Will God save people out of hell too? And did Jesus go to hell for three days ?

[Robin Mauro]

These are just things I wonder about and would like to hear from anyone who ponders them too.
Yes, I understand many scriptures seem clear about an eternal hell where people go, but could hell be eternal but people's stay there not be? Some scripture seems to imply that at some point, everyone may be saved, such as "I make all things new."
And Ephesians 4:9 says he descended first...also Psalm 139:8 says ...if I make my bed in sheol, or the grave, or hell (different translations) you are there,
And for that reason, these two questions seem related.
And interestingly, when people refer to hell, it is always down there, like in the earth, (which would explain a lot if the center of the earth is Satan and his demon's headquarters), and heaven up above.

 

[Light of the East]

There is no hell. Roman Catholic invention to scare people into submission. Same with Purgatory.

All mankind ever born or to be born are saved. They have been redeemed by Christ (Romans 5: 18-19). Christ brings all souls to be with Him, having tied up the strong man (the devil) and plundered his house of its illegal gain.

BUT --

Not everyone will enjoy being in the presence of Christ.

"All human beings will see the glory of God, and from this point of view they have the same end. Everyone will certainly see the glory of God, the difference being that, whereas the saved will see the glory of God as sweetest light without evening, the damned will see the same glory of God as consuming fire, as fire that will burn them. It is a true and predictable fact that we shall all see the glory of God. Seeing God, that is to say, His glory and His Light, is something that will happen whether we want it or not. The experience of this Light, however, will be different for the two categories.

The work of the Church and the priests is not to help us to see this glory, because that will happen in any case. The work of the Church centers on how each one will see God. Not on whether he will see God. In other words, the task of the Church is to preach to people that the true God exists, that God is revealed either as light or as consuming fire, and that at the Second Coming of Christ all of us will see God. And it must prepare its members so that they see God not as fire but as light."

The Church does not send anyone to Paradise or to Hell, but it prepares the faithful for the vision of Christ in glory, which everyone will have. God loves the damned as much as the Saints. He wants all to be cured, but not all accept the cure that He offers.

Paradise and Hell According to the Orthodox Church

 

[joshua 1 9]

These are just things I wonder about and would like to hear from anyone who ponders them too.
Yes, I understand many scriptures seem clear about an eternal hell where people go, but could hell be eternal but people's stay there not be? Some scripture seems to imply that at some point, everyone may be saved, such as "I make all things new."
And Ephesians 4:9 says he descended first...also Psalm 139:8 says ...if I make my bed in sheol, or the grave, or hell (different translations) you are there,
And for that reason, these two questions seem related.
And interestingly, when people refer to hell, it is always down there, like in the earth, (which would explain a lot if the center of the earth is Satan and his demon's headquarters), and heaven up above.

Hell is in the earth. It is a spiritual place. There is Abraham's Bosom where the righteous would go before Calvary. Now they are in Heaven. There is a place of comfort and a place of suffering seperated by a great chasm.

And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’ Luke 16:26

Jesus received the key of death, hell and the grave. He proclaimed liberty and freedom to the captive.

"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water" 1Peter 3:19

At the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ the people in Hell will be judged. Those who followed Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire - this is the second death.

Revelation 21:8: "The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

There are very few references in the Bible about Hell (maybe 5). There are a lot of scriptures about what God is going to completely destroy (maybe 50). So there will not even be a memory or a remembrance left.

When most people think about hell they think about Dante's book the Divine comedy from the 1300's. This has been a popular teaching sense it came out. It is divided into three parts: Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradiso.

 

[St_Worm2]

Will God save people out of Hell too?

Hi Robin, our eternal destination is decided on this side of the grave, and that principally on the basis of whether or not we know God & He knows us (whether or not we have come to saving faith in Christ) .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; Mark 16:16; John 3:18, 17:3; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 9:27.

In fact, salvation (since our progenitors were sent out of the Garden of God) has always been by faith/believing (e.g. Genesis 15:6), just like it is today. Since Jesus had yet lived, died and been resurrected during OT times however, the Lord withheld His judgment/temporarily passed over the sins that of OT saints, until they could be finally be atoned for and forgiven .. cf Romans 3:25.

