WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Cis.jd, thanks for your post. Some comments for your consideration below.

I understand, but you are admitting that there are things you believe regardless of not being in the Bible but due to tradition.

When we are talking about the development of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures added to the bible are we talking about tradition or are we talking about God controlling what he wants to make up the Bible?

See, what you wrote is the true catholic stance. Everything you said, I agree with, and I can tell you that if you went to the Catholics here they will cosign with everything you just said. That is why we say "Apostolic tradition". It's carrying all the views and teachings of the early christians to our modern times because not all of it is documented in scripture. Paul says that in 2nd Thess.
Anybody can have their own points of view from what they've read in scripture and claim that they are divinely supported on their views. We've seen that with Mohammad; random Prosperity gosepl teachers, the thousands of protestant denom founders, with John Smith, Felix Manalo, and Charles Taze Russell, and even Fred Phelps. But none of them are consistent with what the Apostles past down. What Jesus taught his apostles they passed to their apostles, and their apostles passed it down to their apostles, and this leads all the way now. The point I am making is the logical fallacy of Protestants and their Sola Scriptura.. you guys talk so much about Catholics should follow the Bible alone, but look at that.. now there are "some" traditions that are acceptable such as the accepting of the OT and NT books.

Well brother Cis.jd, this is where we would disagree and why the scriptures were provided earlier in MATTHEW 15:3-9. As discussed earlier it is not tradition that is wrong in itself it is when man made teachings and traditions break the commandments of God and go against the WORD of God that Jesus says those who do these things are not following God.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though. I enjoyed reading your thoughts but we must BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of GOD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9 says that if we do not then we are not following God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is it possible to do both? For example is it possible to go to church on Sunday morning and at the same time obey God's word?

Hi GingerBeer, sorry I am trying to catch up on posting. We are free to worship God everyday of the week and I believe God wants us to do this. God's 4th commandment however is a specific day that we are to remember. It is a holy day that no work is to be conducted *EXODUS 20:8-11.

 

[Cis.jd]

When we are talking about the development of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures added to the bible are we talking about tradition or are we talking about God controlling what he wants to make up the Bible?

Both. Catholics believe that tradition is also controlled (or at least introduced) by God. Catholics will say that God guided the church in verifying the books that were on the table during the canonization of the NT.

Well brother Cis.jd, this is where we would disagree and why the scriptures were provided earlier in MATTHEW 15:3-9. snip

And i'm not disputing that.. but you need to be careful on what traditions you criticize to be made out of man and what tradition that was really passed on by God. If you believe that tradition can only be legit through the confirmation of scripture, then that returns you to the NT discussion we've been having.

As I said, Jesus taught his apostles and they passed on what he taught them to their apostles; and those apostles passed it on theirs, etc etc. Relying on Scripture alone can possibly break that - look at Felix Manalo. Read his bio: He moved to different christian denominations: From Catholicism, Presbyterian, Episcopal to even SDA. He left and even quarreled with all of them because their doctrines did not match what (he thinks) Scripture says.

He then made his own doctrine (or cult if you will) that he claims is true to God's word: that cult is known as the Iglesia Ni Cristo. They believe they are the church of the East stated in Revelations, and they don't believe (because scripture says) that Jesus is God made man. They claim the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, to the entire NT canon is all catholic made.
We know RCC didn't invent the trinity or wrote the NT, as to what INC and even Islam accuses.. because we see this being taught from the Apostles of Jesus and the early christians from 1-2AD.

 

[GingerBeer]

Hi GingerBeer, sorry I am trying to catch up on posting. We are free to worship God everyday of the week and I believe God wants us to do this. God's 4th commandment however is a specific day that we are to remember. It is a holy day that no work is to be conducted *EXODUS 20:8-11.

Does your reply mean that both tradition and the Law may be obeyed at the same time?

 

[klutedavid]

Yes, i understand this. I am not asking the TC out of ignorance, i just want to know why he believes something that isn't mentioned in scripture - the canon OT and NT.




