Trump: Prince May Be Guilty, but US Stands by Saudis

[cow451]

"The United States believes in the importance of a free and independent press, and as such, we condemn the political assassination of Jamal Khashoggi as an attempt to stifle and intimidate the press."

Is Donald so afraid of offending the Saudi royalty that he can't even say that? He doesn't have to mean it -- certainly nobody expects him to -- but can't he at least say it?

Sheesh, I remember when you people got your knickers in a twist over Obama (literally) bowing to a Saudi -- Now your great leader has all but (figuratively) groveled at their feet.

But he got to touch that shiny thing.

 

[TLK Valentine]

But he got to touch that shiny thing.

It would seem the Saudis are too powerful for Donald to offend...

Either he's finally embracing Political Correctness, or he simply knows his place... beneath them.

 

[disciple Clint]

You didn't provide any facts. You provided some links to a website.

What you didn't do: You didn't present any bullets of anything Saudi Arabia has done for the US.

Where, for instance, have they ever captured and prosecuted anyone who was planning a terrorist act against the US or anywhere in the West? When have they ever provided intelligence? When have they ever been involved in anti-terrorist police or military activity in the West?

Do you see Saudi police working with Western police forces as consultants?

After 9/11, did you see the Saudis involved in tracking down the terrorist connections?

What does Saudi Arabia do to fight the terrorism that they engender around the world?

I would not be able to answer those questions because they ask for classified facts.

 

[disciple Clint]

They bought his yacht when he needed to raise cash.

Now if they paid far more for it than it was worth then we have something otherwise its just a business transaction. Maybe they got a real good deal, who knows.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Now if they paid far more for it than it was worth then we have something otherwise its just a business transaction. Maybe they got a real good deal, who knows.

With Donald as president, they can literally get away with murder.

Can't ask for a better deal than that.

 

[jgarden]

Trump: Prince May Be Guilty, but US Stands by Saudi

Trump and "the deplorables" never tire of making the claim that with him as President, the rest of the world respects us!

For an American ally to entice a US resident and internationally respected journalist into their embassy, for the sole purpose of murdering him and cutting up the body, is hardly a sign of respect!

 

[disciple Clint]

We have been discussing point and counter point about what should be done about the Khashoggi murder. All of our attention is focused on this one event. Today I read an article in my newspaper that said 86,000 children under the age of 5 had died of starvation in Yemen. Did I say or do anything about that as it was happening? Did I demand that our President or our nation or anyone else do anything to stop it? Did we see much in the way of national coverage about it? Someone made a pointed comment about one of my posts asking if one life was important. Another posted asking how many people would have to die for it to be important to me. We let our media focus our attention on one person while thousands die. Every life is important should we not be doing all we can to save as many as possible?

Yemen: 85,000 children under 5 dead may have died from starvation - CNN

 

[TLK Valentine]

We have been discussing point and counter point about what should be done about the Khashoggi murder. All of our attention is focused on this one event.

Distraction in 5...4...3...

Today I read an article in my newspaper that said 86,000 children under the age of 5 had died of starvation in Yemen.

Aww... you jumped the gun!

 

[RDKirk]

I would not be able to answer those questions because they ask for classified facts.

And yet, we see German police working with American police against Islamic terrorism. We see French police working with American police. We even see Russian police working with American police against Islamic terrorism. That doesn't seem to be so classified.

 

[disciple Clint]

Distraction in 5...4...3...




Aww... you jumped the gun!

So the death of 86,000 children is nothing but a distraction to you?

 

[disciple Clint]

And yet, we see German police working with American police against Islamic terrorism. We see French police working with American police. We even see Russian police working with American police against Islamic terrorism. That doesn't seem to be so classified.

The U.S.-Saudi Arabia counterterrorism relationship

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So the death of 86,000 children is nothing but a distraction to you?

You’re engaging in whataboutism, which is a dishonest means means of redirecting the conversation away from the topic, instead of the addressing the topic.

It’s usually pretty transparent...

