An argument for "eternal conscious torment"

[Pneuma3]

I'm just monitoring this thread to see if you guys ever find out the answer to the question of eternality of hell...?

Is it truly eternal, or just a long time, or what...?

God Bless!

The way I see it according to scripture aionios hell/damnation/torment whichever word you want to attach with aionios is of unknown duration. No one knows how long this duration will last. The reason being IMO is because no one knows how long the work of the cross will take in each individuals life.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<P3>The way I see it according to scripture aionios hell/damnation/torment whichever word you want to attach with aionios is of unknown duration. No one knows how long this duration will last. The reason being IMO is because no one knows how long the work of the cross will take in each individuals life.

end

Now if you only had some scriptural evidence to support this argument. Where are Christians told to concern themselves with "how long the work of the cross will take?"

John 9:4
(4) As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.​

How can the dead call on the one they have not believed in? How can those in hell believe in the of whom they have not heard? How can those who rejected God while living hear after they die and believe in the one they have not heard? Who is going to be sent to preach to them? Scriptural support?

Romans 10:14-15
(14) How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
(15) And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"​

 

[Pneuma3]

<P3>The way I see it according to scripture aionios hell/damnation/torment whichever word you want to attach with aionios is of unknown duration. No one knows how long this duration will last. The reason being IMO is because no one knows how long the work of the cross will take in each individuals life.
Now if you only had some scriptural evidence to support this argument. Where are Christians told to concern themselves with "how long the work of the cross will take?"

John 9:4
(4) As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.​

How can the dead call on the one they have not believed in? How can those in hell believe in the of whom they have not heard? How can those who rejected God while living hear after they die and believe in the one they have not heard? Who is going to be sent to preach to them? Scriptural support?

Romans 10:14-15
(14) How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
(15) And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"​

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Der Alte]

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Does not address my post in any way. So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God? The recidivism rate for prisons in this country is 77% those incarcerated often blame everyone but themselves for going to prison, often seeking to harm them. How is this going to change after death?

 

[Pneuma3]

Does not address my post in any way. So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God? The recidivism rate for prisons in this country is 77% those incarcerated often blame everyone but themselves for going to prison, often seeking to harm them. How is this going to change after death?

and I was pointing out you did not understand my post for I was talking about the cross. The aionios hell/damnation/torment/annihilation all have to do with the workings of the cross in men's life.
Which obviously you think is foolishness.

 

[ClementofA]

So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God?

Suddenly? Who said that? Compare this unpleasantness:

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.…

In 1 Tim.1:19-20 Love Omnipotent is still trying to save those who have become apostates.

The recidivism rate for prisons in this country is 77% those incarcerated often blame everyone but themselves for going to prison, often seeking to harm them. How is this going to change after death?

If that's the rate for a few years or decades in mere human prisons, what would be Love Omnipotent's rate when He has all power & all eternity to change those in His prisons?

Love Omnipotent has all eternity to wait & keep trying to save people. And given His willingness & ability to draw men to Himself an infinite number of times through eternity, it is mathematically impossible for anyone to reject Him an infinite number of times. Each time the man has a free choice to choose or reject God there is a chance he will choose God. Given an infinite number of such chances, the odds are impossible that he will not eventually choose God. So all will be saved.

"God is the grand master playing chess and we are the 5 year old rookie. Theoretically we are "free" to win the chess game, it is possible. No not really in the libertarian sense - it is unlikely to the point of virtual zero. in other words, God will always get His way, despite our best efforts not to be saved."

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“He does not save men by arbitrary force. He saves by their wills, through moral influence. God has resources in his universe, the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing! He has light enough to make the blind see, and love enough to melt the hardened heart.” -Quillen Hamilton Shinn

“How ironic that those who believe God will not violate the ‘free ’will of man have no problem believing He will violate His own free will—that all men should be saved!” - David Nuckols

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"God did not leave anything to chance, he's not a gambler he's an investor and that investment reaps dividends every time, if it takes a fundamentalist eternity to so."

