If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

[ClementofA]

Is this supposed to make some kind of sense?

What didn't you understand?

There is an infinite difference between a God who will torture a being for infinite eons and a God who won't. Even a trillion years of tortures is less than a drop in the ocean compared to eternity. The infinite torturer is infinitely more monstrous than the temporary torturer. So the infinite torturer is infinitely more monstrous than those tortures caused by Satan, Hitler & Stalin combined.

Would "Love Omnipotent" destroy the inhabitants of the world men, women, children, infants by a flood?

Did the children who were killed go straight to heaven forever with no possibility of ever going to a (make belief) endless hell? Then wouldn't they be the lucky winners of God's salvation by luck lottery? And wouldn't salvation be a matter of luck? Just like in Calvinistic Double Predestination?

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[thesunisout]

Not according to the standard which God Himself gave us - lex talionis punishment, which means that the punishment fits the crime.

What sin (crime) could any man or woman commit that requires (deserves) eternal torture?

The crime is, transgressing the commandment of a Holy God. This merits eternal punishment

 

[EzekielsWheels]

Who are we to judge God?

 

[ClementofA]

Who are we to judge God?

See the OP. The topic is not scriptural interpretation opinions or assumptions, but logical arguments. That being said, however, what judgments about God have you made?

Have you judged that:

1. God exists
2. God is good
3. God is love

"It is simply incoherent to concurrently maintain that you believe God is good but that you also cannot judge God."

Have you judged that:

1. God is the God of Islam, or
2. God is the God of Buddha, or
3. God is the God of the Lord & Savior of all, Jesus Christ

Have you judged that:

1. God is a miracle worker today, or
2. God retired from working miracles

Have you judged that God is:

1. a puppet master & we are all just His puppet toys He plays with like a child with dolls who keeps & loves some but others throws in the trash or fire forever, or,
2. a lover who grants humans libertarian free will to choose to love Him back

Have you judged that God is the:

1. savior of all human beings, or the
2. annihilator for eternity of many, or the
3. torturer for eternity of many

What judgments about God have you made? Is it possible you are wrong about any of them? Have you ever been wrong about them or anything else?

Have you judged that Love Omnipotent is a torturer of billions for eternity, when in truth He will actually become "all in all"? What would that say about - your - judgment of God? Would God be pleased that you characterized Him as a monster?

Lk.12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? (- Jesus)

1 Cor. 2:15a But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...

 

[FineLinen]

The crime is, transgressing the commandment of a Holy God. This merits eternal punishment

Dear Sun: My friend you have no idea of what you speak! The fact is if you transgress in one single thing you are guilty of ALL. So in one single variance from the transgression of the commandment of a "Holy God" you friend are guilty of all.

The Holy God has a superior Plan!

"Through the disobedience of one, the polus "were made sinners" SO through the obedience of One (the Last Adam ) the polus are "made righteous."

The mass made sinners is the same mass made righteous! Every last transgressor of a Holy God.

He is the Source, the Guide, & the Goal of the all (the ta panta)

 

[thesunisout]

Dear Sun: My friend you have no idea of what you speak! The fact is if you transgress in one single thing you are guilty of ALL. So in one single variance from the transgression of the commandment of a "Holy God" you friend are guilty of all.

The Holy God has a superior Plan!

"Through the disobedience of one, the polus "were made sinners" SO through the obedience of One (the Last Adam ) the polus are "made righteous."

The mass made sinners is the same mass made righteous! Every last transgressor of a Holy God.

He is the Source, the Guide, & the Goal of the all (the ta panta)

Yes, you are correct; by breaking one commandment you have broken them all. That is the holiness of our God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

Jesus Christ came to Earth to offer man salvation, but not all men receive salvation. This is their fate:

Revelation 20:11-15

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[FineLinen]

Jesus Christ came to Earth to offer man salvation, but not all men receive salvation.

Dear Sun: Jesus Christ did NOT come to earth to offer man salvation! Jesus Christ is the reconciliation of all mankind. Our Father God is the Saviour of all mankind, not some of mankind, the radical pas of mankind. This is what we are commanded to teach>>>>

"God is [the] Saviour of all mankind, especially /malista those who believe/ trust in Him. Command this & teach this"

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Sun: The koine theion is the incense of Jehovah and is rooted in theioo which is Theos. The Lake of Fire is the incense of Jehovah rooted firmly in Theos. Make zero mistake: our God is consuming fire; the Limne of Theos is consuming fire in which every last element of sin and iniquity is consumed: every last rotten bit!

"He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

 

[FineLinen]

"Through the disobedience of one (Adam1), the polus "were made sinners"

SO

through the obedience of One (the Last Adam ) the polus are "made righteous."

The mass made sinners is the same mass made righteous! Every last transgressor of a Holy God.

He is the Source, the Guide, & the Goal of the all (the ta panta)

 

[Der Alte]

Dear Sun: Jesus Christ did NOT come to earth to offer man salvation! Jesus Christ is the reconciliation of all mankind. Our Father God is the Saviour of all mankind, not some of mankind, the radical pas of mankind. This is what we are commanded to teach>>>>
"God is [the] Saviour of all mankind, especially /malista those who believe/ trust in Him. Command this & teach this"

My Bible has 31,172 verses.

2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

 

[FineLinen]

My Bible has 31,172 verses.

2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

Dear Old S. Congratulations on your incredible math accounting!

How many verses are in the King James Bible

 

[thesunisout]

Dear Sun: The koine theion is the incense of Jehovah and is rooted in theioo which is Theos. The Lake of Fire is the incense of Jehovah rooted firmly in Theos. Make zero mistake: our God is consuming fire; the Limne of Theos is consuming fire in which every last element of sin and iniquity is consumed: every last rotten bit!

"He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

I am going to cut this short. Take care.

 

[FineLinen]

I am going to cut this short. Take care.

Dear Sun: I do trust the Father most glorious leads you & yours into the outer laminar spheres of His great glory.

From Him, through Him, for Him

 

[ClementofA]

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the 'final perfection' yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God." – V. Gelesnoff

Vladimir Michael Gelesnoff Memorial Part Two

 

[he-man]

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the 'final perfection' yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God." – V. Gelesnoff Vladimir Michael Gelesnoff Memorial Part Two

is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, ..., continually existing in opposition to God."

Do you know how ignorant that sounds? If a person could be tortured forever and continually existed in opposition to God they would have to be immortal and fire nor could anything else hurt them!

 

[Lazarus Short]

is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, ..., continually existing in opposition to God."

Do you know how ignorant that sounds? If a person could be tortured forever and continually existed in opposition to God they would have to be immortal and fire nor could anything else hurt them!

That is just the logical conclusion of the doctrine of endless punishment. Theories have consequences, and it is not merely an academic, ivory tower exercise, but a thing that affects real people, their faith and their outlook on God.

 

[he-man]

That is just the logical conclusion of the doctrine of endless punishment. Theories have consequences, and it is not merely an academic, ivory tower exercise, but a thing that affects real people, their faith and their outlook on God.

Your ivory tower just fell down. Only those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be given immortality.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Your ivory tower just fell down. Only those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be given immortality.

Happily, that is not the end of the story, although it looks like it. For the end of the story, see First Corinthians, chapter five.

 

[he-man]

Happily, that is not the end of the story, although it looks like it. For the end of the story, see First Corinthians, chapter five.

1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Deuteronomy 17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Why not quote the WHOLE chapter? All I see above is cherry-picking.