 

[disciple Clint]

You’re engaging in whataboutism, which is a dishonest means means of redirecting the conversation away from the topic, instead of the addressing the topic.

It’s usually pretty transparent...

And I thought I was talking about people and how they are all important but lets just narrow our view to one person then if you like, what makes him more important than 86,000 people seems to only be the Trump blame game.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

When a US ally uses its embassies as kill sites it is international. Last time I checked Saudi has both an embassies and us residents in the US.

The inviolability of embassies and consulates is a principle rooted in centuries of international law. The consulate in question was in Turkey, not the US. What are the Turks doing about it?

Though thanks for once again confirming that the pro-life stops at birth.

Yes, because pro-life means supporting policies foment conflict between nations rather than peace.

You left out the part where he was working for an American company located in the United States.

Because I honestly don't see how it's important.

Would it ruin our good relations if our president expressed at least a mild disapproval? Surely he can fake at least that much, even over a hated journalist...

...good enough for me. Were you hoping he'd lob a few cruise missiles as well?

You’re engaging in whataboutism, which is a dishonest means means of redirecting the conversation away from the topic, instead of the addressing the topic.

It's not really whataboutism because it's an atrocity with the same perpetrator - the Saudi government. There are better reasons to criticize Saudi Arabia, and there's a good case for ceasing US support for Saudi operations in Yemen - for reasons that have nothing to do with Khashoggi.

 

[Verv]

There is a complex history with why we ended up allied with the Saudis. I do not really know it. Indeed, I wither away on this topic very often because it seems that whatever led us up to this point was largely a mistake.

Yet, you do not play the hand you want to have; you play the hand that you were dealt.

The bottom line is that this is an assassination/murder/killing/event, whatever you want to call it, that happened on foreign soil to a non-citizen who is a wealthy elite (or sub-elite) that had close connections and relationships with other Saudi elites. It's likely that he had a patron more powerful than himself that did this to him...

What can we really do, now?

Do we abandon an alliance with one of our only friends in the region -- oh, yes, they are bad guys, but what about the realpolitik behind all this? What about real life considerations?

At best, we can just contemplate backing up slowly from the Saudis. Anything else would be rash and unjustifiable.

 

[kiwimac]

I'll say it more explicitly: Saudi national killed by the Saudi government in a Saudi consulate. That sounds like an internal affair. The US economy benefits from good relations with Saudi Arabia; ought we to ruin it over this?

Yes, yes you should. Either a human being is important full stop or you can stop pretending to be concerned about abortion.

 

[Nithavela]

We have been discussing point and counter point about what should be done about the Khashoggi murder. All of our attention is focused on this one event. Today I read an article in my newspaper that said 86,000 children under the age of 5 had died of starvation in Yemen. Did I say or do anything about that as it was happening? Did I demand that our President or our nation or anyone else do anything to stop it? Did we see much in the way of national coverage about it? Someone made a pointed comment about one of my posts asking if one life was important. Another posted asking how many people would have to die for it to be important to me. We let our media focus our attention on one person while thousands die. Every life is important should we not be doing all we can to save as many as possible?

Yemen: 85,000 children under 5 dead may have died from starvation - CNN

Red herring

 

[Nithavela]

And I thought I was talking about people and how they are all important but lets just narrow our view to one person then if you like, what makes him more important than 86,000 people seems to only be the Trump blame game.

In this thread we are only talking about Kashoggi. We are not talking about the dying children of yemen, or the implications of the south africa land grab, or the emu war, or the boxer rebellion.

Just Kashoggi.

 

[Nithavela]

The inviolability of embassies and consulates is a principle rooted in centuries of international law. The consulate in question was in Turkey, not the US. What are the Turks doing about it?

Quite a lot, actually. For starters, they presented the actual evidence of the killing to the world, cooperating with lots of other countries, including the US. They also were the first to sharply rebuke Saudi Arabia in october because of it, while many countries took well into november and some countries still haven't said anything.

 

[Nithavela]

Trump on Khashoggi's Death: Maybe Blame the World

Good news everyone, we finally know who we should blame.