one might just be my mind playing tricks on me. The delineation between "real/external" sounds and inner sounds has always been so marked and profound that it's never been a question.

Then we move on to visual hallucinations. That I really have limited experience with. Probably the closest I can come up with are the few times I've woken up at night and saw something that wasn't legit there. Like I remember as a kid one time waking up, opening my eyes in the middle of the night, and swearing I saw my dad standing in the hallway getting something out of a cabinet. I blinked once or twice - and voila - he was gone. I'm 99% sure that it was a figment of my imagination.

Now - that qualia of that vision did NOT differ in what's legit vs. what's self-generated like the auditory example above. I really did spend like 4-5 minutes trying to reconcile what I thought I saw with what appeared to actually be "real" after it happened. And heck - the discord caused by trying to reconcile what was "real" vs "imagined" was so profound that I still remember it 30 years later.

So, I don't know what it must be like for someone who may authentically actually SEE something that appears real in a similar way on a regular basis. I don't know if it's that my self-reflection is "good" or that I've never just been faced with the same types of scenarios that these people are. I don't see and hear a lot of self-generated things in a way that appears authentic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Interesting idea.

Gotta admit - my experience in this area is limited...so take whatever I say with a grain of salt...but I have a couple of initial reactions/thoughts to this.

I think MOST people have experience with one type of auditory "hallucination" (that being, hearing things that aren't really there) - and that would be the inner monologue within your head during the day. When I think - it's verbal. I can "hear" myself inside of my head. I'm talking to myself. I'm phrasing and parsing thoughts out in a more pure way than I'd allow to actually be spoken...and in a way...I "hear" myself do it.

But - while I may "hear" it - there's a difference in qualia between what I "hear" there vs. say the sounds I hear my son making right now as he talks to the video game he's playing. There's no fluctuation in volume in my inner monologue. I can't really force myself to think more softly, more loudly, etc. It's essentially a constant volume. There's also a difference I can sense in where the sound is being received from. It doesn't *feel* like it's coming from my ears. There's no fluctuation in volume, there's no sense of direction of where it's coming from other than front/center/etc.

So, all of that together, I can tell that it's not the same thing as a "real" sound.

That being said - I've never been faced with a situation where I needed to parse out and figure out what sounds might be "real" vs. what might be generated from myself and an illusion. I've never had to try and reconcile which "real" sound fit into a coherent understanding of the world and which one might just be my mind playing tricks on me. The delineation between "real/external" sounds and inner sounds has always been so marked and profound that it's never been a question.

Then we move on to visual hallucinations. That I really have limited experience with. Probably the closest I can come up with are the few times I've woken up at night and saw something that wasn't legit there. Like I remember as a kid one time waking up, opening my eyes in the middle of the night, and swearing I saw my dad standing in the hallway getting something out of a cabinet. I blinked once or twice - and voila - he was gone. I'm 99% sure that it was a figment of my imagination.

Now - that qualia of that vision did NOT differ in what's legit vs. what's self-generated like the auditory example above. I really did spend like 4-5 minutes trying to reconcile what I thought I saw with what appeared to actually be "real" after it happened. And heck - the discord caused by trying to reconcile what was "real" vs "imagined" was so profound that I still remember it 30 years later.

So, I don't know what it must be like for someone who may authentically actually SEE something that appears real in a similar way on a regular basis. I don't know if it's that my self-reflection is "good" or that I've never just been faced with the same types of scenarios that these people are. I don't see and hear a lot of self-generated things in a way that appears authentic.

I think when it comes to hypnogogic auditory hallucinations...most people have them infrequently enough to make that immediate "what was that?!" assessment....then slowly begin to doubt the initial assessment that convinced us.

That's what I always found interesting/surprising about those who I've known who smoked salvia or the videos I've seen. They know what they just did...it's not as if they forgot they smoked a powerful hallucinogen. Yet their thoughts don't seem to follow the same pattern of most people on most hallucinogens.

Which I imagine is something like...

1. I just took this drug.
2. These things I'm experiencing aren't real.
3. It's ok, I'll just have fun with it.

Instead it's something like...

1. I just smoked salvia.
2. The floor is now lava.
3. Oh no...if I touch the floor I'll die.

It's an almost immediate lack of introspection. The thing I thought about after writing that last night was that there has long been a speculative link between drug use and mental health problems like bipolar disorder or schizoaffective disorders. Obviously, they've never been able to find a link....but there are enough cases of people who used some drug, particularly psychotropic, that developed the onset of their condition immediately or shortly after using that it seems to defy statistical coincidence.

Perhaps it triggers the initial episode in those with the condition through either the stimulation or suppression of this particular hypothetical brain region.

 

[Dave-W]

Just finished replying to a post discussing a Hebrew word used in different ways in Genesis. In Gen. 2 and 3 it is translated “naked” for Adam and Eve; and “crafty” for the serpent. Elsewhere in the OT it is translated undefended or open.

Trying to figure out how to convey to the poster the reason the same word can have varied meanings in Hebrew, and the fact that they are all connected in some way. It requires leaving the western linear mindset behind.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Christmas music makes me happy

 

[Saricharity]

Cleaning the house is like shovelling snow in a blizzard. Either my house is too small or there are too many people making messes and not picking up. AHHH! What am I doing wrong? My mother kept house for 11 people...I keep house for 4 right now...what the heck am I doing wrong?
I am slowly going crazy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, switch.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Today's episode of my podcast what's the 50th Dash I'm super stoked about it. We (a pastor friend and myself) looked at questions of purgatory, if Mary was a perpetual virgin, and if sex is only for procreation.

 

[Toro]

The sun is finally shining again! And it's not snowing!

 

[Bumble Bee]

It’s a short week this week. Thank goodness!

 

[Toro]

I want nachos.

 

[Bumble Bee]

The baby’s funeral is tomorrow. I can’t imag what that poor mama is going through.

 

[Toro]

I have two words for you all.


GO TEXANS!!!!

 

[Bumble Bee]

The in laws will be home tomorrow. No more quiet family of three for a while Hopefully husband finds work soon.

 

[Swan7]

And back home from workout. I’m beat!

 

[Toro]

And back home from workout. I’m beat!

Dont say that... people will think I'm an angry bad husband.

 

[Swan7]

Dont say that... people will think I'm an angry bad husband.

Lol of course you’re not!

 

[Bumble Bee]

I’m not a fan of mornings.

 

[Bumble Bee]

My little man won’t nap today.

 

[Toro]

My little man won’t nap today.

Tell him to nap or you will kill Santa Clause... slowly....

 

[Bumble Bee]

He isn’t old enough to know about Santa yet lol.

 

[Toro]

He isn’t old enough to know about Santa yet lol.

He knows.....



They all know...