WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[Saint Steven]

I just got done quoting the OP about 6 times. Please read the OP. If you want to edit the OP be my guest. If the OP is unclear and somehow "The Church" or Christian body is not, "God's saints who keep ALL OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS of God," then change the premise and the argument.

Not to mention all the redundancies.

"God's saints who keep ALL OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS of God,"

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I just got done quoting the OP about 6 times. Please read the OP. If you want to edit the OP be my guest. If the OP is unclear and somehow "The Church" or Christian body is not, "God's saints who keep ALL OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS of God," then change the premise and the argument.

Why would I need to edit the OP. These are God's WORD not mine and we should believe them...

1 JOHN 2:3-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep <ALL> his commandments. 4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Notice God's people keep ALL of God's Commandments through FAITH in Christ?

NOTE: God's saints keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God. It is these people that are a remnant that the devil is making war with. They are called God's saints and these are the ones that have right to the tree of life.

 

[Uber Genius]

NOTE: God's saints keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

Notice God's people keep ALL of God's Commandments through FAITH in Christ

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God,

We are only saved by grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast

Please show me how these quotes are coherent.

They appear to be the same as claiming,

"I'm a married bachelor and I live in a house that is a round square."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please show me how these quotes are coherent.

They appear to be the same as claiming,

"I'm a married bachelor and I live in a house that is a round square."

They are very clear, it is all God's WORD. What do you have problems understanding?

 

[Dave G.]

I wonder if the term "born again" is divisive. Evangelicals have latched onto it. Others may dislike the term or its association with a specific group.

Without question people have problems with the term, but Jesus did not.

 

[Uber Genius]

Why would I need to edit the OP. These are God's WORD not mine and we should believe them...

1 JOHN 2:3-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep <ALL> his commandments. 4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Notice God's people keep ALL of God's Commandments through FAITH in Christ?

NOTE: God's saints keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God. It is these people that are a remnant that the devil is making war with. They are called God's saints and these are the ones that have right to the tree of life.

"So that the law is become our tutor [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

And then according to your OP we aren't part of the church yet!!!!

According to your OP and followups it appears that

The Law -> knowledge of sin -> repentance and salvation through faith -> keeping the LAW

So that is why you can need to edit the OP in order to claim to believe that the Law has been fulfilled and no longer plays a role in our lives.

Gal 5:19-21 vs 22,23 is life by the flesh (the Law) vs life by the Spirit.

The command of scripture is that THE LAW HAS BEEN FULFILLED IN CHRIST. It plays no role whatsoever in our life. It is nothing but a historical curiosity.

Further Jesus and his disciples didn't keep the Law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"So that the law is become our tutor [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." And then according to your OP we aren't part of the church yet!!!!

Well that is not true. You did not read the OP did you.

According to your OP and followups it appears that The Law -> knowledge of sin -> repentance and salvation through faith -> keeping the LAW, So that is why you can need to edit the OP in order to claim to believe that the Law has been fulfilled and no longer plays a role in our lives. Gal 5:19-21 vs 22,23 is life by the flesh (the Law) vs life by the Spirit.

Well that is not true. Where does it say that in the OP?

The command of scripture is that THE LAW HAS BEEN FULFILLED IN CHRIST. It plays no role whatsoever in our life. It is nothing but a historical curiosity. Further Jesus and his disciples didn't keep the Law.

Well that is not true. God's LAW according to God's WORD gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; PSALMS 119:172. It is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and faith establishes God's LAW through LOVE in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is the NEW COVENANT promise of salvation by faith *HEBERWS 8:10-12.

Hope this helps

 

[Uber Genius]

They are very clear, it is all God's WORD. What do you have problems understanding?

The descendents of Abraham were called to worship in the tabernacle. THAT IS IN GOD's WORD.

The descendents of Abraham were called to worship in the Temple. THAT IS IN GOD's WORD. So were they violating God's word by stopping worshiping God in the Tabernacle?

One cannot be in relationship with God due to "KEEPING ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God",(Please don't claim for the umpteenth time that you didn't say that) and "faith in Jesus."

The two claims are mutually exclusive.

Pick one.

What I and others are arguing is that at one time the Law was given but produced no relationship with God. Then, Jesus came and introduced faith and repentance. The Law produced knowledge of sin. That was it. Finished. No more.

It was a tudor to lead us to Christ. And if we return to the Law, we are as Paul put it Fools, Bewitched, Ignorant.

So again, Pick one,

Red Pill, Blue Pill
The Law, or Faith in Christ

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The descendents of Abraham were called to worship in the tabernacle. THAT IS IN GOD's WORD.