Also, please take note of Luke 16:19-31 where the Lord details, 'Sheol/Hell/the place of the dead' for us, which included a place for those who died in faith (Abraham's Bosom/Paradise .. where Lazarus went), and a place for those who did not (Hades .. where the rich man went).

Yours and His,
David

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes that is exactly right. We preach the gospel with the example of how we live our life as a living epistle. We feed the hungry the word of God, but if they need the food of this world, we help provide that for them also. We give what we can not keep to gain what we can not lose.

 

[com7fy8]

These are just things I wonder about and would like to hear from anyone who ponders them too.

(1) Will God save people out of hell?

During our life here on earth, we have time to trust in Jesus > Ephesians 1:12 > and seek our Father's correction (Hebrews 12:4-11) and perfection in His love > 1 John 4:17 < "in this world," our Apostle John does say > God can do all we need in this life, to prepare us to share eternity with our Father and our Groom Jesus and one another the bride of Christ.

(2) Did Jesus spend three days in hell?

I personally understand that Jesus could have visited people who had died, and He spoke to both those who would stay condemned and those who will spend eternity with Him. But He did not suffer the flames of hell; He is almighty, not able to suffer spiritually.

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

You can't burn fire!

Yes, I understand many scriptures seem clear about an eternal hell where people go, but could hell be eternal but people's stay there not be?

As I offered, now is our time to trust in Christ and actively seek our Father's correction and perfection. And God is quite able to do all we need before we die. It is not about if and how we are able, at all.

Hell is for holding Satan and his devils and other beings who have lived in Satan's evil and selfish spirit > "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" > please see Ephesians 2:2. This foul and nasty spirit will need a place to stay, away. And there are humans who are vessels for carrying it to hell and keeping it in some form of organization so it does not just go anywhere and do anything.

We see what people of Satan's spirit have the nature to do. After they die, they will not have the nature to do anything different. We need now how God is able to change our nature so we live in His love, and then . . . now . . . we have the character to also live in His love in Heaven.

So, it is so important to seek how God alone is able to change our nature > 1 John 4:17.

Some scripture seems to imply that at some point, everyone may be saved, such as "I make all things new."

Jesus means the new heaven and the new earth. All will be in resurrectional glory like we who are His bride > Romans 8:21.

And Ephesians 4:9 says he descended first...also Psalm 139:8 says ...if I make my bed in sheol, or the grave, or hell (different translations) you are there,

The word "hell" does not always mean the same thing. I see that possibly Jesus visited people who already had died, and I can accept that He preached to them. But the news was good only for those who had obeyed God.

And interestingly, when people refer to hell, it is always down there, like in the earth, (which would explain a lot if the center of the earth is Satan and his demon's headquarters), and heaven up above.

I'm informed that Satan is not now in the center of the earth, but he and his are moving around the earth and ruining ones who live in sin. But in due time, possibly, he and his will be down under . . . if down under is the location of the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone. Satan's spirit (Ephesians 2:2) is very toxic filth which will need to be kept somewhere, not with us. And there are humans who are persisting in living in Satan's cruelly stupid spirit with its negative and nasty and numbskulling stuff of pride, lusts, bitterness, frustration and boredom and loneliness and other forms of complaining, arguing, and unforgiveness. That stuff is going somewhere in sewer buckets.

So, it is wise to get rid of that stuff and get into how God has us loving, instead >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

 

[St_Worm2]

Yes that is exactly right. We preach the gospel with the example of how we live our life as a living epistle. We feed the hungry the word of God, but if they need the food of this world, we help provide that for them also. We give what we can not keep to gain what we can not lose.

Since that quote of Ligon's was intended as a direct response to the one that St. Francis is famous for making (even though St. Francis never said it or anything close to it), you may be interested to read what our Roman Catholic friends have to say about it.

Go here: What St. Francis of Assisi Didn’t Actually Say

There is nothing wrong & everything right about living like a Christian, but where the rubber meets the road (so to speak) in speaking to others about Jesus and the salvation that He offers us, evangelism ~always~ requires words.

--David
.

 

[Dave-W]

All mankind ever born or to be born are saved.

That is entirely unscriptural.