"Who is stronger? Man with his free will or God who will have all men to be saved?"

According to the Bible mercy will triumph over judgement.

Love will conquer all.

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Proof for the Teaching of Christian, Biblical Universalism:
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

 

[Der Alte]

and I was pointing out you did not understand my post for I was talking about the cross. The aionios hell/damnation/torment/annihilation all have to do with the workings of the cross in men's life.
Which obviously you think is foolishness.

Since I have never mentioned the cross or anything about it your accusation is foolishness. Please explain to me how the work of the cross factors in this situation?

So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God?
.....The recidivism rate for prisons in this country is 77% those incarcerated often blame everyone but themselves for going to prison, e.g. judges, juries, witnesses, police, often seeking to harm them. How is this going to change after death?​

I have asked this question many times before of other UR-ites and have never received and answer.

 

[ClementofA]

Since I have never mentioned the cross or anything about it your accusation is foolishness. Please explain to me how the work of the cross factors in this situation?

So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God?
.....The recidivism rate for prisons in this country is 77% those incarcerated often blame everyone but themselves for going to prison, e.g. judges, juries, witnesses, police, often seeking to harm them. How is this going to change after death?​

I have asked this question many times before of other UR-ites and have never received and answer.

See post #266 just 2 posts before this one in answer to you on the same question. And i've answered you re the same many times.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[Der Alte]

Suddenly? Who said that? Compare this unpleasantness:
1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved [σωθη/sothe] on the day of the Lord.

Refers to only one man not all mankind. There are many different punishments in the Bible, everyone does not have the same punishment. And it does NOT say he "will" be saved only that he might be saved.
σωθη/sothe the word translated "may be saved is aorist, pass. The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.…

Does not say or imply that they will be saved after death. If they are conscious during punishment they will be learning not to blaspheme.

In 1 Tim.1:19-20 Love Omnipotent is still trying to save those who have become apostates.
If that's the rate for a few years or decades in mere human prisons, what would be Love Omnipotent's rate when He has all power & all eternity to change those in His prisons?
Love Omnipotent has all eternity to wait & keep trying to save people. And given His willingness & ability to draw men to Himself an infinite number of times through eternity, it is mathematically impossible for anyone to reject Him an infinite number of times. Each time the man has a free choice to choose or reject God there is a chance he will choose God. Given an infinite number of such chances, the odds are impossible that he will not eventually choose God. So all will be saved.
"God is the grand master playing chess and we are the 5 year old rookie. Theoretically we are "free" to win the chess game, it is possible. No not really in the libertarian sense - it is unlikely to the point of virtual zero. in other words, God will always get His way, despite our best efforts not to be saved."
------------------------
“He does not save men by arbitrary force. He saves by their wills, through moral influence. God has resources in his universe, the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing! He has light enough to make the blind see, and love enough to melt the hardened heart.” -Quillen Hamilton Shinn
“How ironic that those who believe God will not violate the ‘free ’will of man have no problem believing He will violate His own free will—that all men should be saved!” - David Nuckols
-----------------
"God did not leave anything to chance, he's not a gambler he's an investor and that investment reaps dividends every time, if it takes a fundamentalist eternity to so."
"Who is stronger? Man with his free will or God who will have all men to be saved?"
According to the Bible mercy will triumph over judgement.
Love will conquer all.
Proof for the Teaching of Christian, Biblical Universalism

:

.....Meaningless copy/pasted unsupported opinion of various anonymous UR-ites with no, zero, none scriptural support. Nothing more than "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!"
Here is the answer I have been expecting, quoted above.

"He does not save men by arbitrary force. He saves by their wills, through moral influence. God has resources in his universe, the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing!" David Nuckols​

If God is going to saves sinners "by their wills, through moral influence. ...the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing!" I suppose that means God is going to somehow change the hearts and minds of hardened disbelievers so that they love Him after being punished. Why doesn't God exercise that will while they are still alive instead of willingly letting them live a sinful life and knowing that He is going to subject them to an indeterminate time of punishment? Scripture please?

