Are world events orchestrated?

Loren T.

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I don't see God as responsible... I see God knowing we would fall and creating a way back to Him before we fell... and then allowing it to run it's course so that in the end, His family is made up of those who chose Him over the riches and pleasures of the world.
I tend to agree. I just get a little weird when people say things like: " Well, God is in control." when a tragedy strikes. Or worse, "It's all part of God's plan." Really? That totally misses the fact that Satan is alive and well and has his own plans and that this world as of now, is a battle field.
 
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RDKirk

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I tend to agree. I just get a little weird when people say things like: " Well, God is in control." when a tragedy strikes. Or worse, "It's all part of God's plan." Really? That totally misses the fact that Satan is alive and well and has his own plans and that this world as of now, is a battle field.

It's a lot scarier to think that God is not in control and that things are not going according to His plan.

If that's the case, then faith in God is no better than having a good poker hand.
 
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Loren T.

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It's a lot scarier to think that God is not in control and that things are not going according to His plan.

If that's the case, then faith in God is no better than having a good poker hand.
I try to keep the balance that scriptures give. That much of what happens is the result of sin and rebellion, but that God will win in the end. That God works all things for good for those who love him, not for everyone on the planet. Perhaps most people have a different definition of 'control', but if I control someone, totally and completely, then whatever they do is my doing. I'd rather God be good and not have to be a control freak, then a star wars God who is both light and dark. And I don't find "the force" in the Bible.
 
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RDKirk

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I try to keep the balance that scriptures give. That much of what happens is the result of sin and rebellion, but that God will win in the end. That God works all things for good for those who love him, not for everyone on the planet. Perhaps most people have a different definition of 'control', but if I control someone, totally and completely, then whatever they do is my doing. I'd rather God be good and not have to be a control freak, then a star wars God who is both light and dark. And I don't find "the force" in the Bible.

Do you have children? Or a pet?

If so, do you accept any responsibility for their actions? Do you accept any responsibility for what happens to them through factors you can control?
 
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RDKirk

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I tend to agree. I just get a little weird when people say things like: " Well, God is in control." when a tragedy strikes. Or worse, "It's all part of God's plan." Really? That totally misses the fact that Satan is alive and well and has his own plans and that this world as of now, is a battle field.

And, btw, God does accept the overall responsibility for such things as tragedies, so He has no need for you to defend His honor.

I form light and create darkness;

I make well-being and create calamity;

I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7
 
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Loren T.

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Do you have children? Or a pet?

If so, do you accept any responsibility for their actions? Do you accept any responsibility for what happens to them through factors you can control?
You mean do I clean up their messes? Certainly, as babies, but once theytare capable we don't take responsibility for their messes. We have worked hard to install a sense of responsibility into our kids. If they fail to live up to that, it's on them. Unfortunately, the dogs are terrible Rebels. But the children are definitely responsibe for their own actions and more so as they become adults.
 
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Loren T.

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And, btw, God does accept the overall responsibility for such things as tragedies, so He has no need for you to defend His honor.

I form light and create darkness;

I make well-being and create calamity;

I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

The Isaiah verse is about God bringing judgement on his people, it's not a universal claim. In fact, if you were correct, God would be taking responsibility for his people's rebellion instead of pleading with them constantly to obey throughout the Old Testament.
 
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bling

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The question for discussion:

If God knew that Adam would fall before He created Adam, and this appears to be the case, then does it not stand to reason that everything He has done since that time was the create a scenario that ultimately, would testify of His mercy, grace, and goodness? I am not suggesting that He micromanages our lives... but the overall flow of both time and culture... do you believe that this is something He has His hand on... even if the culture continues to drift from Him? Do you see that as leading to the times that are coming? Or is He hands off and Satan is who drives the machine, culturally speaking?
All mature adults are individually being set up to provide the very best situation for those who are just willing (using their free will) to accept or reject God’s charity in the form of forgiveness.

The whole Garden scenario was a costly learning experience for Adam and Eve plus the rest of us to learn a lot plus see how the Garden Scenario is a lousy place for humans to fulfill their earthly object and the need for sin.
 
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RDKirk

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You mean do I clean up their messes? Certainly, as babies, but once theytare capable we don't take responsibility for their messes. We have worked hard to install a sense of responsibility into our kids. If they fail to live up to that, it's on them. Unfortunately, the dogs are terrible Rebels. But the children are definitely responsibe for their own actions and more so as they become adults.

Really? How does the rest of the community feel about that? If your children commit a public error, does the rest of the community hold them responsible or you responsible? If your child breaks a window, whose money pays for it?
 
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Monna

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From that moment on we have matter, and biblical time flows forward. The Biblical clock begins here."

Universal time started there. The earth probably didn't. But the bible indicates that God was already there, "before" time. Science intimates also that "information" is independent of time and place and probably existed before the big bang. "Mind" could exist "prior" to time. Monotheists tend to believe that God is both "almighty" (i.e. infinite energy) and omniscient (information/mind, or the 'logos' - word/ communication, logic, reason, rational, purpose) ... as well as having other attributes. These ideas still put God outside of time and space, even as He is active within it.
 