I do agree and no Catholic will deny this. That is why we believe in both Scripture & tradition. Catholics never believed in tradition alone and at the same do not believe in Scripture alone. There has to be both. You've already detailed why Tradition with out scripture can be problematic, however you also have to take in note that not everything the apostles passed down is in written format but also oral.
Do you think the first Christians who died under Nero believed in Jesus because of what the scripture says? No. They saw and heard.. some of them did not even know Jesus during his life time such as Luke, but his faith was not introduced to him by scripture. That goes for all the apostles of Jesus' apostles, none of them followed what was in scripture because at that time there was no printed NT for them to follow. So you can see the beginnings of tradition and it's importance just by christianities history.

What Catholics are telling you is that God's word is more than just written format, it was passed on verbally as well. We are not telling you that scripture is to be denied but you can not just come up and make statements that scripture has to say this and that because at the end of the day, that NT that you guys proclaim as written word is not said in the Bible yet you believe it nevertheless because christians through out time have taught their children this on the way to you.

I would prefer what Paul said in his letters, against anyone else throughout church history.

Once Paul sent a letter to a church, we then have a written record from an apostle. Which we can all read and understand. Verifiable source!

Where as with a verbal instruction, it is often very difficult to verify that the tradition emanated from an apostle. For example, take the case of indulgences, give lots of money to the church removing the penalty for your sin. Do you think that was a verbal tradition handed down from an apostle?

I have no choice but to forfeit all church tradition and stick with Paul's letters. I am neither Catholic, Reformed or even Protestant.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello brother Ignatius the Kiwi, nice to see you again. Some comments for your consideration below.

Where do you find in scripture that the Lord's day is the Sabbath? Nowhere, thus we can only infer from the text and later sources what it could mean. Later Christian authors do not identify the Lord's day as the Sabbath. We also know that in Acts the Apostles did gather on the First day of the week to worship and have Eucharist.

We should believe God's WORD and follow it. The scripture is found in MATTHEW.

MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MEN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

I don't believe John in Revelation was incapable of writing Sabbath and I also don't believe later Christian authors so misunderstood their worship that they somehow confused the day which the community primarily worshiped on.

Jesus revealed himself to his disciples as the God of creation *JOHN 1:1-3; 14 and the maker of the Sabbath which he made for mankind *MARK 2:27-28. John was expressing what all the believers knew to be true. Jesus as God and the creator of the world was the LORD of ther SABBATH and as a result JESUS us LOVE of the SABBATH DAY. The LORD's DAY *MATTHEW 12:8.

Do not mince words or be polite either. You accusing those of us who do not primarily worship on Saturday to be in deliberate violation of God's law. Stick to it.

Well that is not true at all brother Ignatius the Kiwi, where have I ever stated such things? I am not here to argue with you. Do you have any scriptures to share for your teachings and the OP here? Thanks for sharing your thoughts however.

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Does your reply mean that both tradition and the Law may be obeyed at the same time?

Hello brother GingerBeer, nice to see you again. That is a great questions actually. The answer to this question lies in the very words of Jesus in MATTHEW 15:3-9.

There is nothing wrong with traditions by themselves. The question that needs to be considered as we have been discussing elsewhere is when is following the teachings and traditions wrong?

Jesus has this to say...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

According to Jesus if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of MEN over the WORD of GOD we are NOT following God.

Peter has this to say...

ACTS 5:29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

..............

CONCLUSION: If the teaching and traditions leads us break God's Commandments or away from following God's WORD in Spirit and in truth than we are not to follow them.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[GingerBeer]

CONCLUSION: If the teaching and traditions leads us break God's Commandments or away from following God's WORD in Spirit and in truth than we are not to follow them.

Then it is okay to go to church on Sunday morning?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Maybe, but it is not Holy Tradition, the alleged second (after the Bible) divine revelation which the Catholic churches use to define or determine religious dogma.