 

[ClementofA]

Refers to only one man not all mankind.

This & your other comments are irrelevant to the point being made. The point is that God uses "unpleasantness" in regards to bringing men to himself, as per 1 Cor.5:4-5; 1 Tim.1:19-20 & many other Scripture passages. Which puts to rest your complaint here:

So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God?

Suddenly? Who said that? Compare this unpleasantness:

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.…

In 1 Tim.1:19-20 Love Omnipotent is still trying to save those who have become apostates.



....

 

[ClementofA]

If God is going to saves sinners "by their wills, through moral influence. ...the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing!" I suppose that means God is going to somehow change the hearts and minds of hardened disbelievers so that they love Him after being punished.

Who said that? Is that what you think is happening here:

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

If God doesn't change hearts, do you think men are going to change them all by themselves without God?

Why doesn't God exercise that will while they are still alive instead of willingly letting them live a sinful life and knowing that He is going to subject them to an indeterminate time of punishment?

Who said men are puppets without free will?

 

[ClementofA]

John 9:4
(4) As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.

Where is a single verse in all the 66 books of Scripture that says "there is no repentance after death"? There is none.

How can the dead call on the one they have not believed in? How can those in hell believe in the of whom they have not heard? How can those who rejected God while living hear after they die and believe in the one they have not heard? Who is going to be sent to preach to them?

There is no need to concern oneself with details that aren't revealed & don't concern you as to how God is going to accomplish His will of saving everyone. Do you actually think Love Omnipotent is incapable of bringing the gospel to anyone anywhere at anytime He wishes? Does His love have an expiry date like a carton of milk?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Ripheus27]

No one knows how long this duration will last.

Hmm, here's another theory, then. From our point of view, it is unclear whether ECT is true, but it is possible that it's true, and this mere possibility is what we are confronting with the necessity of this-life repentance, etc. It's still possible, though, that ECT is false. The only guarantee is ECL (eternal conscious love, for those who are saved---whenever they're saved).

 

[Pneuma3]

Hmm, here's another theory, then. From our point of view, it is unclear whether ECT is true, but it is possible that it's true, and this mere possibility is what we are confronting with the necessity of this-life repentance, etc. It's still possible, though, that ECT is false. The only guarantee is ECL (eternal conscious love, for those who are saved---whenever they're saved).

Do you really believe God would build a tower without counting the cost and being unable to finish it?

God counted the cost for the salvation of the world, is He then unable to finish what He started?

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<Clem>This & your other comments are irrelevant to the point being made. The point is that God uses "unpleasantness" in regards to bringing men to himself, as per 1 Cor.5:4-5; 1 Tim.1:19-20 & many other Scripture passages. Which puts to rest your complaint here:
Suddenly? Who said that? Compare this unpleasantness:
1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.…<end>

end

The only irrelevant arguments here are yours. Repeating the same two verses over and over and over without addressing my questions does NOT make them mean anyone is going to be saved.
.....I repeat, sozo the word translated "may be saved," 1 Cor 5:4, is a subjunctive which is the mood of potentiality and possibility. The stated action may or may not occur depending on circumstances.
In 1 Tim 1:20 παιδευθωσιν/paideuthosin" the word translated "to be taught" is also a subjunctive. Claiming that that they are purpose statements does not change the fact that they are subjunctives. Purposes are not always completed. See e.g. God's purpose in Jeremiah 13:4-14. Vs. 11
God's purpose.

Jeremiah 13:11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

Vs. 14 God's purpose did not come to pass.

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

In 1 Tim.1:19-20 Love Omnipotent is still trying to save those who have become apostates.

