Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Righttruth]

You think that the Lord Jesus Christ covenant death on behalf of His people is preposterous presumption?? What are you think with such a statement?

Do you struggle to understand that when Jesus declared it is finished that He actually accomplished redemption on behalf of all the Father gave to Him.

John 15:
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

John 15:
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Yes..good verse. What do you think it is teaching as salvation cannot be lost once it is finished

 

[1stcenturylady]

@BCsenior and @Nayte

BC you are absolutely correct that when we come to Christ all our past sin is forgiven, but then you believe that we must then repent, sin, repent, sin, repent forever. That is what Nayte is wondering, and so would anyone. That is extreme Arminian. (I'm not even going to address the Calvinists who replied who believe our past, present and future sins are forgiven and we can do what we carnally want to do, but it just isn't prudent. - No, you would be damned!)

What is missing from your post is more emphasis on the Holy Spirit, a big oversight for one who is Charismatic, and what Nayte, to his favor, addressed! Yes, because we must be born again - the killing of the carnal man, and replaced by the Spirit-controlled spirit. It is the reason Jesus couldn't sin - the seed of the Father. And when we are born again, it is because the old man dies, and we are resurrected. This means we are given new desires loving righteousness that replaced the old desire to sin.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Therefore, a Spirit-filled Christian has the power to never sin again being "dead to sin" and "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 6:2, Romans 8:9 and 1 John 2:1a, and repentance need only happen once, not over and over, Acts 2:38-39. 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian, full stop. Read verses 8 and 9 together. Verse 8 is a Gnostic (according to the context of the whole epistle which is against Gnosticism.) This is why Paul warned not to willfully sin after receiving the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 10:26-39.

Does this mean we are perfect? No. The fruit of the Spirit must grow and be pruned here and there John 15. And notice that 1 John 1:7 talks of one walking in the Spirit, and yet the blood of Jesus is still cleansing from all sin. How can we be sinning while walking in the Spirit? Does the Spirit lead us into sin? No! But remember, the pruning process is still going on regarding bearing fruit of (our first) repentance. The Spirit continually leads us away from temptations.

What we actually need to do is one of two things. 1. Repent and finally receive the Holy Spirit. (which I did after 30 years of going to church without the Spirit!) 2. Do not quench the Spirit. It is all about the Spirit. The absence of slavery to sin is the test whether one has Him, or not. John 8:34-36

 

[BCsenior]

Yes.. (John 15:1+) good verse. What do you think it is teaching as salvation cannot be lost once it is finished

You don't mean once it is finished,
but once it is given/granted ... right?
Yes, once salvation is finished (at the end of one's life) it most definitely cannot be lost.
But, before one dies, it most surely can be lost.
(Reference: the whole of the NT)

 

[BCsenior]

@BCsenior and @NayteBC
What is missing from your post is more emphasis on the Holy Spirit ...

It is with my most profound regret that
I cannot put all spiritual Truth in every post.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It is with my most profound regret that
I cannot put all spiritual Truth in every post.

Don't you see your post is on the need to keep confessing sin that you will be committing? That is extreme Arminianism, and error. Why should we have to confess sin we are not committing? That is a lack of understanding of the power of the Holy Spirit to keep you from sin. But it is better than the Calvinist belief of automatic forgiveness of present and future sins, which turns the grace of God into lasciviousness. Jude 1:4

 

[BCsenior]

Don't you see your post is on the need to keep confessing sin that you will be committing? That is extreme Arminianism, and error.

Please refer to these verses written to believers:
1 John 1:7-9
and
2 Corinthians 7:8-10 "godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation"

Now to the valid point of the impossibility
of keeping up with the repenting, it is
one's heart attitude before the Lord
that is of extreme importance!
Sorrow over sin, sorrow over displeasing Father God
and Jesus, desiring to confess/repent, etc.

 

[Oldmantook]

I think scripture speaks for itself. You lose that argument, big time.

Care to elaborate or just submit your opinion without any elaboration or scriptural backing?

 

[SkyWriting]

Care to elaborate or just submit your opinion without any elaboration or scriptural backing?

There are no hints of partial salvation.
Thanks for the invitation to go over it again.


Psalm 51:2
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!

Matthew 23:26
You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Psalm 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Acts 10:15
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

James 4:8
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Isaiah 1:16
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Psalm 119:1-176
Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, who also do no wrong, but walk in his ways! You have commanded your precepts to be kept diligently. Oh that my ways may be steadfast in keeping your statutes! ...

Leviticus 10:10
You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean,

 

[Oldmantook]

There are no hints of partial salvation.
Thanks for the invitation to go over it again.


Psalm 51:2
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!

Matthew 23:26
You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Psalm 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Acts 10:15
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

James 4:8
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Isaiah 1:16
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Psalm 119:1-176
Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, who also do no wrong, but walk in his ways! You have commanded your precepts to be kept diligently. Oh that my ways may be steadfast in keeping your statutes! ...

Leviticus 10:10
You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean,

You ignore that salvation in the NT is described in past, present and future tenses. We have obtained salvation, we presently have salvation and we will have salvation - IF certain conditions are met - namely ongoing belief and ongoing obedience. I refer you to Rom 8:13.

