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Kavanaugh - Renate Alumnius

GoldenBoy89

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And in today's episode of "What Did Judge Kavanaugh Do Now?":

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

One of the captions on ol' Brett's yearbook photo is "Renate Alumnius". Elsewhere throughout the yearbook are other variations on that theme, such as "Renate Alumnus" - all suggesting that the fine upstanding young men featured in the associated photos had some sort of.. er... relationship with a certain classmate, one Renate Schroeder Dolphin. So fond of her allegedly accommodating nature were they that another student even penned a poem in her honor:

“You need a date
And it’s getting late
So don’t hesitate
To call Renate.”
"Oh, that's just locker room talk!"

/s
 
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Bumble Bee

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If high school locker room talk is the standard we are using to determine whether someone is qualified for a high political post nearly 40 years later, then we need to remove every single person from office because there is no one qualified.
 
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Sistrin

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You're right. It's FAR more respectful towards women to think of them as a sex toys when you haven't kissed them and you only spread and propagate malicious rumours about them.

I take it you were never in the Eighth Grade, much less High School. The fact there were girls in my High School class I thought were attractive and may have at one time or another momentarily found desirable does not mean I actually had sex with them.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I take it you were never in the Eighth Grade, much less High School. The fact there were girls in my High School class I thought were attractive and may have at one time or another momentarily found desirable does not mean I actually had sex with them.

The issue is the spreading of rumors, not the finding someone to be attractive.
 
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Sistrin

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On the plus side... I'm really starting to like this new sexually liberal Republican Party. Welcome to the 21st century.

What total crap.
 
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rambot

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I take it you were never in the Eighth Grade, much less High School. The fact there were girls in my High School class I thought were attractive and may have at one time or another momentarily found desirable does not mean I actually had sex with them.
Again, spreading malicious rumours is not healthy, kind or respectful. There is a CHASM of difference between thinking a girl is beautiful/hot and having THOUGHTS of wanting to have sex with her, and spreading malicious lies about her.

See cause here's the thing. You think this behaviour is typical. And yet I know many, many men who did not write or say those things about women.

Until you accept that it is not a universal truth of men to behave that way, I can only hope you don't have daughters who have those things said about them.
 
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rambot

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I am 6'6" and 297 lbs. I am a rather large and muscular man. No one will believe a word I say if a women decides to lie against me. I go nowhere with a women without someone else there.
Funny. I'm 6'1" and the same (though much less muscular). I had an allegation put against me at my work. That said, my work was populated by mentally unwell individuals and all levels above me (to say nothing of my 16 team members) did not believe the allegation for a second (it was the 4th one the girl had made against an adult male in her life...so a bit of a "cry wolf" scenario). I'll tell you right now, after the shock of the information coming at me, I had the worst 1.5 hours of my entire life. HAnds down. Nothing can compare to the terrible thoughts and feelings I was having.

Even if you are not a big person, it doesn't take much for a women to entrap a man by claiming rape in today's society.
If you treat the average woman with respect, help me understand why you would worry about that even a little bit.

If you are stating that we couldn't stop what we didn't see you are correct. Thats not my point. Most men even at drunken parties will defend, not rape women.
I can understand that and I don't doubt it. MY point (That may have been missed), is that it is not hard at ALL for victims to be intimidated into not sharing their information with anyone ever. A male friend of mine who is shorter in stature was confronted at a party by a mutual friend of everyone at that party (this occurred before he knew me). He was, essentially, being roughly cornered in a room that was, not 15 minutes before that packed with people and told (After threats from this larger fellow) "no one is going to believe you anyways". NOBODY at the party knew that happenned until years later after my friend left his hometown. THIS is what victims deal with.
That said, you will find PLENTY of video evidence online, if you are depraved enough to look for it, of women getting raped and filmed infront of groups of men/boys WITH camera and it gets put online. This is something that people feel emboldenned enough to do now AND TO SHARE IT WITH the entire world. I'm glad YOUR friends would protect women, but trust me, there are many, MANY men who would feel no such compunction.
That goes without question. I am attempting to point out being a teen, with other teens, at a party is nothing strange. If he did nothing his actions aren't really questionable. Seems that some make him out to be some animal because of activities at high school.
I think it's more that they question and worry about his attitude and underlying presumptions about women.
A girl likewise 'shouldn't' call a boy a rapist just because she is too embarrassed to admit she had sex with him. Or make fun of a guy because he didn't want to have sex. Girls shouldn't lie about a boy because they are jealous of their current girlfriend. Exgirlfreinds shouldn't lie about a man 'so no one else has them either.'
Absolutely. And when it comes to false rape allegations I FIRMLY believe those perpetuating that need to have a gigantic book thrown at them, sued for ALL they are worth, and put behind bars for MINIMALLY the amount of time their victim was.
Were talking about high school gossip here.
Well, we're also talking about the potential character of a Supreme Court judge who would be able to stay in that position for the rest of his/her entire life.

