Kavanaugh - Renate Alumnius

[iluvatar5150]

And in today's episode of "What Did Judge Kavanaugh Do Now?":

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

One of the captions on ol' Brett's yearbook photo is "Renate Alumnius". Elsewhere throughout the yearbook are other variations on that theme, such as "Renate Alumnus" - all suggesting that the fine upstanding young men featured in the associated photos had some sort of.. er... relationship with a certain classmate, one Renate Schroeder Dolphin. So fond of her allegedly accommodating nature were they that another student even penned a poem in her honor:

“You need a date
And it’s getting late
So don’t hesitate
To call Renate.”

Brett Kavanaugh’s page in his high school yearbook offers a glimpse of the teenage years of the man who is now President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee: lots of football, plenty of drinking, parties at the beach. Among the reminiscences about sports and booze is a mysterious entry: “Renate Alumnius.”

The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school.

Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.

“They were very disrespectful, at least verbally, with Renate,” said Sean Hagan, a Georgetown Prep student at the time, referring to Judge Kavanaugh and his teammates. “I can’t express how disgusted I am with them, then and now.”

 

[hedrick]

With this, the fraternity he was a member of, and his reputation for dealing with female staff (‘No Accident’ Brett Kavanaugh’s Female Law Clerks ‘Looked Like Models,’ Yale Professor Told Students), this isn't someone I'd like to see making decisions on women's rights. Even if he didn't almost rape someone (and I think the probability is that he did, though it's far from proven).

 

[rambot]

There are plenty of Republicans who don't have a checkered past with viewing women as sex toys.

Why don't we put them into positions of power?

Can a Trump supporter help me with that one?

 

[Saucy]

I love how your source says it 'suggests' that's what it means. Dolphin herself denies even kissing Judge Kavenaugh. Another baseless claim by Democrats grasping at straws. I wonder what tomorrow's amazing revelation will be. He accidentally killed a fly one time?

Dolphin asserted in a statement through her lawyer that Kavanaugh “must have me confused with someone else, because I never kissed him.”

Woman furious with Brett Kavanaugh's ‘Renate Alumnius’ listing in high school yearbook

 

[rambot]

I love how your source says it 'suggests' that's what it means. Dolphin herself denies even kissing Judge Kavenaugh. Another baseless claim by Democrats grasping at straws. I wonder what tomorrow's amazing revelation will be. He accidentally killed a fly one time?
Woman furious with Brett Kavanaugh's ‘Renate Alumnius’ listing in high school yearbook

You're right. It's FAR more respectful towards women to think of them as a sex toys when you haven't kissed them and you only spread and propagate malicious rumours about them.


I mean he's ONLY a Supreme Court Judge right? He doesn't have to have THAT high moral character.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I love how your source says it 'suggests' that's what it means. Dolphin herself denies even kissing Judge Kavenaugh.

None of it means they actually had relations with her - just that they were claiming to have done so. Even if they never laid a finger on her, it's still a pretty crude thing to do.

I've said some pretty crude things in my life. Though I've never falsely claimed to have bedded anyone, I'm sure some of the other guys in my senior class did at one time or another. But I don't recall anyone ever memorializing it, or any of our other crude in-jokes, in print like this. Maybe I just went to a better class of Catholic school.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I forgot to mention - in that same caption, his comment to his buddy Judge also contains a pretty crude reference. Since this was written in the early 80s, there's some question as to the exact definition to which he was referring (slang changes after all), but none of them are good.

 

[rambot]

Why is it that a person would want someone with our own low moral degradations to sit on the Supreme Court? Shouldn't it be populated by folks who display consistent high moral character?

 

[essentialsaltes]

I love how your source says it 'suggests' that's what it means. Dolphin herself denies even kissing Judge Kavenaugh.

She also found the statement highly objectionable, even if the precise meaning is not known: “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue."

She didn't deny kissing Kavanaugh to defend him, but rather to defend herself from this imputation. I've heard she's withdrawn her signature from the 'support' letter.

 

[hedrick]

I would feel better if he said that he had done some pretty crude things in his youth, but he's come to appreciate why they were wrong. It's the denial that bothers me.

 

[Saucy]

None of it means they actually had relations with her - just that they were claiming to have done so. Even if they never laid a finger on her, it's still a pretty crude thing to do.