 

[SkyWriting]

You ignore that salvation in the NT is described in past, present and future tenses. We have obtained salvation, we presently have salvation and we will have salvation - IF certain conditions are met - namely ongoing belief and ongoing obedience. I refer you to Rom 8:13.

So you can ignore my references. I can't stop that.

100 Bible Verses about Sin - DailyVerses.net

 

[usexpat97]

What about sins committed after Jesus' death on the cross?

 

[Oldmantook]

So you can ignore my references. I can't stop that.

100 Bible Verses about Sin - DailyVerses.net

You can stop it if you paid any attention to Rom 8:13 which contradicts your slew of verses. I can wait for your interpretation of that verse if you like.

 

[BCsenior]

There are no hints of partial salvation.

And that list proves no partial salvation?
Sorry, you'll have to go back to kindergarden
and begin your education all over again!
May I bless you by sending you a NT?
Please!

 

[Oldmantook]

You might want to do a deeper study of that verse, even though your conclusion might be right Ro. 3;25 does not support it look at the NIV translation as an example: Ro.3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
The sins "before hand" are not your past sins, but sins prior to the cross being contrasted with sins after the cross which are "punished" (disciplined). These "sins" past over were sins committed by forgiven individuals repenting and seeking God's forgiveness. A lot more can be said in support of that interpretation.

Thanks for your observation. My question though is how can the "sins past over' were forgiven when the cross was not yet instituted? In other words, before the cross, there was no blood of Jesus to propitiate for sin. So how can those past sins said to be forgiven through His blood?

 

[Oldmantook]

And that list proves no partial salvation?
Sorry, you'll have to go back to kindergarden
and begin your education all over again!
May I bless you by sending you a NT?
Please!

mistaken reply, apology

 

[SkyWriting]

And that list proves no partial salvation?
Sorry, you'll have to go back to kindergarden
and begin your education all over again!
May I bless you by sending you a NT?
Please!

I said it fails to hint.
I'd never claim any proof of anything.
78 Bible Verses about Salvation - DailyVerses.net

Matthew 5:19
So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Galatians 5:3
Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.

James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body.

2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble,

Jude 1:24
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy--

New Living Translation
"Come now, let's settle this," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson, I will make them as white as wool.

King James Bible
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Darby Bible Translation
Come now, let us reason together, saith Jehovah: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

World English Bible
"Come now, and let us reason together," says Yahweh: "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow. Though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Young's Literal Translation
Come, I pray you, and we reason, saith Jehovah, If your sins are as scarlet, as snow they shall be white, If they are red as crimson, as wool they shall be!


New International Version
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

New Living Translation
For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God's laws.

English Standard Version
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Berean Study Bible
Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Berean Literal Bible
For whoever shall keep the whole Law, but shall stumble in one point, he has become guilty of all.

New American Standard Bible
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

King James Bible
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Christian Standard Bible
For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

Contemporary English Version
If you obey every law except one, you are still guilty of breaking them all.

Good News Translation
Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

International Standard Version
For whoever keeps the whole Law but fails in one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

NET Bible
For the one who obeys the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

New Heart English Bible
For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For whoever keeps the whole Written Law and slips in one thing, he is condemned by the entire Law.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.

New American Standard 1977
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

[SkyWriting]

Thanks for your observation. My question though is how can the "sins past over' were forgiven when the cross was not yet instituted? In other words, before the cross, there was no blood of Jesus to propitiate for sin. So how can those past sins said to be forgiven through His blood?

God does not exist in time. So there are no time-clock problems from His end.
People have their brains melting over these timing issues.
Salvation, answered prayer, time in hell, the 2nd comming, pre-trib, post trib, mid trib, never ends for those worried about timing.

 

[Oldmantook]

God does not exist in time. So there are no time-clock problems from His end.
People have their brains melting over these timing issues.
Salvation, answered prayer, time in hell, the 2nd comming, pre-trib, post trib, mid trib, never ends for those worried about timing.

The verse plainly states that the propitiation of Jesus' blood applies to our past sins only. God does not exist in time but our sins certainly do, so your logic is fallacious.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Please refer to these verses written to believers:
1 John 1:7-9
and
2 Corinthians 7:8-10 "godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation"

Now to the valid point of the impossibility
of keeping up with the repenting, it is
one's heart attitude before the Lord
that is of extreme importance!
Sorrow over sin, sorrow over displeasing Father God
and Jesus, desiring to confess/repent, etc.

1 John 1:7 is a believer. They are Spirit-filled and being lead away from sin, never into it.

1 John 1:8 is NOT a believer. They are a Gnostic who does not believe Jesus came in the flesh, only spirit, and only sins of the spirit are actually sins. They DO NOT count sins of the flesh as sins, they walk in darkness, but say they have relationship with God. 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are Gnostics. They know about Jesus, but believe a false doctrine about Him. 1 John 4:1-3

1 John 1:9 is what that person must do to become Spirit-filled and no longer sin. They are cleansed from ALL sin, including the desire to sin.

I take it, this concept is new to you, and 1 John 3:9 is not to be believed, let alone understood and lived.