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Loren T.

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Really? How does the rest of the community feel about that? If your children commit a public error, does the rest of the community hold them responsible or you responsible? If your child breaks a window, whose money pays for it?
I don't live in town. And my kids are old enough to pay for thier own mistakes. But what does that have to do with anything? It's a weak metophar at best. Are you trying to say that God is responsible for my sins? That's ridiculous.
He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD. Prov. 17:5
 
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I'd rather God be good and not have to be a control freak, then a star wars God who is both light and dark. And I don't find "the force" in the Bible.
As good as His Holiness/Glory is, it will destroy anyone who is not prepared for it. So, it isn't about light & dark. It's about light & more light than one can possibly stand. We all would like Justice, but nobody would survive, if we got it.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Universal time started there. The earth probably didn't. But the bible indicates that God was already there, "before" time. Science intimates also that "information" is independent of time and place and probably existed before the big bang. "Mind" could exist "prior" to time. Monotheists tend to believe that God is both "almighty" (i.e. infinite energy) and omniscient (information/mind, or the 'logos' - word/ communication, logic, reason, rational, purpose) ... as well as having other attributes. These ideas still put God outside of time and space, even as He is active within it.
God declares the end from the beginning and He watches over His word to see that the Word accomplishes His plan and purpose.

We are star stuff. We are carbon based life that began when a star burned out and exploded. Our Mind did not have the ability to choose good and evil until the Adam and Eve and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil around 6,000 years ago. This was when the frontal lobe evolved and we could choose right and wrong. This is what makes us human because animals have not evolved in this way. On day 6 God saw that everything was very good. Yet redemption seems to be a part of His plan from the beginning of Creation.

David tells us that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. In Rev 17:8 we read about the "book of life from the foundation of the world". Eph1:4 "For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love"

From the very beginning Jesus was given as a grain offering. John 12:24 "Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds."
 
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joshua 1 9

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You must have the Darwin Bible translation. None of my translations mention frontal lobes of primates evolving.
I am talking about the science book and the science of the brain. They know what every area of the brain does because they remove tumors from the brain so they have to know the effect that is going to have on people. I suppose this does have more to do with theistic evolution. That is just the terms that most people think in these days. That is the language that they speak.

Jesus added a word in the Greek to what Moses said in the Hebrew. He talked about the Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength. Moses only talks about the Heart, Soul & Strength. He does not say anything about the Mind.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I tend to agree. I just get a little weird when people say things like: " Well, God is in control." when a tragedy strikes. Or worse, "It's all part of God's plan." Really? That totally misses the fact that Satan is alive and well and has his own plans and that this world as of now, is a battle field.

God can fix anything. We can never get ourselves into a situation that God does not have a solution for. We can never ask a question that God can not answer. No matter how much of a mess man and the devil makes out of things, God is able to fix it.

1 Thessalonians 5:18(KJV) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
 
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Loren T.

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God can fix anything. We can never get ourselves into a situation that God does not have a solution for. We can never ask a question that God can not answer. No matter how much of a mess man and the devil makes out of things, God is able to fix it.

1 Thessalonians 5:18(KJV) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
Of course, he is able. And as I already said, this only applies to believers. But to be fully in control, as I would define control, God would also have to be causing all the devil's work he was fixing. Which is why I would hesitate to tell a non believer that God is in control. If they have a mind like mine, their next though would be : "What kind of God causes every horrible thing that happens in this world?" Jesus called Satan the price of this world. It is the fall and the evil one who are causing the bad and God who brings good out of the bad for believers.
 
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RDKirk

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I don't live in town. And my kids are old enough to pay for thier own mistakes. But what does that have to do with anything? It's a weak metophar at best.

I'm not talking about them as adults, but as small children. If your small child had picked up a jar of pickles in the grocery store, dropped it and broke it, would your child have paid for it or would you have paid for it?

Are you trying to say that God is responsible for my sins? That's ridiculous.

God did take responsibility for your sins.

Or are you saying that you will stand before Him in judgment and take responsibility for your own sins?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Of course, he is able. And as I already said, this only applies to believers. But to be fully in control, as I would define control, God would also have to be causing all the devil's work he was fixing. Which is why I would hesitate to tell a non believer that God is in control. If they have a mind like mine, their next though would be : "What kind of God causes every horrible thing that happens in this world?" Jesus called Satan the price of this world. It is the fall and the evil one who are causing the bad and God who brings good out of the bad for believers.
They talk about God's permissive will and God's perfect divine will. He does take responsibility: Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." There will be a New Heaven and a New Earth when the Earth will be as Heaven is and there will be no more evil. Everything - all - will be very good. Genesis 1:31 "And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

Man and the devil made a mess out of things, but God is going to clean it all up.
 
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joshua 1 9

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God did take responsibility for your sins.
He became sin so that we could be made righteous.

2cor5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

Romans 8:3 "For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,"
 
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