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2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

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JLB777

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Yep. I see this a lot on these forums.

I still wonder why you believe that salvation can be lost when Jesus didn't give you that freedom. He said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You've failed to show that Jesus didn't teach eternal security in that verse. And you never will. Because He DID teach OSAS.


Again please post the scripture that says Christian’s can hate their brother and still have eternal life?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


again


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


again


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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On the point of answering things point by point, I find this style meaningless.
Sad. It's the only way to deal with multiple points.

Free, your points have never answered the thrust of my position. God blesses righteous walking, consistency, a lifetime spent dedicated to eternity and His principles.
Why do you keep forgetting the point I made in my first post to you? It's about eternal security, which you say you have, but not all Christians.

In spite of what Jesus said.
 
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LightLoveHope

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Sad. It's the only way to deal with multiple points.

Why do you keep forgetting the point I made in my first post to you? It's about eternal security, which you say you have, but not all Christians.

In spite of what Jesus said.

What believers need is food to help them grow and for many conversion to actually find faith. I suspect what you call assurance is in reality coming to faith in the first place.

It matters nothing if people believe they have assurance but this is like a drunk turning up to a wedding. They are not dressed, cause a fuss and will just get thrown out.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Free, I am not here to understand you.
Well, you've made that clear, by your repeated erroneous comments about what I believe.

I will share my position and other positions which I do not accept. I do not know where you stand on these, and as soon as it becomes I do not believe.... you say I believe.... things have gone wrong.
Not to mention these indescipherable sentences.

As far as I can tell, your responses have failed to address how we qualify to receive the Holy Spirit other than to "believe" without defining what that is.
Well, this is the first time you've brought up these 2 subjects, so how could I have addressed either of them before?

This is biblical saving faith:

Trusting fully in the work of Christ in dying for your own sins on the cross and His guarantee of giving you eternal life for believing in Him.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Now, for the second subject:

We receive the Holy Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ for our salvation.

Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Again please post the scripture that says Christian’s can hate their brother and still have eternal life?
Are you really that hard of understanding?

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Sad that you cannot discern the difference between these 2 phrases:

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" and
"no murderer has eternal life in him".

But they are different.

And you're not paying attention.
 
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LightLoveHope

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Well, you've made that clear, by your repeated erroneous comments about what I believe.


Not to mention these indescipherable sentences.


Well, this is the first time you've brought up these 2 subjects, so how could I have addressed either of them before?

This is biblical saving faith:

Trusting fully in the work of Christ in dying for your own sins on the cross and His guarantee of giving you eternal life for believing in Him.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Now, for the second subject:

We receive the Holy Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ for our salvation.

Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

My friend you have done it again.
I believe Jesus is the son of God, but that does not make me saved.
I believe Jesus died for sins but that does not make me saved.
Believing "in" Jesus Christ is an important step.
Believing He died because of my sins, personally.
But just believing my sins caused His death does not make me clean, or washed or purified.
If that was so this is a car wash, coming out the other side expecting to get it all wrong all over again and having zero desire to do any different.

If God died, He expects a real eternal change, in our lives. If not He need not have come He could of just accepted us as we are, tweak the sin out of us and heaven is all populated and ready to roll.

So Jesus death and resurrection empowers victory, freedom, healing, joy. If it cannot reach the heart, the emotions, motivations, cause and effect that ruins our lives, it is powerless.
But if the cross really changes us, rocks us to our core, there is hope, eternal hope.

Free you are quoting verses at me, which are true, but you seem not to see how a prostitute is saved, finds their mental illness gone, their relationships now flowing and in balance, depression and hopelessness removed, and they literally walk the path of righteousness. Now this has happened to people, it is like night and day. The fruit is plain to see, the consequences of the cross real.

I have been friends with people who have gone through this. For me it was not this dramatic but the fruit has been very obvious and real. So in my enthusiasm I see this as the model of spiritual realisation and truth.

