Nothing in scripture proves that either the πυρ το αιωνιον/pur to aiōnion in Matt 18:8 or Jud 7 is temporary. In Matt 18:8 people are thrown into pur to aiōnion. You certainly don't know where that is or whether it is temporary or eternal. In Jud 7 God sends down the pur to aiōnion from heaven you certainly don't know what happened to the fire after it destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The fact that the fire is no longer in Sodom and Gomorrah does not prove it was temporary.
The cities were still undergoing the penalty of the eonian fire in Jude's day:
Jude 7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 7, CLNT)
Jude 1:7 Interlinear: as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
Secondly, there is historical evidence the fire was still burning in Jude's day, which makes it eonian & finite, but not eternal:
"... that fire, with which those cities, and the inhabitants of it, were consumed; which, Philo the (k) Jew says, burnt till his time, and must be burning when Jude wrote this epistle..."
"(k) De Abrahamo, p. 370."
"...Charles notes on this that “the Gehenna valley here includes the adjacent country down to the Dead Sea. A subterranean fire was believed to exist under the Gehenna valley.” "
Jude 1:7 Commentaries: just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
"But what if Jude believed the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah had not been extinguished? What if he believed that the fires still burned in his day? Indeed, what if it were common knowledge that the fires of destruction still burned... An examination of the historical record would seem to indicate that this is precisely the case:
" "And in one day these populous cities became the tomb of their inhabitants, and the vast edifices of stone and timber became thin dust and ashes. And when the flames had consumed everything that was visible and that existed on the face of the earth, they proceeded to burn even the earth itself, penetrating into its lowest recesses, and destroying all the vivifying powers which existed within it so as to produce a complete and everlasting barrenness, so that it should never again be able to bear fruit, or to put forth any verdure; and to this very day it is scorched up. For the fire of the lightning is what is most difficult to extinguish, and creeps on pervading everything, and smouldering. And a most evident proof of this is to be found in what is seen to this day: for the smoke which is still emitted, and the sulphur which men dig up there, are a proof of the calamity which befell that country" (Philo, On Abraham 27)."
" "The length of this lake is five hundred and eighty furlongs, where it is extended as far as Zoar in Arabia; and its breadth is a hundred and fifty. The country of Sodom borders
upon it. It was of old a most happy land, both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities, although it be now all burnt up. It is related how, for the impiety of its inhabitants, it was burnt by lightning; in consequence of which there are still the remainders of that Divine fire, and the traces [or shadows] of the five cities are still to be seen, as well as the ashes growing in their fruits; which fruits have a color as if they were fit to be eaten, but if you pluck them with your hands, they dissolve into smoke and ashes. And thus what is related of this land of Sodom hath these marks of credibility which our very sight affords us." (Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, IV.8.4)."
" "The fire which burns beneath the ground and the stench render the inhabitants of the neighboring country sickly and very short lived" (Diodorus Siculus, Bibliotheca Historica, II.48)."
" "Lake Sirbonis [most historians agree that Strabo has confused Lake Sirbonis with the Dead Sea] is large; in fact some state that it is one thousand stadia in circuit; however, it extends parallel to the coast to a length of slightly more than two hundred stadia, is deep to the very shore, and has water so very heavy that there is no use for divers, and any person who walks into it and proceeds no farther than up to his navel is immediately raised afloat. It is full of asphalt. The asphalt is blown to the surface at irregular intervals from the midst of the deep, and with it rise bubbles, as though the water were boiling; and the surface of the lake, being convex, presents the appearance of a hill. With the asphalt there arises also much soot, which, though smoky, is imperceptible to the eye; and it tarnishes copper and silver and anything that glistens, even gold" (Strabo, Geography, XVI.42)..."
"Conclusion"
"When Jude was writing his Epistle, he and his readers believed the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah were still burning."
For an Answer: Christian Apologetics - Jude 7
John Gill's commentary of 2 Pet.2:6 says:
"and so the author of the book of Wisdom 10:7 speaking of the five cities, on which fire fell, says,"
" "of whose wickedness, even to this day, the waste land that smoketh is a testimony; and plants bearing fruit, that never come to ripeness.'' "
"Philo the Jew (b) says, that"
" "there are showed to this day in Syria monuments of this unspeakable destruction that happened; as ruins, ashes, sulphur, smoke, and a weak flame, breaking forth as of a fire burning:'' "
2 Peter 2:6 Commentaries: and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
.....You are misreading or misrepresenting your Sodom proof text.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The adjective "eternal" does not modify "suffering" or "vengeance." "Eternal" only modifies "fire."
? said:
Yes, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are still in hell, because they never repented of their sin and turned to God.
Neither Jude 1:7 nor any other passage of Sacred Scripture supports that statement.