The descendents of Abraham were called to worship in the Temple. THAT IS IN GOD's WORD. So were they violating God's word by stopping worshiping God in the Tabernacle?

One cannot be in relationship with God due to "KEEPING ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God",(Please don't claim for the umpteenth time that you didn't say that) and "faith in Jesus."

The two claims are mutually exclusive.

Pick one.

What I and others are arguing is that at one time the Law was given but produced no relationship with God. Then, Jesus came and introduced faith and repentance. The Law produced knowledge of sin. That was it. Finished. No more.

It was a tudor to lead us to Christ. And if we return to the Law, we are as Paul put it Fools, Bewitched, Ignorant.

So again, Pick one,

Red Pill, Blue Pill
The Law, or Faith in Christ

Here let's state it differently maybe this will help the discussion...
* If someone is professing to be a christian while continuing to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN, are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God ? (scripture please)

 

[Uber Genius]

Well that is not true. You did not read the OP did you.

Well that is not true. Where does it say that in the OP?

Well that is not true. God's LAW according to God's WORD gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; PSALMS 119:172. It is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and faith establishes God's LAW through LOVE in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is the NEW COVENANT promise of salvation by faith *HEBERWS 8:10-12.

Hope this helps

Quoting the OP in context dozens of times only get the response,

"You didn't read the OP."

Pick one.

Option A:
I am a member of the Church because I (AS I CLEARLY STATED IN MY OP) "KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD!"

OR

Option B:
I am a member of the Church because I (AS I CLEARLY didn't STATE IN MY OP) "have faith is Christ's death on the cross, and my church membership doesn't depend on my keeping the law or ALL OF GOD's COMMANDS"

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Quoting the OP in context dozens of times only get the response,

"You didn't read the OP."

Pick one.

Option A:
I am a member of the Church because I (AS I CLEARLY STATED IN MY OP) "KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD!"

OR

Option B:
I am a member of the Church because I (AS I CLEARLY didn't STATE IN MY OP) "have faith is Christ's death on the cross, and my church membership doesn't depend on my keeping the law or ALL OF GOD's COMMANDS"

Hmm you seem to be making things up now no one is saying to you. Such a pity.

 

[Francis Drake]

Nope. We are only saved by grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8.

Grace however is for the fruit of OBEDIENCE to the faith.

Obedience to the faith is not obedience to the Law.

ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Obedience to the faith is not obedience to the Law.

ROMANS 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

Obedience to the faith is not obedience to the Law.​

If your faith does not have the fruit of OBEDIENCE it is cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:13-23

Obedience to the faith is not obedience to the Law.​

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Law proves every man a failure and guilty, which is what Jesus hammered home repeatedly in Matt5. So, having realised the fruitlessness of attempting perfection via the keeping of laws, we surrender our pride to Christ's finished work.
By that and that alone, we establish the purpose of the Law. -Total and unchallengeable proof of guilt!

That's why obedience to the faith does not come from obedience to the Law.

Paul states clearly that the Law was made for lawbreakers, yet you insist on applying it to the saints!​

1Tim1v9We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine ​

​

 

[Uber Genius]

Here let's state it differently maybe this will help the discussion...
* If someone is professing to be a christian while continuing to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN, are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God ? (scripture please)

Ah... I think we are making progress.

They are saved by grace not as a result of works. Paul in Rom. 7:31 says wretched man that I am who will save me from this body of sin and death. Yet he had been a Christian for at least 20 years at that point. Now there is some controversy about whether he was referring to himself as the verse appears on its face, but either way Paul claims to not have been perfect in his actions. So Paul teaches that we progress in our conformity to God's character over time. We don't drop out of salvation everytime we sin due to the fact that we didn't enter into our salvation by NOT SINNING.

 

[Neogaia777]

Here let's state it differently maybe this will help the discussion...

* If someone is professing to be a christian while continuing to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN, are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God ? (scripture please)

Define "unrepentant"...? Since none of us with a full knowledge of sin, cannot stop sometimes committing sin that we know is a sin sometimes, or feel might be a sin in some situations and cases (but may not be) (in certain moral situations where you see or feel that true justice might be making an exception to the rule(s) in some cases)... Anyway,

I smoke cigarettes, it's a known sin, I know it is a sin, yet I do it, cause I'm addicted, and also partially due to some mental health issues, but it is a sin, and a known sin, now does that keep from being in a saved state all the while I am doing it...? I don't think that is the case... I've grown up from thinking that... I am "repentant" about it, but I have not repented yet...