I think you are referring to traditions (or one of them), not Holy Tradition. If so, there is nothing wrong with customs or anything developing over time until and if they are used in place of or in addition to the Bible when determining what must be believed.

And it is not a tradition if someone found something long ago and people since that time have accepted it for what it was shown to be.

For example, the cure for a disease was discovered by a scientist several centuries ago; we today accept that it was correct and the method of treatment does work, so we agree with that original finding. But that isn't to say that we believe it simply by--or because of--tradition!

I think I understand a lot of what you're saying. However, how do we know which books are sacred scripture? How do we know that the 66 books of the Protestant Bible were divinely inspired but that the Book Of Say for Ezra was not divinely inspired. How do we know we must refer to something outside of biblical scripture? The books of the Bible Ascentia Lee. All claim to be divinely inspired yet some books like for Ezra. Are not accepted?

So doesn't that mandate and require some sort of extra biblical tradition to guide our selection of scripture?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Then it is okay to go to church on Sunday morning?

What does the Bible actually say about the Sabbath? Does it specifically specify? A particular day or does it simply say one day out of 7 every seventh day. I mean? How do we really know? When God started creation. Thousands and thousands of years ago. How do we know whether or not the legitimate seventh day of rest? Is on the day we call Saturday in English or the day we call Sunday in English? One day out of every 7 would still fulfill Biblical Commandments correct?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It does not matter which way you want to spin it with Paul or anyone else. Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath as did Jesus and all the Apostles. Paul kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles. *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4-5. This was the practice of all the Apostles and this is what they taught in the NEW COVENANT that to break any of God's Commandments was sin *JAMES 2:9-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments and just like all the other commandment if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Acts of the Apostles 13:1 began Paul's first missionary journey! Paul and Barnabas were going out to save people! Keeping the Sabbath on missionary journeys in trying to reach the lost so as to evangelize them is not the same thing as having fellowship with Christians. You do understand the difference, right? Seeking to save the lost is what was taking place in Acts of the Apostles 13:14, and in Acts of the Apostles 13:42-44. No worship of Christians only was taking place here on the Sabbath; Only the preaching of Jesus Christ to save the lost.

Paul's second missionary journey took place in Acts of the Apostles 15:36. So on the Sabbath, in Acts of the Apostles 16:13, Paul and Silas are seeking to talk to some Jewish women by a river whose hearts may be open to the gospel; Paul was not seeking to worship with other Christians here on the Sabbath. On Paul's second missionary journey: Paul and Silas were trying to reach the lost here! This was not a fellowship meeting of Christians only.

Continuing on on Paul's 2nd missionary Journey with Paul and Silas: In Acts of the Apostles 17:2-3; we see this spoken:

2 "...and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ."
(Acts of the Apostles 17:2-3).​

Why is Paul telling Christians about Jesus Christ?
This is not a Christian church!
This is not a place of fellowship of Christians only!
Paul is preaching here at Thessalonica!
He is trying to reach more for the cause of Christ!
It is why we read him preaching Christ in verse 3 above.

In Acts of the Apostles 18:1, Paul begins his 3rd missionary journey to Corinth. So in Acts of the Apostles 18:4-5, Paul again was in a synagogue for the express purpose of trying to reach Jews and Gentiles for Jesus Christ! This was a missionary journey! This was not a fellowship meeting among Christians! Keeping the Sabbath was something that was necessary as part of His ministry in order to preach Jesus Christ to them. Paul did not keep the Sabbath here because he was trying to keep the 4th commandment. He was trying to reach lost souls for Jesus.

Below we see in Scripture the gathering of Christians in fellowship together:

"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts of the Apostles 20:7).

"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (1 Corinthians 16:2).​

Notice it is on the first day of the week that they broke bread and gathered the collections. This was not a missionary journey taking place in these verses. It was the gathering of fellowship of Christians. Why would they gather on the first day of the week? What possible reason can this be?