I'm sorry I have looked in 1 Tim 1:19-20 and I cannot find the term "Love Omnipotent." This term is a ploy to evoke an emotional response instead of thinking rationally. I just happened to notice in both verses it is NOT "Love omnipotent" doing anything but Paul disciplining members of the church with the hope that God might correct them.


...

 

[Ripheus27]

Do you really believe God would build a tower without counting the cost and being unable to finish it?

God counted the cost for the salvation of the world, is He then unable to finish what He started?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a universalist at heart. I don't think God is cruel enough to torture helpless beings forever, even if they seem "despicable" according to some moral standard. That being said, I'm not super-sure about the subject so I want to leave open other interpretive options when it comes to the Bible.

 

[ClementofA]

I repeat, sozo the word translated "may be saved," 1 Cor 5:4, is a subjunctive which is the mood of potentiality and possibility. .

Again this & the rest of your post are irrelevant to the point being made. Your claims about claims being made don't apply since i made no such claims. So such claims resemble irrelevant strawman arguments. Perhaps you can try to address the point being made this time, or concede that your argument fails:

Refers to only one man not all mankind.

This & your other comments are irrelevant to the point being made. The point is that God uses "unpleasantness" in regards to bringing men to himself, as per 1 Cor.5:4-5; 1 Tim.1:19-20 & many other Scripture passages. Which puts to rest your complaint here:

So people who rejected God in this life and spend some indeterminate time in a very unpleasant place are suddenly going to be filled with warm fuzzies and love God?

Suddenly? Who said that? Compare this unpleasantness:

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.…

In 1 Tim.1:19-20 Love Omnipotent is still trying to save those who have become apostates.



....

 

[Pneuma3]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a universalist at heart. I don't think God is cruel enough to torture helpless beings forever, even if they seem "despicable" according to some moral standard. That being said, I'm not super-sure about the subject so I want to leave open other interpretive options when it comes to the Bible.

then I would say your well on your way to not only seeing the salvation of all but also believing it

 

[Der Alte]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a universalist at heart. I don't think God is cruel enough to torture helpless beings forever, even if they seem "despicable" according to some moral standard. That being said, I'm not super-sure about the subject so I want to leave open other interpretive options when it comes to the Bible.

I have been a Christian since Johnson was president. Lyndon not Andrew. I have studied Theology, including Hebrew and Greek, at the graduate level. I have never stopped studying and learning. My most recent resource acquisition, within the last month or so, was a version of Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon which I can use from my laptop. I also have two PC copies of Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon. Since I am retired times 3 I have plenty of time to pursue my passion.
.....Since God was so clear on so many things, such as "Thou shalt not steal." Clearly stated, no chance of misunderstanding. I would think that if God was going to save all mankind, whether they have repented in this life or not, I believe He would have stated that in no uncertain terms. I cannot find any verse where God, Himself, or Jesus Himself is speaking and He says something to the effect, "I will reconcile all mankind to myself, even if they have not repented in their earthly life."

 

[ClementofA]

I have been a Christian since Johnson was president. Lyndon not Andrew. I have studied Theology, including Hebrew and Greek, at the graduate level. I have never stopped studying and learning. My most recent resource acquisition, within the last month or so, was a version of Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon which I can use from my laptop. I also have two PC copies of Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon. Since I am retired times 3 I have plenty of time to pursue my passion.
.....Since God was so clear on so many things, such as "Thou shalt not steal." Clearly stated, no chance of misunderstanding. I would think that if God was going to save all mankind, whether they have repented in this life or not, I believe He would have stated that in no uncertain terms. I cannot find any verse where God, Himself, or Jesus Himself is speaking and He says something to the effect, "I will reconcile all mankind to myself, even if they have not repented in their earthly life."

If you think Love Omnipotent's love is finite & expires like a carton of milk so He can torture most of His creatures called human beings in fire with immortal worms eating them alive for all endless trillions X trillions X trillions of eons, forever and ever and ever, you will have to prove it.

Do you agree with Vincent that aidios means everlasting?