 

[Light of the East]

That is entirely unscriptural.

It is entirely scriptural. Romans 5:18-19.

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many (all) were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (all) be made righteous.

We know that all were made sinners, that is, in a wrong relationship with God, by the sin of Adam. Therefore, the only way to understand the word "many" is that it pertains to all people. Hence, all are under the condition and curse of sin.

And therefore, as the first "many" in this verse means "all," so the last "many" in the verse also means the same thing. The same grammatical rule applies to both uses.

And in Orthodox eschatology, we see that Christ has redeemed all mankind.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Pretty clear, isn't it?

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

These verses are probably why the Church taught Patristic Universalism (Apokatastasis) for the first four centuries of the Christian faith.

 

[Dave-W]

And in Orthodox eschatology, we see that Christ has redeemed all mankind.

So what do you do with the passages in Revelation that have people being thrown into the lake of fire?

Or the passage in Daniel that talks about people being resurrected to eternal shame and contempt?

Redemption is available to “all mankind,” but MOST will not take God up on that offer.

 

[Light of the East]

So what do you do with the passages in Revelation that have people being thrown into the lake of fire?

Or the passage in Daniel that talks about people being resurrected to eternal shame and contempt?

Redemption is available to “all mankind,” but MOST will not take God up on that offer.

Most haven't even been given that offer.

Lake of Fire - Nothing. You assume it is eternal. I believe it is corrective. Those who believe in Apokatastasis have an answer for you, I just don't have it at hand.

But the original point I was making and still make is that Christ's salvation redeems all. As you said, the wise take advantage of it. The foolish will suffer. For how long exactly - we don't know.

 

[Dave-W]

Lake of Fire - Nothing. You assume it is eternal.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”​

Sounds eternal to me.

 

[Light of the East]

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”​

Sounds eternal to me.

It says in the Greek "aeon tau aeon" ages unto ages. No hint that this is never-ending.

Oh, and one other thing. What would be the point of endless torment? The Scriptures teach that punishment is to fit the crime. You don't hang someone for stealing a loaf of bread for his hungry family.

 

[Dave-W]

It says in the Greek "aeon tau aeon" ages unto ages. No hint that this is never-ending.

Its an idiom. Similar to l'olam v'ed in Hebrew, and it means never ending.

 

[Light of the East]

Its an idiom. Similar to l'olam v'ed in Hebrew, and it means never ending.

Fair enough answer.

Please answer my second question - to what purpose would be eternal, never ending torment?

 

[Dave-W]

Fair enough answer.

Please answer my second question - to what purpose would be eternal, never ending torment?

I am afraid that question is above my pay grade.

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<LOE>It says in the Greek "aeon tau aeon" ages unto ages. No hint that this is never-ending.
Oh, and one other thing. What would be the point of endless torment? The Scriptures teach that punishment is to fit the crime. You don't hang someone for stealing a loaf of bread for his hungry family.<end>

end

In Hebrew there were no superlatives and to emphasize a word they would repeat it.

Marvin Vincent Word Studies 1 Corinthians 4:17​

Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.
"Figures of Speech in the Bible" E.W. Bullinger

Rev. 1: 6.—” The ages of the ages,” i.e., to the remotest age, for ever and ever. p. 284​

 

[Der Alte]

There is no hell. Roman Catholic invention to scare people into submission. Same with Purgatory.
All mankind ever born or to be born are saved. They have been redeemed by Christ (Romans 5: 18-19). Christ brings all souls to be with Him, having tied up the strong man (the devil) and plundered his house of its illegal gain....

That may be the view you have been taught but consider this about 1000 years before the RCC.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
=================
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught about e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishmen than death or nonexistence. A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced those beliefs.

 

[Der Alte]

It is entirely scriptural. Romans 5:18-19.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many (all) were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (all) be made righteous.

Paul used the Greek word πᾶς/pas/"all" 419 times in his writings. When he meant "all" he said "all."

These verses are probably why the Church taught Patristic Universalism (Apokatastasis) for the first four centuries of the Christian faith.

Nonsense. Do you have anything like credible, verifiable, historical evidence to support this? Quotes from random websites do not constitute such evidence.