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." (Mark 16:9).​

Jesus was already risen on the 1st day and Christians discovered the empty tomb! They were celebrating His resurrection! Think. This is why we call it the Lord's day! Jesus is Lord. He has risen! The rest is in Jesus Christ and the rest is no longer on the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day observance was a way of pointing us to Jesus Christ. Think, my friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Acts of the Apostles 13:1 began Paul's first missionary journey! Paul and Barnabas were going out to save people! Keeping the Sabbath on missionary journeys in trying to reach the lost so as to evangelize them is not the same thing as having fellowship with Christians. You do understand the difference, right? Seeking to save the lost is what was taking place in Acts of the Apostles 13:14, and in Acts of the Apostles 13:42-44. No worship of Christians only was taking place here on the Sabbath; Only the preaching of Jesus Christ to save the lost.

Paul's second missionary journey took place in Acts of the Apostles 15:36. So on the Sabbath, in Acts of the Apostles 16:13, Paul and Silas are seeking to talk to some Jewish women by a river whose hearts may be open to the gospel; Paul was not seeking to worship with other Christians here on the Sabbath. On Paul's second missionary journey: Paul and Silas were trying to reach the lost here! This was not a fellowship meeting of Christians only.

Continuing on on Paul's 2nd missionary Journey with Paul and Silas: In Acts of the Apostles 17:2-3; we see this spoken:

2 "...and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ."
(Acts of the Apostles 17:2-3).​

Why is Paul telling Christians about Jesus Christ?
This is not a Christian church!
This is not a place of fellowship of Christians only!
Paul is preaching here at Thessalonica!
He is trying to reach more for the cause of Christ!
It is why we read him preaching Christ in verse 3 above.

In Acts of the Apostles 18:1, Paul begins his 3rd missionary journey to Corinth. So in Acts of the Apostles 18:4-5, Paul again was in a synagogue for the express purpose of trying to reach Jews and Gentiles for Jesus Christ! This was a missionary journey! This was not a fellowship meeting among Christians! Keeping the Sabbath was something that was necessary as part of His ministry in order to preach Jesus Christ to them. Paul did not keep the Sabbath here because he was trying to keep the 4th commandment. He was trying to reach lost souls for Jesus.

Below we see in Scripture the gathering of Christians in fellowship together:

"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts of the Apostles 20:7).​

​

Hello Jason, nice to see you again.

It does not matter which way you want to spin it with Paul or anyone else. Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath as did Jesus and all the Apostles. Paul kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles.

You state above that Paul was not keeping the SABBATH. Jason, where does it say in God's WORD that believers did not obey God's 4th commandment Sabbath? You do know that it was Pauls custom to keep the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles right?

ACTS 17:2 As was Paul's custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.

Looks like Paul and the Apostles had the same custom as Jesus did..

LUKE 4:16, And he [JESUS] came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

My friend God's WORD disagrees with you. Please read *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4-5. Sabbath keeping was the practice of all the Apostles and this is what they taught in the NEW COVENANT that to break any of God's Commandments was sin *JAMES 2:9-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20.

All the Apostles were going about doing missionary work nearly everyday of the week. This is not relavent to them keeping the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles as shown in the scriptures above.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments and just like all the other commandment if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

..........

Now Jason, this missionary thing is not relevant to Pauls custom of keeping the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles. I am sure he shared the gospel every chance that he had even on the Sabbath which was his custom to keep the same as Jesus did ACTS 17:2; LUKE 4:16.

Now here are the key questions there coming now are you ready?

1. If Paul was only keeping the Sabbath for missionary work then why would he keep it with the gentiles? According to you gentiles don't need to keep it do they? Yet in Acts 13:32-44 we see a request from the Gentiles to hear Paul preach the Gospel the next three Sabbaths? Why did they need to wait until the Sabbath to hear God's WORD?

2. If Paul was only keeping the Sabbath for missionary work how could it be his custom to keep it every Sabbath *ACTS 17:2 which BTW as shown above was the same custom Jesus had *LUKE 4:16?

Kind of not going your way brother Jason is it?