The proper translation is important. Compare the "Interlinear" for Jude 7 via this site:
Jude 1 Interlinear Bible
The Interlinear there says it is not "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire", as your posted version says, but the cities are "set forth as an example", "undergoing the penalty of fire aioniou".
Similarly, a literal version reads:
7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 7, CLNT)
"We likewise subscribe to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, who "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). This occurred many centuries ago. How poor a passage to apply to that which is thousands of years hence!"
"The word "set forth" is, literally, "lying before." The term "example" or specimen, is from the word show. These are readily comprehended if we apply them to the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah today. Their destruction was so complete that their exact location is in dispute. Now the preponderance of opinion places them under the shallow end of the Dead Sea. No one can visit this terrible desolation without fully appreciating the force of these words."
"But we are asked to forget this solemn and forceful scene for an "example" which no one can see, and which is not at all "set forth" or "lying before" us. We are asked to forget the fire (Gen.19:24) which destroyed these cities so that the smoke of the plain went up like the smoke of a furnace. The justice or "vengeance" of this fire is all too evident to this very day. It is a powerful reminder of God's judgment which should deter those who are tempted to follow a similar path. This fire is called "eternal." Just now the plain is covered by water, not fire. It was an eonian fire, as is witnessed by its effect for the eon."
"Speaking of Jerusalem, Ezekiel gives us God's thoughts concerning Sodom. "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." And again, "When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters...then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them...when thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate" (Ezek.16:48,53,55)."
"2 Peter 2:6 gives a parallel passage, where we read that God condemns the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to cinders by an overthrow, having placed them for an example. This is perfectly plain, unless we try to distinguish between the cities and the people, and make conscious cinders suffer from flames beneath the waters of the Dead Sea."
"If the Sodomites were on public exhibition where all could see them suffering in the flames of a medieval hell, we might consider them as set forth as an example, but as no one has ever seen them, and no one can see them, they are no example at all. The cities, however, are lying before us as a specimen of God's eonian justice. The effects of the fire endure for the eon. When Jerusalem is restored, they will be restored."
A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Seven
Do you believe that the city of Sodom in Israel today is still burning from the fire that destroyed it? Will the burning be "eternal" or has the "eternal fire" already ended? In which case "eternal" is a deceptive translation & the fire was temporary, not "eternal".
Do you think the city of Sodom in Israel is still burning by that "eternal fire" today? Or has it long ago been extinguished & was not "eternal" but eonian & finite? BTW, the same phrase, "eonian fire" also appears twice in Matthew (25:41; 18:8). If the eonian fire of Jude 1:7 was finite, then why can't the same in Matthew's account be finite?
Were the bodies of the people of Sodom destroyed (killed) by that fire destroyed forever, i.e. endlessly annihilated. No, it is a temporary destruction until their resurrection. Their resurrection will reverse that destruction. IOW the resurrection will destroy that destruction. Love Omnipotent destroys and then He makes alive again what He destroyed:
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand." (Dt.32:39)
Jude doesn't refer to the fire burning in some "hell" somewhere. Rather he refers to a punishment whose effects were observable to the human eye.
Obviously fire & brimstone "destroyed" Sodom & the other cities:
Gen.19:24 Then the LORD rained down brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah— from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus He DESTROYED these CITIES and the entire plain, including all the INHABITANTS of the cities and everything that grew on the ground
Both the "cities" & the "inhabitants" received that destroying fire (Gen.19:24). Likewise Jude 1:7 refers to both the "cities" & the inhabitants who sinned:
7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.(CLV)
7 As, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having in like manner to these given themselves over to fornication, and gone away after other kind of flesh, lie exposed as an example, a penalty of age-abiding fire, undergoing. (Ro)
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before—an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. (YLT)
The "example" is translated as "specimen" in the CLV above. Thayer's Greek lexicon says the Greek word (Strongs #1164, DEIGMA) for such translations means "a. properly, thing shown" & "b. a specimen of anything, example, pattern".
The CLV above says "lying before us". This is a translation of Strongs Greek word # 4295 (prokeimai). Thayer gives the meanings of it as "1. properly, to lie or be placed before (a person or thing), or in front" & "2. to be set before, i. e., a. to be placed before the eyes, to lie in sight; to stand forth".
So, therefore, as i've previously said:
Jude 1:7 refers to the "cities", which housed the populations. Obviously both were destroyed by the aioniou fire. You can go to Israel today & see the brimstone. So Jude 1:7 says they "are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian". Jude doesn't say they are in the unseen underworld where no living human being can see them. Instead, he says, they are lying right here in front of our eyes, where anyone can see them, undergoing the justice of the eonian fire. But only until Sodom is restored (Ezek. 16).
