Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[Pneuma3]

Bullinger is certainly entitled to his wrong opinion. However, since Scripture always trumps opinions & bulloni, in this case it also trumps the bulloni of Bullinger. Since Christ's reign ends (1 Cor.15:25), His reign "into the ages of the ages" (Rev.11:15) cannot be for ever and ever. Nor can "ages of the ages" be for ever and ever, since it ends along with Christ's reign for the "ages of the ages".

As for Bullinger's biased opinion, he gives no evidence for his viewpoint of "the ages of the ages"meaning "to the remotest age". Why did he not instead determine it means to the remotest "ages" (plural) since the word is in the plural? Why not "to the most excellent age" or ages, as he states re the "song of songs"? Or "to the greatest ages" as he states regarding "vanity of vanities"? Why blindly accept Bullinger's bald unsupported opinion? Is he a pope? Did he know Greek better than the early church universalists, such as the church father Origen, who spoke of an end of all ages, an end of age of the ages & an end of ages of the ages? If these periods of finite time have an end, then they are not, as Bullinger claims, for ever and ever.

Furthermore, he gives no reason for how he magicly leaps from "to the remotest age" to "for ever and ever". If torment is "to" or "until" a certain age, then it ends before that age starts, so it is not for ever and ever. If torment is "into" (EIS) "the remotest age", that does not necessarily mean it lasts for the entire duration of that age, even if the age is endless. If torment is "into the ages of the ages", the torment makes entrance into those ages, not necessarily throughout the entire duration of them. Therefore the torment "into the ages of the ages" (e.g. Rev.20:10) is of an indefinite period of time. From other Scriptures it is clear that the torment ends.

5 Scriptural evidences that ages of ages end:

(1) The smoke going up forever and ever (literally, into the ages of the ages, Rev.19:3) is finite in duration. For the fire as the source of the smoke will cease burning after the city is "utterly burned" (Rev.18:8) & "found no more" (18:21). Also the old earth passes away (Rev.21:1), so how would the city continue to smoke "for ever and ever"?

(2) The saints reign for "the ages of the ages" (Rev.22:5). But this is only until all rule & all authority are abolished (1 Cor.15:24). Consequently one interpretation of the phrase "forever and ever" in Rev.22:5 is that it is of finite duration.

(3) Christ reigns "for the ages of the ages" (Rev.11:15). Since His reign is "until" He gives up the kingdom (1 Cor.15:25-26), His reign for "the ages of the ages" is temporary, as is "the ages of the ages" related to it.

(4) Since Scripture teaches universal reconciliaton (e.g. Rev.5:13; Col.1:20), "the ages of the ages" referred to in Rev.20:10 re the torment of the devil cannot be endless.
Likewise with other lesser sinners [e.g. humans] that may be punished in the lake of fire (cf. Rev.14:11 which uses a similar phrase, "ages of ages", without the definite article "the").

(5) Comparing Rev.20:10 with Matthew 25:41, Jesus said the future of the devil & his angels is fire aionios (Mt.25:41, 46), mistranslated everlasting or "eternal fire" by pro ECT
(eternal conscious torments) Bible versions (e.g. KJV). Fire aionios is also associated with the fire that burnt Sodom (Jude 7). That fire is not eternal & its effects will last only until Sodom is restored (Ezek 16). Thus there is a Scriptural basis for taking the same phrase, fire aionios, which also occurs at Mt.25:41 & 18:8, as referring to a fire that is of finite duration. Likewise with "into eons of the eons" in Rev.20:10 which also refers to the devil's eonian (Mt.25:41) punishment associated with fire. So the devil's eon related punishment by fire in both Mt.25:41 & Rev.20:10 is finite. Therefore, the period "the eons of the eons" (Rev.20:10) must end. And surely since the devil's torments "into the ages of the ages" end, so do those related to human beings (cf. Rev.14:11; Mt.18:8; 25:41), for the same terminology is applied to them. Moreover, they are less sinful than Satan. If his punishment ends, then why not theirs also? Consequently the mistranslation "forever and ever" in Rev.20:10 & 14:11 refers to a finite period of time, with a beginning and an end.