"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (1 Corinthians 16:2).

I am not sure of your point here in 1 Corinthians 16:2 but the reason why the believers were to prepare their offerings on the frist day of the week was that Paul was passing through and needed to collect the offerings to Jerusalem *1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-8.

So my friend no where in this chapter does it say that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day does it?

Notice it is on the first day of the week that they broke bread and gathered the collections. This was not a missionary journey taking place in these verses. It was the gathering of fellowship of Christians. Why would they gather on the first day of the week? What possible reason can this be?

I am assuming your talking about ACTS 20:7? You do not that the disciples gathered together on this day to have a meal together because Paul was departing the next day right?

ACTS 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, [bread here is lechem; ἅρτος which means bread or food in general] here is Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

So what are the scriptures saying? The disciples met together with Paul for a meal together because Paul was departing the next day. They were not going to see him again for some time. Now, this scripture does not say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it?

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." (Mark 16:9). Jesus was already risen on the 1st day and Christians discovered the empty tomb! They were celebrating His resurrection! Think. This is why we call it the Lord's day! Jesus is Lord. He has risen! The rest is in Jesus Christ and the rest is no longer on the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day observance was a way of pointing us to Jesus Christ. Think, my friend

Now look at what you have said above you have no scripture for anything you have claimed. The only scripture you supplied was MARK 16:9 which says; Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons. How does that support anything you are claiming above? Where does this scripture say Sunday is the Lord's Day? Where does it say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

You do see Jason nothing you have provided here supports anything that you are claiming right?

Hope this helps[/QUOTE]

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then it is okay to go to church on Sunday morning?

Hello brother GingerBeer, nice to see you again. You are free to do anything you wish as long as you do not sin [break God's commandments] in doing what your doing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

​

Hello Jason, nice to see you again.

It does not matter which way you want to spin it with Paul or anyone else. Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath as did Jesus and all the Apostles. Paul kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles.

You state above that Paul was not keeping the SABBATH. Jason, where does it say in God's WORD that believers did not obey God's 4th commandment Sabbath? You do know that it was Pauls custom to keep the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles right?

ACTS 17:2 As was Paul's custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.

Looks like Paul and the Apostles had the same custom as Jesus did..

LUKE 4:16, And he [JESUS] came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

My friend God's WORD disagrees with you. Please read *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4-5. Sabbath keeping was the practice of all the Apostles and this is what they taught in the NEW COVENANT that to break any of God's Commandments was sin *JAMES 2:9-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20.

All the Apostles were going about doing missionary work nearly everyday of the week. This is not relavent to them keeping the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles as shown in the scriptures above.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments and just like all the other commandment if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

..........

Now Jason, this missionary thing is not relevant to Pauls custom of keeping the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles. I am sure he shared the gospel every chance that he had even on the Sabbath which was his custom to keep the same as Jesus did ACTS 17:2; LUKE 4:16.

Now here are the key questions there coming now are you ready?

1. If Paul was only keeping the Sabbath for missionary work then why would he keep it with the gentiles? According to you gentiles don't need to keep it do they? Yet in Acts 13:32-44 we see a request from the Gentiles to hear Paul preach the Gospel the next three Sabbaths? Why did they need to wait until the Sabbath to hear God's WORD?

2. If Paul was only keeping the Sabbath for missionary work how could it be his custom to keep it every Sabbath *ACTS 17:2 which BTW as shown above was the same custom Jesus had *LUKE 4:16?

Kind of not going your way brother Jason is it?



I am not sure of your point here in 1 Corinthians 16:2 but the reason why the believers were to prepare their offerings on the frist day of the week was that Paul was passing through and needed to collect the offerings to Jerusalem *1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-8.

So my friend no where in this chapter does it say that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day does it?



I am assuming your talking about ACTS 20:7? You do not that the disciples gathered together on this day to have a meal together because Paul was departing the next day right?