I don't think that is the issue. This situation applies to Occam's razor. The more 'if's (assumptions) you have to apply to substantiate the claim the less likely it becomes. There is no proof, just more questions.
But wait: Wasn't your argument above that "this is just high schoolers being high schoolers". Because that is a VERY simple hypothesis with no "ifs" whatsoever. However, it IS loaded with a lot of other subtle messages.
 
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Ana the Ist

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And in today's episode of "What Did Judge Kavanaugh Do Now?":

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

One of the captions on ol' Brett's yearbook photo is "Renate Alumnius". Elsewhere throughout the yearbook are other variations on that theme, such as "Renate Alumnus" - all suggesting that the fine upstanding young men featured in the associated photos had some sort of.. er... relationship with a certain classmate, one Renate Schroeder Dolphin. So fond of her allegedly accommodating nature were they that another student even penned a poem in her honor:

“You need a date
And it’s getting late
So don’t hesitate
To call Renate.”

Odd what makes the news these days. Is it a surprise to anyone that this sort of thing might be in the past of some elected/appointed officials?
 
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Ana the Ist

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I think it's more that they question and worry about his attitude and underlying presumptions about women.
Absolutely. And when it comes to false rape allegations I FIRMLY believe those perpetuating that need to have a gigantic book thrown at them, sued for ALL they are worth, and put behind bars for MINIMALLY the amount of time their victim was.
Well, we're also talking about the potential character of a Supreme Court judge who would be able to stay in that position for the rest of his/her entire life.

Do you think it's fair to judge who this guy is on allegations of his possible behavior as a teenager?
 
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LostMarbels

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If you treat the average woman with respect, help me understand why you would worry about that even a little bit.

Abstain from all appearance of evil. It looks like something that it's not. Even if I was best friends with a mans wife, I would not go to their house before her husband got home. Doesn't look right. No need for me to even be alone with her. Same could be said with me being a married man. Why go somewhere and hang around with a woman, or women alone? But if my wife is sitting there, who can say I'm seeing another women? Or suspect me in doing something wrong.

Secondly, women can lie as well. Or even misinterpret your intentions. So having another person there just helps.

I can understand that and I don't doubt it. MY point (That may have been missed), is that it is not hard at ALL for victims to be intimidated into not sharing their information with anyone ever. A male friend of mine who is shorter in stature was confronted at a party by a mutual friend of everyone at that party (this occurred before he knew me). He was, essentially, being roughly cornered in a room that was, not 15 minutes before that packed with people and told (After threats from this larger fellow) "no one is going to believe you anyways". NOBODY at the party knew that happenned until years later after my friend left his hometown. THIS is what victims deal with.

I get what you are saying.

I think it's more that they question and worry about his attitude and underlying presumptions about women.

I think it's more that they question an alleged supposition of 4 years in high school over decades of service as a credible man.


Absolutely. And when it comes to false rape allegations I FIRMLY believe those perpetuating that need to have a gigantic book thrown at them, sued for ALL they are worth, and put behind bars for MINIMALLY the amount of time their victim was.
Well, we're also talking about the potential character of a Supreme Court judge who would be able to stay in that position for the rest of his/her entire life.

I believe they should be charged and face an equal time in jail that the accused was facing if the accusation can be proven to be malice.

But wait: Wasn't your argument above that "this is just high schoolers being high schoolers". Because that is a VERY simple hypothesis with no "ifs" whatsoever. However, it IS loaded with a lot of other subtle messages.

If you think there is anything subtle about me... you have got to be the only one. I make it a point to be as blunt as possible.

Maybe I misconveyed myself. I thought I pointed out I was talking about going to parties and the like. It almost appears that some are saying that because he went to a party or had sex in high school he cannot be anything of merit in life.

Rape is never ok. Ever.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Odd what makes the news these days. Is it a surprise to anyone that this sort of thing might be in the past of some elected/appointed officials?

Surprised? No.

Do you think it's fair to judge who this guy is on allegations of his possible behavior as a teenager?

For this job, I do think it's fair. I don't think it's necessarily the #1 priority, but I don't think it's out of bounds, either - particularly when the behavior is as boorish as what's been alleged.