Summing up the argument:

- eonian fire is finite (Jude 7)
- eonian fire is the devil's punishment (Mt.25:41)
- which is equal to his punishment in Rev.20:10
- therefore his punishment is finite &
- his torment for the eons of the eons is finite &
- the eons of the eons themselves are finite

continued at:

12 points re forever and ever being finite:
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-not-cast-off-for-ever.8041512/#post-72126038

 

[Der Alte]

Lol does scripture or does it not stated aion and its adjective end? Why yes they do. Thus again if scripture is true then obviously you and all your so called scholars are not.
Read clements post on this, as he bring up my same point, as you seem to not understand mine

When you or the other guy(s) can bring one or more advanced degrees in Biblical languages, a few decades of research, translation, teaching and a few peer reviewed language books to the table then I might accept your arguments. The unsupported arguments of people who could not parse a Greek verb or locate a Hebrew verb if their life depended on it have very little merit here or in academia.

 

[Pneuma3]

When you or the other guy(s) can bring one or more advanced degrees in Biblical languages, a few decades of research, translation, teaching and a few peer reviewed language books to the table then I might accept your arguments. The unsupported arguments of people who could not parse a Greek verb or locate a Hebrew verb if their life depended on it have very little merit here or in academia.

You sound just like those people back in the days when the bible was only for the so called enlightened, as they also believed the common people could not understand what was written, did not want the bible distributed to them because they wanted to be the only ones (as they alone were the enlightened ones) to expound the scripture. And they did so in order to control the people.

Here we are in 2018 and it seems some people still have the same mentality as many did before the reformation.

 

[ClementofA]

You sound just like those people back in the days when the bible was only for the so called enlightened, as they also believed the common people could not understand what was written, did not want the bible distributed to them because they wanted to be the only ones (as they alone were the enlightened ones) to expound the scripture. And they did so in order to control the people.

Here we are in 2018 and it seems some people still have the same mentality as many did before the reformation.

Yup. Translation: I can't refute anything you said in your post with my own God given abilities, knowledge, logic, reason, Scripture or sound interpretation. I appeal to Caesar, my leaders, pontiffs, scholars, authorities. Yet there are other authorities (e.g. early church fathers) who disagree with such authorities.

Then there is the issue of appealing blindly to BDAG as one's pontifical authority when it agrees with one's viewpoint, but ignoring it when it opposes that same view. If it's an authority, why is it only an authority when one says it is & when it opposes one's viewpoint it is irrelevant? It sounds more like that one is the authority, not the BDAG.

 

[ClementofA]

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."

"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's
"obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."

"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."

(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<P3>You sound just like those people back in the days when the bible was only for the so called enlightened, as they also believed the common people could not understand what was written, did not want the bible distributed to them because they wanted to be the only ones (as they alone were the enlightened ones) to expound the scripture. And they did so in order to control the people.
Here we are in 2018 and it seems some people still have the same mentality as many did before the reformation. <end>

end

I get that a lot around here from groups that claim to have all this esoteric "knowledge" e.g. JW, LDS, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC etc. "You don't have to know anything about the Bible, just come over here and drink this koolaid."
....Discussing scripture is the only place I have ever seen where people try to make up their own definitions for words in another language. I learned to speak German when I was 12. I did not make up my own definitions for German words. I used the definitions in the college text book I was using. I started learning to speak Greek about 7 years later when I was supervising Greek immigrants working for the US Army. I did not make up my own definitions for Greek words.
.....About 2 decades after that I formally studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level. And again I did not make up my own definitions for Hebrew and Greek words. I don't know of any students who did either.
.....Almost a decade after that I lived and worked in Korea for a decade. I supervised Korean employees I learned Korean. Kinda strange I learned to read Korean from road signs, the names of cities were written in Hangul the Korean alphabet, Hanja Korean written in Chinese characters and English. And again I do not make up my own definitions for Korean words. The characters at the bottom of my posts 노인목자 are Korean they are pronounced No een mok jah.