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' Luke 10:27

If ones heart is conflicted, emotions fly everywhere, struggling with sin and addictions, this is like a dream impossible to reach. But that is the point, without faith and the Holy Spirit, opening up ones heart and walking as child, nothing will every succeed.
 
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JLB777

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Are you really that hard of understanding?


Sad that you cannot discern the difference between these 2 phrases:

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" and
"no murderer has eternal life in him".

But they are different.

And you're not paying attention.


Sorry your opinion doesn’t somehow make God’s word void of the truth it conveys.

A brother who hates his brother does not have eternal life remaining in him.


That is what abide means; remain.



That is the end of your OSAS delusion.



JLB
 
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EmSw

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Are you really that hard of understanding?


Sad that you cannot discern the difference between these 2 phrases:

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" and
"no murderer has eternal life in him".

But they are different.


And you're not paying attention.

Tell everyone here the difference. I'm sure most think they are the same thing.
 
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FreeGrace2

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My friend you have done it again.
I believe Jesus is the son of God, but that does not make me saved.
I believe Jesus died for sins but that does not make me saved.
Believing "in" Jesus Christ is an important step.
Believing He died because of my sins, personally.
But just believing my sins caused His death does not make me clean, or washed or purified.
Since you have plainly rejected the Scriptures, what do you think "makes you clean"?

If that was so this is a car wash, coming out the other side expecting to get it all wrong all over again and having zero desire to do any different.
Again, just a terrible irrelevant attempt at comparison.

If God died, He expects a real eternal change, in our lives.
Of course He expects it. It is commanded. But not to get saved.

Free you are quoting verses at me, which are true, but you seem not to see how a prostitute is saved, finds their mental illness gone, their relationships now flowing and in balance, depression and hopelessness removed, and they literally walk the path of righteousness.
Where do you come up with these faulty views of what I see?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Sorry your opinion doesn’t somehow make God’s word void of the truth it conveys.
My "opinion" is exactly what God's word says. Not that you've ever noticed.

A brother who hates his brother does not have eternal life remaining in him.
Oh, so now you have to change words to fit your opinions, huh?

The word in the verse is "abiding", not "remaining". Can you prove that these 2 words mean the same thing? Of course you can't, because they don't.

And, the inclusion of the word "abiding" has a DIFFERENT meaning to the verse than if that word was excluded.

That is what abide means; remain.
Prove it.

That is the end of your OSAS delusion.
JLB
Oh, right. Congratulations. You've just "proved" that Jesus lied in John 10:28 then.

Rubbish.

John 10:28 is the CLEAREST AND MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD verse on OSAS in the Bible. Not that you ever noticed.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Tell everyone here the difference. I'm sure most think they are the same thing.
If the presence or absence of the word "abiding" doesn't change the meaning of the sentence, then why bother including it in 1 John 3:15?

The concept of "abiding" is the key to understanding this verse. John's concept of "abiding" is always tht it is a reciprocal relationship, as we find in John 15:4 and 1 John 2:27. Since Jesus Christ Himself is eternal life (5:20), to say tht someone does not have eternal life abiding in him is equivalent to saying that he does not have Christ abiding (reciprocal relationship = fellowship) abiding in him.

Thanks for asking.
 
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JLB777

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My "opinion" is exactly what God's word says. Not that you've ever noticed.


Not even close.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


“I know Him” is the biblical definition of eternal life.


Those who claim to have eternal life, but do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.


These are those who poison the minds of God’s people with a false grace message.


They have disregarded the teaching of Christ and His Apostle’s.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


The doctrine of Christ and His commandments are about Loving God by loving our neighbor.


This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 6

again


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



To sin against our brother is to hate him.


If we steal from our brother, we are not loving him, but hating him.

If we commit adultery with our brothers wife we are not loving him, but hating him.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



The way we love God is by loving our neighbor.


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said:
"My "opinion" is exactly what God's word says. Not that you've ever noticed."
Not even close.
How come you haven't even come close to proving that then?

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

“I know Him” is the biblical definition of eternal life.
So? Liars lie. Everyone knows that. What's your point?