And what about ignorant letter of the law people, who reject the truth and do or will not (as in they choose not to) see all their own sin...

The facts are no one can be sinless, except Jesus... And I definitely do not see anybody on here or anywhere (with my full knowledge of sin) that is sin free completely, that's the logic problem involved here, and with telling someone that they must be perfect of sin free and never sin again or they'll lose their salvation or never had it in the first place...

If you are telling people that and teaching that then you are very, very wrong and do not understand God, Christ, or the gospel at all...

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Obedience to the faith is not obedience to the Law.

Of course it is and is why Jesus says Go and sin no more. Those who continue to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM neither do they know God *HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

Obedience to the faith means to be OBEDIENT to God's WORD by faith. God's LAW is a part of God's WORD.

The Law proves every man a failure and guilty, which is what Jesus hammered home repeatedly in Matt5. So, having realised the fruitlessness of attempting perfection via the keeping of laws, we surrender our pride to Christ's finished work.By that and that alone, we establish the purpose of the Law. -Total and unchallengeable proof of guilt!

Agreed

That's why obedience to the faith does not come from obedience to the Law.

Who said obedience comes by the law? Obedience to God's LAW only comes by faith in God's WORD alone that works by LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE God.
​

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul states clearly that the Law was made for lawbreakers, yet you insist on applying it to the saints!
1Tim1v9We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

I do not insist on any such thing. If you are not breaking God's LAW then you are not condemned by it.

These are God's WORD not mine descibing who his people are...

1 JOHN 2:3-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep <ALL> his commandments. 4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

 

[Karola]

Define "unrepentant"...? Since none of us with a full knowledge of sin, cannot stop sometimes committing sin that we know is a sin sometimes, or feel might be a sin in some situations and cases (but may not be) (in certain moral situations where you see or feel that true justice might be making an exception to the rule(s) in some cases)... Anyway,

I smoke cigarettes, it's a known sin, I know it is a sin, yet I do it, cause I'm addicted, and also partially due to some mental health issues, but it is a sin, and a known sin, now does that keep from being in a saved state all the while I am doing it...? I don't think that is the case... I've grown up from thinking that... I am "repentant" about it, but I have not repented yet...

And what about ignorant letter of the law people, who reject the truth and do or will not (as in they choose not to) see all their own sin...

The facts are no one can be sinless, except Jesus... And I definitely do not see anybody on here or anywhere (with my full knowledge of sin) that is sin free completely, that's the logic problem involved here, and with telling someone that they must be perfect of sin free and never sin again or they'll lose their salvation or never had it in the first place...

If you are telling people that and teaching that then you are very, very wrong and do not understand God, Christ, or the gospel at all...

God Bless!

Smoking may kill you if you don't stop, but it doesn't put you in an unsaved state

 

[Neogaia777]

Ah... I think we are making progress.

They are saved by grace not as a result of works. Paul in Rom. 7:31 says wretched man that I am who will save me from this body of sin and death. Yet he had been a Christian for at least 20 years at that point. Now there is some controversy about whether he was referring to himself as the verse appears on its face, but either way Paul claims to not have been perfect in his actions. So Paul teaches that we progress in our conformity to God's character over time. We don't drop out of salvation everytime we sin due to the fact that we didn't enter into our salvation by NOT SINNING.

"We don't drop out of salvation everytime we sin due to the fact that we didn't enter into our salvation by NOT SINNING."

Couldn't have said it better myself...

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ah... I think we are making progress.

They are saved by grace not as a result of works. Paul in Rom. 7:31 says wretched man that I am who will save me from this body of sin and death. Yet he had been a Christian for at least 20 years at that point. Now there is some controversy about whether he was referring to himself as the verse appears on its face, but either way Paul claims to not have been perfect in his actions. So Paul teaches that we progress in our conformity to God's character over time. We don't drop out of salvation everytime we sin due to the fact that we didn't enter into our salvation by NOT SINNING.

Nope! Those who continue in a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state with God as they do not know him.

HEBREWS 10:26-27
[26], For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hope this helps

 

[Neogaia777]

Smoking may kill you if you don't stop, but it doesn't put you in an unsaved state

@LoveGodsWord does think that, and he's wrong...

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@LoveGodsWord does think that, and he's wrong...

God Bless!

Where is your scripture? Where does it say you can continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN and be in a saved state with God? Those who continue in sin reject the gift of God's dear son and the wages of sin is death.

ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

HEBREWS 10:26-27
[26], For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.