 

[Pneuma3]

<P3>You sound just like those people back in the days when the bible was only for the so called enlightened, as they also believed the common people could not understand what was written, did not want the bible distributed to them because they wanted to be the only ones (as they alone were the enlightened ones) to expound the scripture. And they did so in order to control the people.
Here we are in 2018 and it seems some people still have the same mentality as many did before the reformation. <end>
I get that a lot around here from groups that claim to have all this esoteric "knowledge" e.g. JW, LDS, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC etc. "You don't have to know anything about the Bible, just come over here and drink this koolaid."
....Discussing scripture is the only place I have ever seen where people try to make up their own definitions for words in another language. I learned to speak German when I was 12. I did not make up my own definitions for German words. I used the definitions in the college text book I was using. I started learning to speak Greek about 7 years later when I was supervising Greek immigrants working for the US Army. I did not make up my own definitions for Greek words.
.....About 2 decades after that I formally studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level. And again I did not make up my own definitions for Hebrew and Greek words. I don't know of any students who did either.
.....Almost a decade after that I lived and worked in Korea for a decade. I supervised Korean employees I learned Korean. Kinda strange I learned to read Korean from road signs, the names of cities were written in Hangul the Korean alphabet, Hanja Korean written in Chinese characters and English. And again I do not make up my own definitions for Korean words. The characters at the bottom of my posts 노인목자 are Korean they are pronounced No een mok jah.

Well then you should have no problem understanding in Greek where the scriptures state the aion and its adjective END. Yet you do not seem to understand that, which make me think you do not understand Greek as much as you say you do.

 

[Pneuma3]

<P3>You sound just like those people back in the days when the bible was only for the so called enlightened, as they also believed the common people could not understand what was written, did not want the bible distributed to them because they wanted to be the only ones (as they alone were the enlightened ones) to expound the scripture. And they did so in order to control the people.
Here we are in 2018 and it seems some people still have the same mentality as many did before the reformation. <end>
I get that a lot around here from groups that claim to have all this esoteric "knowledge" e.g. JW, LDS, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC etc. "You don't have to know anything about the Bible, just come over here and drink this koolaid."
....Discussing scripture is the only place I have ever seen where people try to make up their own definitions for words in another language. I learned to speak German when I was 12. I did not make up my own definitions for German words. I used the definitions in the college text book I was using. I started learning to speak Greek about 7 years later when I was supervising Greek immigrants working for the US Army. I did not make up my own definitions for Greek words.
.....About 2 decades after that I formally studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level. And again I did not make up my own definitions for Hebrew and Greek words. I don't know of any students who did either.
.....Almost a decade after that I lived and worked in Korea for a decade. I supervised Korean employees I learned Korean. Kinda strange I learned to read Korean from road signs, the names of cities were written in Hangul the Korean alphabet, Hanja Korean written in Chinese characters and English. And again I do not make up my own definitions for Korean words. The characters at the bottom of my posts 노인목자 are Korean they are pronounced No een mok jah.

Gary Amirault put this little piece together. Pay special attention to the last one.


“Here then is absolute proof from the Scriptures themselves that an aion is an AGE or a PARTICULAR PERIOD OR INTERVAL:

• There was time BEFORE the aions (1 Corinthians 2:7, ‘BEFORE the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• God MADE the aions (Hebrews 1:2, ‘MAKES the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There were aions in the PAST (Colossians 1:26, ‘hid FROM eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age is called an aion (Galatians 1:4, ‘the PRESENT wicked eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age will come to an END (Matthew 24:3, ‘The END [or conclusion] of the eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion (Luke 18:30, ‘the eon TO COME’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS (Ephesians 2:7, ‘the ONCOMING AIONS’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• Some aions are even contrasted with OTHER AIONS (Ephesians 3:21, ‘the eon OF the eons’). Therefore, NOT ETERNAL.
• All aions will come to all their ENDS (1 Corinthians 10:11, ‘the CONSUMMATIONS [plural] of the eons [plural].’) Therefore, obviously not possible to be eternal!!

 

[ClementofA]

Romans 5:18-19

"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108

108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."

(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.229)

18 So, then, just as by one transgression unto condemnation for all human beings, so also by one act of righteousness unto rectification of life for all human beings;
19 For, just as by the heedlessness of the one man many were rendered sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be rendered righteous.s

"s. The use of the definite article here and elsewhere must be scrupulously observed, in keeping with the traditional way of formulating the distinction between the unique singular and the comprehensive plural in Greek (which a language without articles, like Latin, cannot reflect): not, that is, "one" (in the sense of "someone"), but "the one" (in the sense of the unique and irreplaceable, an irreducible singular) and "the many" (in the sense of all and everyone, the indivisible totality of all particulars). As in the prior verse, the proportion uniting both halves of the formulation is that of a particular and the universal, both in sin and in salvation."