I've said some pretty crude things in my life. Though I've never falsely claimed to have bedded anyone, I'm sure some of the other guys in my senior class did at one time or another. But I don't recall anyone ever memorializing it, or any of our other crude in-jokes, in print like this. Maybe I just went to a better class of Catholic school.

No, that's what the media is trying to say it means. This woman is a friend of Kavanaugh's. She signed the letter attesting to his great character. It could've been a friendship thing like they were a club of friends or something. Not this sex cult whatever the media is trying to portray.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Why is it that a person would want someone with our own low moral degradations to sit on the Supreme Court? Shouldn't it be populated by folks who display consistent high moral character?

It's the grown-up version of a participation trophy. As a kid, rewarding the winners (supposedly) highlights the gap between those who can perform well and those who can't, undermining the self-esteem of those who don't measure up. As an adult, establishing minimum qualifications of behavior and expertise for certain positions highlights just how far behind <the best> that <the rest> really are.

Joe Blow sitting at home knows he's never going to land a gig on the USSC because he didn't graduate top of his class at Yale Law. But by removing the standards for personal character for that job, he can convince himself that he's at least good enough as a person to have landed the job had he had the right pedigree.

 

[Saucy]

I would feel better if he said that he had done some pretty crude things in his youth, but he's come to appreciate why they were wrong. It's the denial that bothers me.

There are people out there who didn't harlot around, didn't drink, didn't do drugs, etc. I'm one of them. I never even went to a dance. I was friends with everyone. It may bother you, but it might be the truth that he IS an upstanding guy, as many women have sworn to. They are trying to smear him and dragging up every little thing they can and swinging it way out of context.

 

[Saucy]

Why is it that a person would want someone with our own low moral degradations to sit on the Supreme Court? Shouldn't it be populated by folks who display consistent high moral character?

By all accounts and witnesses, Judge Kavenaugh is a high moral character. But even saying so apparently bothers some people. They mocked Pence horribly for his devotion to his wife.

 

[iluvatar5150]

No, that's what the media is trying to say it means. This woman is a friend of Kavanaugh's. She signed the letter attesting to his great character.

...before she was aware of the yearbook comments.

It could've been a friendship thing like they were a club of friends or something. Not this sex cult whatever the media is trying to portray.

Yeah, okay. And I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[iluvatar5150]

There are people out there who didn't harlot around, didn't drink,

Kavanaugh is not one of those.

 

[rambot]

By all accounts and witnesses, Judge Kavenaugh is a high moral character. But even saying so apparently bothers some people. They mocked Pence horribly for his devotion to his wife.

1) Not by all accounts. But that's cool that you can choose what you mean by "all accounts".
2) "They" didn't mock pence for his devotion to his wife. They mocked him because he didn't want to be alone with another woman because that wasn't "right", or whatever. That said, I don't know what you mean by "they". There probably are SOME that did that but the suspicious "they" makes things seem far more widespread than it would have been. I saw plenty mock his lack of willingess to exhibit self control.

 

[LostMarbels]

There are plenty of Republicans who don't have a checkered past with viewing women as sex toys.

Why don't we put them into positions of power?

Can a Trump supporter help me with that one?

No one here went to high school? Am I the only one? Isn't sex and partying in high school about is alien as it is to college? Or was it only me because I had a Letterman Jacket and was popular?

Maybe Im weird but I have been to some par-tays.... and I don't think a single one of those girls gave a hoot if I was Dem or Rep. They just asked if I had a condom. I don't get what world you are from. Because in my high school, a lot of women thought they were sex toys and flaunted it. They were 100% down and hunting. They were on the prowl as much as the boys. And if we thought a guy was being aggressive he got the crap stomped out of him and/or was made to leave the party.

What part of the world are you from that the teenagers of your area didn't sneak off to parties or to have sex? Even skip class?

Don't even suggest they might smoke pot!!! NO WAY!! couldn't happen.....

I keep hearing "high moral character". Of a kid... in high school... If he did not rape her, or the situation did not happen then the very worst is he was a normal teen. Went to football games, pride rallies, and other 'extracurricular' activities.

That being said... there were some that were a bit more moral and/or christian then me at the time. There are some kids that have never even been to a party. Thats not abnormal either. It also did not necessarily make them a better adult, or a more responsible member of society once we matured. I just have a lot more to answer for then they do.