Those who claim to have eternal life, but do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.
So?

These are those who poison the minds of God’s people with a false grace message.
Please proceed to prove that what I say is a "false grace message". So far, you haven't come close to doing that.

They have disregarded the teaching of Christ and His Apostle’s.
All unbelievers have done that. So?

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Ah, once again we see the word "abide", which you continue to misunderstand.

The doctrine of Christ and His commandments are about Loving God by loving our neighbor.
Yes, that's one of His doctrines.

This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 6

again

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
Yes, believers are commanded to love their brothers.

To sin against our brother is to hate him.
Yep.

If we steal from our brother, we are not loving him, but hating him.

If we commit adultery with our brothers wife we are not loving him, but hating him.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Yep. All true.

The way we love God is by loving our neighbor.
The way we love God is by keeping His commandments and believing ALL that He says. Not just the things you might approve of, all the while rejecting what you don't approve of.

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21
JLB
What do these verses mean to you?
 
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JLB777

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The way we love God is by keeping His commandments and believing ALL that He says. Not just the things you might approve of, all the while rejecting what you don't approve of.


The truth remains no matter how you try to explain it away.

The choice is yours to believe and obey the truth, practice the truth, speak the truth and walk in the truth.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JLB
 
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BCsenior

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God's Truth remains God's Truth
regardless of what anyone thinks,
or says, or writes, or does!

BACs are responsible for being led
by the Holy Spirit as He reveals the
meaning of what the word of God
is saying!

For example: the supposed conflict
between the so-called OSAS verses
and those verses in which opposition.

These are reconciled simply by seeing:
The NT English word "believe" from
the Greek "pisteou" is so understated!
There is NO English word which can be
used to relay the full meaning of the
secular Greek word "pisteou".
(Some Greek words can have up to 40
different meanings, depending on context!)

Taking into account the whole of the NT,
the Greek "pisteou" must mean:
believe, faith, trust, and obedience.

I.E. one who truly believes in Jesus and
His Gospel (Good News), will "believe"
in the above manner.
 
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FreeGrace2

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The truth remains no matter how you try to explain it away.
Said the one who continually tries to explain away the truth.

The choice is yours to believe and obey the truth, practice the truth, speak the truth and walk in the truth.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JLB
You've been given a proper explanation of the verse. Clearly what it doesn't say is:
no murderer has eternal life in him

The word "abiding" makes all the difference. John recorded Jesus talking to the 11 disciples in John 15 about abiding. It is a reciprocal relationship, and a command.

Therefore, it cannot in any way be related to a person in control of their salvation.

We are recipients of salvation. Not producers of it.

So your theories are unbiblical.

The believer who hates his brother is out of fellowship with the Lord. iow, not abiding in Him.
 
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JLB777

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Said the one who continually tries to explain away the truth.


You've been given a proper explanation of the verse. Clearly what it doesn't say is:
no murderer has eternal life in him

The word "abiding" makes all the difference. John recorded Jesus talking to the 11 disciples in John 15 about abiding. It is a reciprocal relationship, and a command.

Therefore, it cannot in any way be related to a person in control of their salvation.

We are recipients of salvation. Not producers of it.

So your theories are unbiblical.

The believer who hates his brother is out of fellowship with the Lord. iow, not abiding in Him.


The scripture does not say “out of fellowship”, but plainly says -

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
 
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FreeGrace2

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The scripture does not say “out of fellowship”, but plainly says -

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
It's been explained. But go ahead and go your own way.

If 1 John 3:15 meant what you want it to mean, then John 10:28 cannot be true.

But you've rejected the clear message of John 10:28.
 
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JLB777

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It's been explained. But go ahead and go your own way.

If 1 John 3:15 meant what you want it to mean, then John 10:28 cannot be true.

But you've rejected the clear message of John 10:28.


Your attempt to “explain away” the truth is well noted by all.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Were you ever able to find a scripture that says a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life remaining in him?


If you need more time to search the scriptures, I understand.


I’ll just wait.



JLB
 
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