Entitled jerky rich kids get enough power in our society; we don't need them wielding even more.

I must've missed something in the article...what's the rumor being spread?

That they're "alumni" of their classmate Renate - that they engaged in some sort of sexual activity.
 
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rambot

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Do you think it's fair to judge who this guy is on allegations of his possible behavior as a teenager?
I would bet there are people who did NOT engage in this type of behaviour as a teenager who would be equally suited for this job.
"Fair" feels tough but again, Supreme Court judge, to me, requires an incredibly high ethical bar in my opinion.
I think if this attitude and behaviour was left to fester and was never confronted in direct conversation, to mitigate and create a better understanding, I do believe that unhelpful attitude COULD be a part of his decision making rubric and yes that would concern me.
 
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rambot

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Abstain from all appearance of evil. It looks like something that it's not. Even if I was best friends with a mans wife, I would not go to their house before her husband got home. Doesn't look right. No need for me to even be alone with her. Same could be said with me being a married man. Why go somewhere and hang around with a woman, or women alone? But if my wife is sitting there, who can say I'm seeing another women? Or suspect me in doing something wrong.
I understand the "it doesn't look right". But ultimately then, you are allowing the very busybodies and gossips that say terrible things to have power. Personally, I can't abide by that. I don't think simply being in the presence of another woman is "appearing evil". I mean, I'm not in a position where I have a female friend with whom I would hang out at long ends just the two of us so perhaps its just not on my radar.

Secondly, women can lie as well. Or even misinterpret your intentions. So having another person there just helps.
Yeah. I dunno. I can honestly say I have never had anything like that happen to me. Perhaps I'm in an innocent fog of silliness but this just doesn't go onto my radar.



I believe they should be charged and face an equal time in jail that the accused was facing if the accusation can be proven to be malice.
100%
 
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Ana the Ist

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Surprised? No.

Me neither.

For this job, I do think it's fair. I don't think it's necessarily the #1 priority, but I don't think it's out of bounds, either - particularly when the behavior is as boorish as what's been alleged.

Is it that boorish? I don't know what kind of high school you went to, but mine was a lot worse than that. If we judged people by what they wrote in yearbooks...you'd think that about half of my high school class was in prison.

That said, I don't see the validity. We were all teenagers once....and while it may not have necessarily been our views on women that were immature, surely we all had immature attitudes/beliefs about some things. I know that I'm very different from who I was in high school...it's pretty ridiculous to imagine that anyone isn't. I'm also willing to admit that the person I was back then would certainly be characterized poorly by just about anyone who knew me. I'm not really ashamed of it though...because I was a teenager in high school.

Entitled jerky rich kids get enough power in our society; we don't need them wielding even more.

Well...now you're saying something else. When you say something like that, it might give someone else the idea that this isn't really about whether or not his "attitude" towards women when he was a teenage boy is worth consideration when he is about to be appointed to the SCOTUS. Saying something like that makes one think that this really has more to do with the fact that you think he's "entitled" and "rich". Lately, those words are a bit of a dog whistle on the left....so let's be clear...

If the nominee were a black female with liberal views who was coming from a poor background....you'd be just as concerned, right? You'd think that dragging up comments she made about boys that could be considered sexist as equally valid and disqualifying...right?

That they're "alumni" of their classmate Renate - that they engaged in some sort of sexual activity.

Ahhh....ok....and they didn't?
 
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Ana the Ist

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I would bet there are people who did NOT engage in this type of behaviour as a teenager who would be equally suited for this job.

Perhaps not this particular type of behavior....but do you think we could find someone who honestly never engaged in or said something that could be deemed offensive by some group or another today?

I honestly don't think that person exists.

"Fair" feels tough but again, Supreme Court judge, to me, requires an incredibly high ethical bar in my opinion.

If this was a story about him raping girls or sexually assaulting girls in high school...I would totally agree it's a valid concern. This looks like a high school kid boasting about sexual exploits....perhaps a bit mean, but I can't think of any guys I went to school with (who were sexually active) that didn't do some bragging about it. None.

It's weird to think that part of society now considers this to be a disqualifier for a job.

I think if this attitude and behaviour was left to fester and was never confronted in direct conversation, to mitigate and create a better understanding, I do believe that unhelpful attitude COULD be a part of his decision making rubric and yes that would concern me.

Seriously? So now you have to atone for everything you said and did as a teenager to qualify for a job as an adult? That doesn't sound the least bit.....insane to you??

How about this....if you found out that he's been married for many years and has never cheated on his wife....would it be safe to at least say that he's changed in regards to his views of women?
 
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