(The New Testament: A Translation, David Bentley Hart, 2017, p.297-298)

 

[ClementofA]

Hebrews 10:39
(39) But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Let us note this verse says nothing about being saved from endless tortures or endless annihilation. Salvation is from destruction. And nothing in v.39 says those who experience being "destroyed" cannot be saved later. Nothing in v.39 says anyone will "never be saved". To the contrary, all will be reconciled to God & find life & justification in Christ (Col.1:16-20; Rom.5:18-19; Phil.2:9-11; etc).

Heb.10:39 speaks of being "destroyed", but not destroyed forever, not endless annihilation or tortures. What is "destroyed" can still be saved:

God destroys & He makes alive again (Deut.32:39). Destroy this temple & in 3 days i will raise it up (Jn.2:19). Destruction's purpose is to lead to salvation (1 Cor.5:4-5; 1 Tim.1:19-20).

A Greek lexicon at the following url states re the Greek word olethron ("destruction") at 2 Thess.1:9:

"...Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby..."

https://translate.academic.ru/ὄλεθρος/el/xx/

As does p.702 of "A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)":

A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)
https://www.amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lexicon-Testament-Christian-Literature/dp/0226039331

Compare that above statement to:

"In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to "destruction", but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal."

In the book of Daniel King Nebuchadnezzar lost his soul when God made him act insanely like an animal for 7 years. God's destruction/ruining of the kings' soul meant the loss of his soul for the king.

Likewise the prodigal son "lost" (same Greek word as "destroyed") his soul when he left his father for the world. Later when he "came back to his senses", he "found" his soul. His Father said his son was "dead" and "lost" (i.e. destroyed). Though he was obviously not annihilated or tortured for eternity.

What does it mean that God "can" ruin or destroy a soul in Gehenna? Would this be ruin as in cessation of existence or something like a spiritual death as in, for example, dead in sins (Eph.2:1)? Or as in what God did to the king in the book of Daniel in making him act like an animal for 7 years, before returning his soul back to sanity, resulting in him being humbled & worshiping God? Or, as in being delivered to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20)? BTW, Satan will be there in the LOF with human blasphemers.

Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20).

Even in this life one can be delivered to Satan for destruction that one may be saved:

1 Cor.5:5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Of course the spiritually dead are already dead in sins. But this does not preclude there being various degrees of spiritual deadness or destruction (i.e. ruin) of their souls. Similarly the Scriptures speak of those who are worthy of few stripes & others who are worthy of many stripes, & similarly. Surely a distinction is to be made between a relatively innocent infant or child, a rebellious teenager & those who have apostacized from the faith, or demons & Satan. It is conceivable that it is always possible for the spiritually dead to experience greater degrees of destruction to their souls should they continue to rebel in the LOF and until they finally repent. Though, ever given the choice to turn to God, it is mathematically impossible that they would continue to reject God for eternity.

A passage in Matthew that has been interpreted as speaking of the possibility of release from "hell" (Gehenna) is:

Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

This is spoken of by Jesus in the context of references to Gehenna, both before and after this passage.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/why-affirm-belief-in-hell/4967/12

Matthew was probably written to Jews & in the opening chapter of this book he told his readers that Jesus shall save His people from their sins (1:21), i.e. His people Israel (2:6). I take that to include people like Judas Iscariot & wicked Pharisees who died in their sins. But lest anyone think that is a licence to live sinfully, Jesus gives warnings such as those in Mt.10:28.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

 

[Uber Genius]

Stephen said: If you disagree I ask that you provide strong doctrine using the word of God alone to prove me wrong, using the full sword of God not just a couple verses here or there.

Here is the book you requested.

Believe what the Jewish Apostles Taught, Not What the Greek Philosophers Taught

• Why Tradition about the fate of the lost, (as torment forever) is unbiblical and not hermeneutically correct.
  
  
• Why Conditional Immortality is absolutely true and all unsaved souls will one day be "destroyed."
  
  
• Why there is no "immortal soul" doctrine in the Bible, for the lost, at all.

http://JewishNotGreek.com


A CHALLENGE TO THOSE WHO DISAGREE

We are so persuaded of our position, and so confident in the Scriptural evidence presented on this site, that we honestly do not believe that anyone who shares our faith in the final authority of Scripture will be able to cling to endless torment after reading this entire site and the links.

These types of replies that deny legitimacy to other views are intellectually and emotionally immature and not helpful. What scholars do is examine all the data and then develop inferences.