I think it was a superior word to use relative to the ambiguous aion & aionios, if God was a believer in endless punishment. Moreover, as opposed to aion and aionios (which are often used of finite duration), God had a number of other words & expressions available that would also have better served to express endless punishment, if Love Omnipotent were a believer of such. But He never uses such of eschatological punishment. So the reasonable conclusion is that Love Omnipotent rejected using such words and expressions of a final destiny of endless punishment because He knew better & He rejected the notion that anyone will endure endless punishment. Those words & expresssions are:

1. no end (Lk.1:33)...this expression is used of God's kingdom having "no end". It is never used of anyone's torments or punishment. We never read of anyone receiving torments that will have "no end". This unambiguous phrase, "no end", would have been a superior choice to the ambiguous words aion & aionion, if Love Omnipotent had a belief in endless torments or annihilation. But He rejected its use in expressing such a fate.

2. endless (1 Tim.1:4)...Again if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments, why didn't He use this word to express it, instead of the ambiguous aion & aionion, which often refer to finite durations in ancient Greek usage?

3. never (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

"Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." Mark 9 Benson Commentary

Yet Scripture - never - uses such language. Moreover, it speaks of death being abolished, not being "for ever".

4. eternal (Rom.1:16; Jude 1:6)...this word, AIDIOS, is used of God's "eternal" power & "eternal" chains that bind until the day of judgement. It is never used of anyone's final destiny. We never read of anyone being tormented for eternal ages. We never read of anyone suffering eternal (AIDIOS) punishment. If Jude believed in endless punishment, he had the perfect opportunity at Jude 1:6 by simply adding that the angels would suffer the judgement of eternal (AIDIOS) punishment or torments. Instead of warning his readers of such a horrificly monstrous fate, as he should have been morally obligated to do if it were a real possibility, instead he conveys the relatively utterly lame & insignificant info that these angelic beings will be kept in chains until judgement day. OTOH, consider:

"Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he [Jesus] used aionion kolasin..." Chapter 3 - Origin of Endless Punishment

"Nyssa defined the vision of God promised there as "life without end, eternal incorruption, undying beatitude [ten ateleuteton zoen, ten aidion aphtharsian , ten athanaton makarioteta]." ("Christianity and Classical Culture: The Metamorphosis of Natural Theology in ..." By Jaroslav Pelikan, p.165 @): Christianity and Classical Culture

5. unfading (1 Pet.1:4; 5:4)...Peter uses this word of an endless inheritance reserved in heaven & a crown of glory. It is never used of the endless pain, punishment or torments that anyone will receive. Can it be denied that this would have been a superior word (over aion & aionios) to use to express such a horrific destiny if Love Omnipotent actually had such in store for anyone? Wouldn't He want to express warnings about it in the clearest ways possible?

6. found no place for repentance (Heb.12:17)...is used in Heb.12:17 of the loss of a finite earthly blessing..."he found no place of repentance, although having earnestly sought it with tears". Never is it used regarding those in Gehenna, Hades, the lake of fire, or eschatological punishment. Never do we read of those cast into any "hell" that they will not (or never) find a place of repentance, even though they earnestly seek it with tears. God was quite capable of expressing such in His Holy Scriptures. But rather than give such a warning, as Love Omnipotent should have if such an unbelievably horrific future awaited anyone, instead we are told of the relatively lame loss of a finite earthly blessing. Such a waste of words if endless punishment were really true.

7. In Mt.18:6 is the lame warning of a punishment which is compared to mere drowning, which is nothing compared to being kept alive for the sole purpose of being tortured for all the "endless" ages of eternity that have "no end" & "never" cease. Jesus says it is "better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea". OTOH, if He had been a believer in endless punishment, He could have expressed that by saying it is better for them to have never lived, never been conceived, or that their parents had never known (had sex with) one another. Compare this anti-biblical Jewish view that the Lord Jesus Christ, Love Omnipotent, rejected:

"To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b)." GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism