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What Is Fire?

FineLinen

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Dr Livingstone I presume ;)

I shall read your most important lessons with interest & thoughtfully review them & have a chat.
In the meantime - I shall gather my list.

I somehow think I have restricted myself by asking for just five - there are so many when you start to think about them. There's probably a whole lot more to come too so I list the most memorable one's that have caused the biggest turning points or made the most impact.

I'll start of with number 1 and review the others when I get some free time.

NUMBER UNO

BE FILLED WITH FIRE

I'm talking the unforgettable fire of the Baptism of the Spirit via the laying on of hands. Without this event I would have had my doubts in the darkest moments of my Christian Walk. This is power from on High. I saw the Glory of the Lord - it illuminated the darkness of my soul like a search light in the night sky reaching up to the clouds. The fire burned - it was a living flame, moving with life and purpose. The presence surrounded me. This was my advance deposit - the guarantee of my spiritual inheritance from God himself.:handpointup:

Dear FIRE: My brother I have thoroughly enjoyed responding to you. Take your time, some of us have responsibilities (F.L. excluded LOL)

The mighty Baptism of the Spirit broke upon me early one morning while walking down the street to work. I had tarried, spent whole nights at the altar alone in the little Gospel Church, crying out to Him to fill me. Two years went by, and every day the cry within intensified. I just knew He was bringing me into a mighty experience!

And, when you least expect it, in that early morning walk as I expressed to Him, "give me the words to tell you how much I love You" I could no longer speak our mother tongue. A torrent of glory filled me until I thought I would die! Oh the Fire, oh our God who IS fire, can really "ruin" a persons life forever!
 
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Tigger45

Mt 9:13..."I desire mercy, not sacrifice"...
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FineLinen

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MOD HAT ON

Thread moved from Traditional Theology to Christian Scriptures

MOD HAT OFF

Dear Mod: I appreciate you moving the fire post to a more appropriate link. Few found it before, & possibly the trend will continue (lol).

Please know your hard work as a MOD is much appreciated!

"Nothing can separate you from His love, absolutely nothing, neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature... We do not need to beg Him to bless us, He simply cannot help it. Therefore God is enough! God is enough for time, God is enough for eternity. God is enough!" -Hannah W. Smith-
 
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FineLinen

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LOL - I get the idea by "robust" you might mean debate. No worries. This is a non-debate forum. :)

I just meant that because this is a discussion forum, and you seemed to be the only one posting - which is more fitting maybe for the Devotionals area? But here we are meant to discuss topics in light of Tradition.

Ok ... well I don't want you to have to talk to yourself. But if you see this isn't what you want, it can be moved elsewhere. We are here to serve. :)

1 Peter 1:7 - These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, gl.


There are many aspects of Fire that are frequently present in our Tradition. From the moment we enter the Church, we light a candle that reminds us that Christ is the Light of the world. We are reminded especially frequently of the fiery furnace in which the three Hebrew youth were thrown - the fire that raged up to consume the soldiers standing nearby, but because of the Presence of Christ with them in the flames, they experienced as cool.

Yes, our God IS a consuming fire. The most important understanding of this has to do with the fact that God IS love. And yet He refines us in life, purifying us, if we follow Christ and cooperate with His grace. We are changed, transformed, from glory to glory, restoring both the image and likeness of Christ into which we were created. So that when we stand before God, Who IS love, we will be like Him, and will experience His Presence as delightful. Those who hate Him - are still loved by Him, but because of the way they have twisted their nature against Him, for them He will be that consuming fire. So our greatest desire in this life is to follow Christ, to be transformed by God's grace, in order to enjoy communion with Him in the life of the age to come forever. Glory to God!

Dear Anastasia: Glory to God indeed! Thank you for an insightful post, rarely is this depth found on these threads.

1 Peter 1:7 - These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, gl.
 
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Kaon

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent


How shallow is the common view of "fire" as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of....

"Life"....Isa. 4:5

"Purification"....Matt. 3:3

"Atonement"....Lev. 16:27

"Transformation".....2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God's fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, "aflame to the very tips of our fingers." And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God's Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God's wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a "fire unfolding itself" (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and "the appearance of fire." (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ's eyes are a flame of "fire" (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of "fire" are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said "to go before God," His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God's ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4...Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes--call it, if you please, a paradox--in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, "Thy God is a consuming Fire," and "Thy God is a merciful God" (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)--words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God's cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)--suggestive words. And, so again, "By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh." (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by "fire." (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often "fire" is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in "fire:" God answers Gideon by "fire;" and David by "fire." (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by "fire;" and in "fire" Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of "fire." So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by "fire." (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of "fire" God gave His law. And in "fire" the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that "fire," like judgment, so far from being the sinner's portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God's judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is "already kindled," always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. "I am come to send fire on the earth," for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the "fire is to try every man's work." He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned "so as by fire," by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, "He that is near Me is near fire," expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work "like a refiner's fire." And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that "our God is a consuming Fire," i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but "Our God is a consuming Fire"--a consuming Fire, "by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed."

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that "coals of fire" go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are "coals of fire" to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious "fires" of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner's doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these "fires" not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise--

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-

When you get ore, you need to refine it in order to get what you need from it. This was traditionally done with fire.

When you want a stronger weapon, you need to heat and train the metal; you need "fire" for that.

To purify gold or silver, you must burn off the impurities by putting it in the fire (hot enough to burn away the impurities, but not the gold!)

You are right; the fire isn't necessarily a punishment. The "punishment" is a consequence of the iniquity we have. The more "impurities" we have, the longer we stay in the "fire." If you are pure, the fire doesn't harm you. God knows the temperature of fire unique for our purification in the same way a metallurgist knows the unique temperature of the metals s/he uses.
 
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FineLinen

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When you get ore, you need to refine it in order to get what you need from it. This was traditionally done with fire.

When you want a stronger weapon, you need to heat and train the metal; you need "fire" for that.

To purify gold or silver, you must burn off the impurities by putting it in the fire (hot enough to burn away the impurities, but not the gold!)

You are right; the fire isn't necessarily a punishment. The "punishment" is a consequence of the iniquity we have. The more "impurities" we have, the longer we stay in the "fire." If you are pure, the fire doesn't harm you. God knows the temperature of fire unique for our purification in the same way a metallurgist knows the unique temperature of the metals s/he uses.

Dear Kaon: Thank you for an insightful post. It is an interesting situation in those who are not "hurt" by the 2nd death, "the Lake of Theos. Why? They have been hurt over & over & over until nothing is left to hurt. Such is the outcome of tasting of the One whose essence is FIRE.
 
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Kaon

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Dear Kaon: Thank you for an insightful post. It is an interesting situation in those who are not "hurt" by the 2nd death, "the Lake of Theos. Why? They have been hurt over & over & over until nothing is left to hurt. Such is the outcome of tasting of the One whose essence is FIRE.

People wonder why the Most High God doesn't just show Himself other than Christ, and why He casts out angels who disobey.

His literal nature would obliterate iniquity - which means us, and any other fallen entities. The more iniquity, the more consuming the fire. Trials, therefore, are mercies of temperament - to prepare us though refinement to be with Him.
 
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FineLinen

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People wonder why the Most High God doesn't just show Himself other than Christ, and why He casts out angels who disobey.

His literal nature would obliterate iniquity - which means us, and any other fallen entities. The more iniquity, the more consuming the fire. Trials, therefore, are mercies of temperament - to prepare us though refinement to be with Him.

"No words can express how much the world owes to sorrow. Most of the Psalms were born in the wilderness. Most of the Epistles were written in a prison. The greatest thoughts of the greatest thinkers have all passed through fire. The greatest poets have "learned in suffering what they taught in song." In bonds Bunyan lived the allegory that he afterwards wrote, and we may thank Bedford Jail for the Pilgrim's Progress. Take comfort, afflicted Christian! When God is about to make pre-eminent use of a person, He put them in the fire." -George MacDonald-
 
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FineLinen

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People wonder why the Most High God doesn't just show Himself other than Christ, and why He casts out angels who disobey.

His literal nature would obliterate iniquity - which means us, and any other fallen entities. The more iniquity, the more consuming the fire. Trials, therefore, are mercies of temperament - to prepare us though refinement to be with Him.

Dear Kaon: I have not found a way to send a personal note on this site. It may be on account of my age & various infirmities or simply a broken mind. I do appreciate your efforts to enrich me, which you have done in a couple of ways already. Your kindness is much appreciated even though it erodes my vow of poverty.

May His great love & grace continue to lead us into the outer edge of what is described by the Lord's vessel as "being saved to the uttermost." Methinks the fire of His Presence is foundational for such an expansive experience, and one our beings have set our sights in Him.
 
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FIRESTORM314

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Dear FIRESTORM: I trust you have had a wonderful day. To continue with #4= Surround yourself with quality.

My wife & I met in a little Gospel church where for the very first day I knew God loved me & would take me to Himself. He did & what a journey it has been.

We later became a part of a fellowship of brethren from various quarters who eclipsed anything we could imagine in this mighty God of ours. One of those brethren was a man of apostle caliber. He spoke in a series of meetings on 1 single verse of Scripture for over 1 hr. each evening & at the end said, "Well let's just leave it there for now". I sat there and thought, this is the God I must follow. This brother was from Scotland, not that it matters, but I knew deep within, my days for mediocrity were ended.

Well, brother, we are a part of a fellowship of the Heavens joined with quality here & now, & with a vast company of those who have advanced to Glory.

From Him, through Him, for Him

Surround yourself with quality :oldthumbsup:

That could mean both spiritual and worldly skilled people as well including having good reliable friends.

Many self help books and careers skill books give the same advice so there must be more than a grain of truth in it. It can be tough working out what quality is when you have never seen it before. Experience brings you the truth of this lesson but some including myself have been slow to work it out. Very True though and worthy of a place on your list.

I've been fortunate enough to strike Gold in the church I first joined - Great Pastor and some very spiritually gifted people who knew where the river flowed best and deepest and led the people to encounter God in a more fuller experience.

EZEKIEL 47:3
As the man went eastward with a measuring line in his hand, he measured off a thousand cubits and then led me through water that was ankle-deep. 4 He measured off another thousand cubits and led me through water that was knee-deep. He measured off another thousand and led me through water that was up to the waist. 5 He measured off another thousand, but now it was a river that I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in—a river that no one could cross. 6 He asked me, “Son of man, do you see this?”

My Number 2 on my list

GUARD YOUR HEART FOR IT AFFECTS EVERYTHING YOU DO
 
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FineLinen

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The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for "our God is a consuming fire;" (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord "came to cast fire into the earth," and desired nothing more than "that it should be already kindled;" (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,
Mark 9: 49-
For this is the very "baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire," (Matt. 3: 11) that "spirit of judgment and burning," promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for "He is like a refiner's fire, and like a fuller's soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness." (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ's flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)
And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For "the Lord will come with fire," and "by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many." (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that "warfare of the service of the tabernacle" (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.
HERE

One thing I keep wondering is: How can a physical thing like fire cause damage, pain or suffering to a spiritual thing like a soul?
 
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