1. Exegete all Biblical scriptures about judgement.
2. List the features of ALL inferences (as opposed to mocking all inferences other than the one you hold)
3. Argue why you think one inference best explains the data of scripture (do this in a forum where your interlocutors can engage your justifications with defeaters)

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Views-H...1536078120&sr=8-1&keywords=four+views+on+hell

https://www.amazon.com/All-Want-Kno...&qid=1536078239&sr=8-2&keywords=views+on+hell

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351760898

https://works.bepress.com/jordan_ballard/25/

Unlike your conclusion, all books representing the Doctrine of Hell have sections representing the eternal conscious torment inference as a live inference. Making your confidence unwarranted.

There are over 300 scholarly articles on the doctrine of hell readily available for CF members to engage on scholar google.

Jesus gave us great examples of how to engage worldviews that were false. He provided reasons and arguments. I suggest we follow his example and engage these discussions in an intellectually mature fashion rather than the "No other views besides mine are reasonable," approach.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<P3>Gary Amirault put this little piece together. Pay special attention to the last one.
“Here then is absolute proof from the Scriptures themselves that an aion is an AGE or a PARTICULAR PERIOD OR INTERVAL:
• There was time BEFORE the aions (1 Corinthians 2:7, ‘BEFORE the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• God MADE the aions (Hebrews 1:2, ‘MAKES the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There were aions in the PAST (Colossians 1:26, ‘hid FROM eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age is called an aion (Galatians 1:4, ‘the PRESENT wicked eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age will come to an END (Matthew 24:3, ‘The END [or conclusion] of the eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion (Luke 18:30, ‘the eon TO COME’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS (Ephesians 2:7, ‘the ONCOMING AIONS’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• Some aions are even contrasted with OTHER AIONS (Ephesians 3:21, ‘the eon OF the eons’). Therefore, NOT ETERNAL.
• All aions will come to all their ENDS (1 Corinthians 10:11, ‘the CONSUMMATIONS [plural] of the eons [plural].’) Therefore, obviously not possible to be eternal!!<end>

end

As always, simply ignores all scriptural and historical evidence to the contrary.

ὑπερβάλλω[uperballo] 2 aor. 3 sg. ὑπερέβαλεν Sir 25:11 (Hom. et al.; ins, pap, LXX, JosAs, Just.; orig. ‘to cast beyond’ e.g. in a spear-throwing contest Il. 23, 637) to attain a degree that extraordinarily exceeds a point on a scale of extent, go beyond, surpass, outdo (Aeschyl., Pla., X.+; Philo, Mos. 2, 1; Jos., Ant. 2, 7; 8, 211) in an extraordinary constr. ἦν ὑπερβάλλων τὸ φῶς αὐτοῦ ὑπὲρ πάντα it went far beyond them all as far as its light was concerned, it surpassed them all in light IEph 19:2.—The ptc. ὐπερβάλλων, ουσα, ον surpassing, extraordinary, outstanding (Aeschyl., Hdt. et al.; Artem. 4, 72 ὑπερβάλλουσα εὐδαιμονία; 2 Macc 4:13; 7:42; 3 Macc 2:23; TestSol tit. rec. B p. 98*, 7; JosAs 23:2; EpArist 84; Philo; Jos., Ant. 4, 14; Just., D. 136, 2 τὸ ὑ. [subst.]) μέγεθος (Philo, Deus Imm. 116) Eph 1:19. πλοῦτος 2:7. χάρις 2 Cor 9:14. φιλανθρωπία Dg 9:2. δόξα 2 Cor 3:10. δωρεαί (cp. Philo, Migr. Abr. 106) 1 Cl 19:2; 23:2. Used w. gen. of comparison (Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. p. 169, 17 Br. ὑπ. τούτων) ὑπερβάλλουσα τῆς γνώσεως ἀγάπη a love that surpasses knowledge Eph 3:19.—M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 1032). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

Also see "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible," E.W. Bullinger pg. 531
https://archive.org/stream/figuresofspeechu00bull#page/284/mode/1up/search/for+ever

 

[Der Alte]

Well then you should have no problem understanding in Greek where the scriptures state the aion and its adjective END. Yet you do not seem to understand that, which make me think you do not understand Greek as much as you say you do.

There are more than 200 figures of speech used in the Bible One of those is hyperbole. which is derived from the Greek word ὑπερβάλλω/uperballo.