Again, it boils down to the accusation for me. Whether or not he has been to wild parties or had sex as a high schooler means nothing to me. I would be concerned if he was still doing it.

 

[rambot]

No one here went to high school? Am I the only one? Isn't sex and partying in high school about is alien as it is to college? Or was it only me because I had a Letterman Jacket and was popular?

I was popular and I went to parties but I didn't drink often in high school.

Maybe Im weird but I have been to some par-tays.... and I don't think a single one of those girls gave a hoot if I was Dem or Rep. They just asked if I had a condom. I don't get what world you are from.

Same world as you.

Because in my high school, a lot of women thought they were sex toys and flaunted it. They were 100% down and hunting. They were on the prowl as much as the boys. And if we thought a guy was being aggressive he got the crap stomped out of him and/or was made to leave the party.

Ahhh....so if "you" thought. So what if you weren't there? What happenned behind closed doors? It is INCREDIBLY common for perpetuators of that violence to say two things:
1) No one is going to believe you
2) If you tell anyone [fill in something awful happenning to someone"]
In neither case is a third party going to do anything.
So essentially, your rule, in practical purposes was don't do anything disrespectful in front of me.

What part of the world are you from that the teenagers of your area didn't sneak off to parties or to have sex? Even skip class?

Why are we talking about sex and skipping classes LM? I thought this discussion was about unwanted sexual advances? Could you stay on topic and not try to downplay or misconstrue those two VERY different ideas? Underage sex, on it's own means nothing if it's consensual. Does it seem insane to think that nonconsensual sex is not okay? Because THAT is the rubric I have.

You've attempted to turn my argument and try to make me look like some kind of Victorian mixed Puritan. I am neither of those things, and neither is my argument.

I keep hearing "high moral character". Of a kid... in high school... If he did not rape her, or the situation did not happen then the very worst is he was a normal teen. Went to football games, pride rallies, and other 'extracurricular' activities.

Essentially spreading rumours calling a girl a harlot should NOT be normalized behaviour.

Again, it boils down to the accusation for me. Whether or not he has been to wild parties or had sex as a high schooler means nothing to me. I would be concerned if he was still doing it.[/QUOTE]I agree with 90% of this. For me this issue is, how consensual were his activities and, if they were not consensual, would he own up to that.

 

[LostMarbels]

2) "They" didn't mock pence for his devotion to his wife. They mocked him because he didn't want to be alone with another woman because that wasn't "right", or whatever. That said, I don't know what you mean by "they". There probably are SOME that did that but the suspicious "they" makes things seem far more widespread than it would have been. I saw plenty mock his lack of willingess to exhibit self control.

I am 6'6" and 297 lbs. I am a rather large and muscular man. No one will believe a word I say if a women decides to lie against me. I go nowhere with a women without someone else there. Even if you are not a big person, it doesn't take much for a women to entrap a man by claiming rape in today's society.

I do not watch or hold, hug, tickle other peoples children either. I am from the era of the 'kids table'. 'Hush, an adult is speaking' and kids play with kids in the yard/other room while the adults are hanging out.

Ahhh....so if "you" thought. So what if you weren't there? What happenned behind closed doors? It is INCREDIBLY common for perpetuators of that violence to say two

If you are stating that we couldn't stop what we didn't see you are correct. Thats not my point. Most men even at drunken parties will defend, not rape women.

Underage sex, on it's own means nothing if it's consensual. Does it seem insane to think that nonconsensual sex is not okay? Because THAT is the rubric I have.

That goes without question. I am attempting to point out being a teen, with other teens, at a party is nothing strange. If he did nothing his actions aren't really questionable. Seems that some make him out to be some animal because of activities at high school.

Essentially spreading rumours calling a girl a harlot should NOT be normalized behaviour.

A girl likewise 'shouldn't' call a boy a rapist just because she is too embarrassed to admit she had sex with him. Or make fun of a guy because he didn't want to have sex. Girls shouldn't lie about a boy because they are jealous of their current girlfriend. Exgirlfreinds shouldn't lie about a man 'so no one else has them either.'

Were talking about high school gossip here.

I agree with 90% of this. For me this issue is, how consensual were his activities and, if they were not consensual, would he own up to that.

I don't think that is the issue. This situation applies to Occam's razor. The more 'if's (assumptions) you have to apply to substantiate the claim the less likely it becomes. There is no proof, just more questions.