ACTS 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, [bread here is lechem; ἅρτος which means bread or food in general] here is Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

So what are the scriptures saying? The disciples met together with Paul for a meal together because Paul was departing the next day. They were not going to see him again for some time. Now, this scripture does not say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it?



Now look at what you have said above you have no scripture for anything you have claimed. The only scripture you supplied was MARK 16:9 which says; Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons. How does that support anything you are claiming above? Where does this scripture say Sunday is the Lord's Day? Where does it say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

You do see Jason nothing you have provided here supports anything that you are claiming right?

Hope this helps

In Acts of the Apostles 20:7: It does not say the reason the brethren gathered on the first day of the week was because he was departing the next day. It merely records his departure the next day and does not say that is why they gathered.

You are making assumptions in Scripture that are not there. The text does not say, “And so Paul preached to them on the first day because he was departing the next day.”

Also, in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, this was an order to keep the collection every first day of the week and this order was also given to Galatia.

“Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God’s people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don’t wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once.” (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) (NLT).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What does the Bible actually say about the Sabbath? Does it specifically specify? A particular day or does it simply say one day out of 7 every seventh day. I mean? How do we really know? When God started creation. Thousands and thousands of years ago. How do we know whether or not the legitimate seventh day of rest? Is on the day we call Saturday in English or the day we call Sunday in English? One day out of every 7 would still fulfill Biblical Commandments correct?

Hello brother Erik, nice to see you again. Good question. I guess you need to look at with the 4th commandment actually says..

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER, the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY?>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. [reference to GENESIS 2:1-3]

So the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH day that GOD BLESSED and made as a HOLY DAY that no work is to be conducted. It is a day of rest and a memorial of creation. The Jews have been keeping the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH for 4000 years already through to the time of Jesus and the Apostles this day has not changed and according to the scriptures starts at God's time which is FRIDAY SUNSET in todays weekly nomenculture to SATURDAY SUNSET.

Hope this is helpful nice to see you again

 

[Cis.jd]

I would prefer what Paul said in his letters, against anyone else throughout church history.

Once Paul sent a letter to a church, we then have a written record from an apostle. Which we can all read and understand. Verifiable source!

Where as with a verbal instruction, it is often very difficult to verify that the tradition emanated from an apostle. For example, take the case of indulgences, give lots of money to the church removing the penalty for your sin. Do you think that was a verbal tradition handed down from an apostle?

I have no choice but to forfeit all church tradition and stick with Paul's letters. I am neither Catholic, Reformed or even Protestant.

I respect your views. I too have been developing distaste in going to church. I've been moving from denom to denom and have seen that every single one of them are corrupt. I only favor Catholicism when it comes just academic/apologetics and just spirituality.

My days of practicing my religion is just going in a church; praying and maybe just sitting down to have quite time and meditate.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It does not say the reason the brethren gathered on the first day of the week was because he was departing the next day. It merely records his departure the next day and does not say that is why they gathered. You are making assumptions in Scripture that are not there. The text does not say, “And so Paul preached to them on the first day because he was departing the next day.”

Hello Jason I am not saying what your saying above. Paul was departing the next day look at the scripture... ACTS 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day; and continued his speech until midnight.

Also, in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, this was an order to keep the collection every first day of the week and this order was also given to Galatia.“Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God’s people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don’t wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once.” (1 Corinthians 16:1-2) (NLT).

Jason where does it say in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 that it is a continual order? Are you reading into the scriptures something that is not written? Read the scripture in context 1 Corinthians 16:1-7 says Paul wanted them to get their offerings ready because he was passing through on his way to Jerusalem. This does not say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? You have to read a lot into the scriptures to come up with that conclusion dont you think?

Hope this helps

 

[Albion]

I think I understand a lot of what you're saying. However, how do we know which books are sacred scripture?

In several different councils, the church made the determination. There has been a general consensus among Christians of different denominations ever since that that was a correct decision. However, it is also important to note that the selection of the particular books that are in the canon--the Bible--was not made on the spot or at random. Every one of them was already in general use among the various congregations, dioceses, etc. of the world before these councils met. They were all already accepted, with the exception of the three that are listed last in the New Testament, as being the word of God.

