I said:
"Stick to the Bible"
Yes I do. And I was asking you to.
Look below. I’ve heard this before and it’s the silliest argument I’ve ever heard. It goes like this, if a person isn’t killed during the tribulation, that is they endure the Tribulation rather than die, they won’t die. Unbelievers who don’t die during the Tribulation won’t have died either of course. In the end it warns and promises nothing at all. Endure to the end by not dying and you’ll be saved from dying. If that isn’t the silliest twisting of scripture I ever heard and men actually believe it instead realizing Jesus is giving a real warning.
Let's examine the context to determine what one will be saved from.
Matt 24:13 - but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
This verse wasn't written in a vacuum. Here is the context:
The disciples ask Jesus:
v.3 - As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Obviously the Tribulation, which ends this age.
v.6 - You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
v.10 - At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
v.12 - Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
v.13 - but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
What is clear here is the words "the end" refers to the end of the Great Tribulation.
Now consider these verses:
v.21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
v.22 - “If those days had not been cut short,
no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
So, the whole context refers to the 7 year period known as the Tribulation. And v.22 makes clear that if those days had continued beyond 7 years, not even the elect would have survived (been saved from the Tribulation).
We find the same statement in Mark 13:13, and guess what?! In that same context, we find the Tribulation. I'll leave that study up to you.
You also have to ignore that the Christians who flee don’t experience the tribulation at all.
Are you kidding? The Tribulation will affect the whole earth. I guess you haven't yet read Revelation.
Yeah, if you endure to the end and don’t die you will be saved from dying.
A little more dramatic than that. being spared the tremendous suffering that leads to physical death during the Tribulation. But I see that you'd rather trivialize the Tribulation, to suit your own opinions.
What is blasphemy against his grace? Your phrase.
Rejection of His grace, that's what.
Do you believe the words of Jesus where he talked about HOW people fall away? The pleasures of sin, the troubles of persecution or the troubles in this life.
I sure do. Luke 8:13
What about who come to Jesus calling on the name of the Lord as Lord, clearly believers acknowledging him as Lord, who he rejected as workers of inquity.
I see context isn't your "thing". So, let's get some.
Matt 7-
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only
the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
OK, what is the "will of My Father" from v.21? Believers receiving eternal life.
John 6:40 - For
my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
OK, so what that these people, who are standing before the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who is sitting on a Great White Throne (Rev 20), call Him Lord. By now, every knee IS bowing, and probably knocking together uncontrollably. So calling Him Lord has NO connotation of how they EVER thought of Him during their lives.
And v.23 clarifies all doubt. Becuase Jesus tells them, "I NEVER KNEW you", He is saying that they NEVER BELIEVED.
And that is clear anyway from the basis upon which they APPEALED to Him for entering the kingdom: their OWN works, even those done "in His name".
If any of this crowd had EVER believed in Him as Savior, He could NOT have said, "I NEVER KNEW you". That's just not reasonable or possible.
Because He also said that whoever believes HAS (current possession) eternal life (John 5;24 and 6:47).
Then Jesus said, "I give them (believers) eternal life and they SHALL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.
So, IF any in that crowd in Matt 7 had ever believed, Jesus wouldn't have said "I never knew you" and then rejected them (v.23).
Ah, no i know Jesus says we ALL need to endure to the end.
No He didn't. That verse is in the context of the Tribulation, as I have just shown.
The fruit is rejecting that one is embracing the most absurd excuse i ever heard.
This is an absurd sentence. What "fruit"? And rejecting "what"?
But they can all jump out of his hand like the 70.
What 70. Do you actually know any Scripture, or are you just winging it with bits and pieces of verses that you've recalled over the years?
If you actually know verses, please at least cite them so others can understand where your comments are coming from.
I'm unaware of any "70" jumping in any context, much less "His hand", what ever that refers to.
No love. No obedience. Just being convinced one is going to heaven no matter what sin one enjoys. This doctrine has bad fruit.
Your doctrine is the unbiblical one. Paul made clear in Rom 6 and 7 that sin is a choice. And he was writing to believers. We all make choices. But salvation is based on faith in Christ (saving faith). And from that MOMENT, the person shall never perish.
To force conditions into John 10:28, where NONE exist, is blasphemous and rejects the straightforward words of Jesus. You are not smarter than Jesus. You do not know more than He does.
But let me ask you, do you need obey the command to love God?
Sure I need to. But not for salvation, which probably shocks you. The command to love is for believers, because unbelievers are incapable of loving God. They don't have the capacity.
So you are going to Heaven no matter how you behave to others, right?
Do you realize that this sentence just SMACKS of works salvation, as if one's behavior determines whether they go to heaven or hell?????
Look, everyone is a sinner. Rom 3:9, 23. But only saved sinners will go to heaven.
How many sins did Jesus die for on the cross? Your answer will explain a lot.