That said, it could certainly be asked, "What if the church was mistaken about that?"

Theoretically, that is a possibility, but then what is the solution? Other books? Start over? One thing that I would say is not in order is to turn instead to something MUCH LESS reliable and without any Scriptural basis at all--which is tradition.

Not that tradition is meaningless if used by us to understand better, but as the alternative to the word of God? No, that doesn't make sense.

How do we know that the 66 books of the Protestant Bible were divinely inspired but that the Book Of Say for Ezra was not divinely inspired. How do we know we must refer to something outside of biblical scripture? The books of the Bible Ascentia Lee. All claim to be divinely inspired yet some books like for Ezra. Are not accepted?

So doesn't that mandate and require some sort of extra biblical tradition to guide our selection of scripture?

If you are referring to Holy Tradition--the alternative used by the Catholic churches--why would it be the answer? It is nothing more than the church leaders, claiming to be personally guided by God, saying that something or other that was voiced or believed by some people (but not all) in the past looks good to them, so lets stipulate that God was speaking though them! That process fails the test of what the word tradition means, for one thing.

As for books that were placed in the Apocrypha and later judged, by the Protestants, not to be inspired writings....that decision is because, from the beginning of the Christian era, those books were considered to be part of the Hebrew Bible by SOME Hebrews but not so by other Hebrews.

The whole of the Old Testament was carried over, but these were in dispute. Therefore, they were put in the Christian canon, the Bible, provisionally. Then, during the Reformation, the Protestants generally continued to use them but said that they were good for understanding the mind of the Hebrews in the several centuries before Christ but not for setting any doctrine. They are, BTW, written in a style quite unlike all the other books of the OT. The Catholic Church also removed a few of them from their translations of the Bible at about the same time as the Protestants did.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello Jason I am not saying what your saying above. Paul was departing the next day look at the scripture... ACTS 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day; and continued his speech until midnight.

Jason where does it say in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 that it is a continual order? Are you reading into the scriptures something that is not written? Read the scripture in context 1 Corinthians 16:1-7 says Paul wanted them to get their offerings ready because he was passing through on his way to Jerusalem. This does not say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? You have to read a lot into the scriptures to come up with that conclusion dont you think?

Hope this helps

“On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight.” (Acts of the Apostles 20:7) (NLT).

No. It doesn’t say what you just said.
You are just bolding the text and you are suggesting that it is saying what you are saying. The text you bolded does not say, “And the reason why they gathered on the 1st day is because Paul was departing the next day.”

You need to add the words “the reason why...” in the text to prove that this is what it is saying.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But there is evidence. Just look their interviews or research how they were born. You can't deny that they used verses to back of their doctrines and views. Just go to youtube and search Harold Camping, look at all his bible verses that he used to back up his crazy views about the world ending on 2011. Everyone has their own "Sola Scriptura". Every denomination.

If i brought you to an Episcopalian church and made you speak your doctrinal beliefs, they will argue back at you, using bible verses as to why it is wrong. Every protestant denomination was born this way and for you to say there is no evidence means you have not even researched on history.
Additionally, you just like the TC have not yet answered that challenge of why you agree with the books that are canon with out any scripture confirmation. So you also believe in something that is not confirmed or stated in scripture so it's very ironic for a Protestant to be so keen on telling a Catholic about "what the bible says".

But if the Sola Scriptura position is true (and it is), then this only proves that men are either not interpreting God’s Word correctly to begin with because they prefer their sin, or they have fallen away from the faith. It is an internal problem and not Sola Scriptura. You fail to understand that John tells us about brethren who did not need any man to teach them because they have the anointing of the Spirit. This truth goes against what you are saying here. You also should read my Biblical defense for Sola Scriptura. I posted two links for you to another set of posts of mine on this (here at CF). If you have any regard for what the Bible says, you should at least look at the verses I presented.