Matthew 16:26
(26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? [Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25]​

Can a person literally inherit the "whole world?"

1 John 5:19
(19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.​

Was "the whole world" literally under the control of the evil one?

Revelation 12:9
(9) The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.​

Did Satan literally lead "the whole world" astray?

Revelation 13:3
(3) One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.​

Did "the whole world" literally follow the beast?

Genesis 41:57 And all the world came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe everywhere.​

Did "all the world" literally buy grain from Egypt?

Acts 17:6 But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city officials, shouting: "These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here,​

Did the disciples literally cause trouble "all over the world?"

Acts 19:35 The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: "Fellow Ephesians, doesn't all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?​

Did "all the world" literally know that Ephesus was the guardian of the pagan deity Artemis?

Acts 24:5 "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect.​

Was Paul literally stirring up riots "all over the world?"

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.​

Did Caesar literally tax "all the world?"

Acts 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth​

Did "all the world" worship the goddess Diana?

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Was the faith of the Romans literally spoke of "throughout the whole world?" Or are all these verses using "world" hyperbolically?
.....Let us use your reasoning on these verses. The word "world" does not, cannot literally mean the entire planet earth because it is used to describe things that are not literally "the whole world" and "all the world."
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” are used to refer to things which are not eternal but are never defined/described, by other adjectives and phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in this verses.

Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]​

In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

 

[ClementofA]

There are more than 200 figures of speech used in the Bible One of those is hyperbole. which is derived from the Greek word ὑπερβάλλω/uperballo.

Matthew 16:26
(26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? [Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25]​

Can a person literally inherit the "whole world?"

​

Lose it for how long? It doesn't say forever. Can one who loses their soul find it again later? Did king Nebuchadnezzar lose his soul for 7 years when he ate grass like an animal...UNTIL...God restored him & he worshipped Love Omnipotent:

Dan.4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34a But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him...
36 At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.

Here again a punishment is...UNTIL...a certain point:

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail.
I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Which is spoken of in the context of references to Gehenna, both before & after this passage. Likewise here is yet another passage re punishment...UNTIL...a certain time:

Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mt.16:26, KJV)

A parallel passage states:

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? Lk.9:25

The word for "lose" is apollumi. The same Greek word used of the lost sheep, coin, & prodigal son who were "lost" & later found (Luke 15).

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<ca>Lose it for how long? It doesn't say forever. Can one who loses their soul find it again later? Did king Nebuchadnezzar lose his soul for 7 years when he ate grass like an animal...UNTIL...God restored him & he worshipped Love Omnipotent:
Dan.4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34a But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him...
36 At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.
Here again a punishment is...UNTIL...a certain point:
Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail.
I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.
Which is spoken of in the context of references to Gehenna, both before & after this passage. Likewise here is yet another passage re punishment...UNTIL...a certain time:
Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mt.16:26, KJV)
A parallel passage states:
What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? Lk.9:25
The word for "lose" is apollumi. The same Greek word used of the lost sheep, coin, & prodigal son who were "lost" & later found (Luke 15).
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html<end>

end

Irrelevant copy/paste from tents-Я-us which does not address my post in any way. You might try actually reading my posts and in your own words address my points.

 

[ClementofA]

<ca>Lose it for how long? It doesn't say forever. Can one who loses their soul find it again later? Did king Nebuchadnezzar lose his soul for 7 years when he ate grass like an animal...UNTIL...God restored him & he worshipped Love Omnipotent:
Dan.4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34a But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him...
36 At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.
Here again a punishment is...UNTIL...a certain point:
Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail.
I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.
Which is spoken of in the context of references to Gehenna, both before & after this passage. Likewise here is yet another passage re punishment...UNTIL...a certain time:
Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mt.16:26, KJV)
A parallel passage states:
What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? Lk.9:25
The word for "lose" is apollumi. The same Greek word used of the lost sheep, coin, & prodigal son who were "lost" & later found (Luke 15).
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html<end>
Irrelevant copy/paste from tents-Я-us which does not address my post in any way. You might try actually reading my posts and in your own words address my points.

You are wrong. It's not a "copy/paste from tents-Я-us". Where did you dream that up? If i were quoting another author you would have seen quotation marks.

As for addressing anything, i addressed the verse you posted. Which BTW pertains to the topic of this thread.

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

 

[SarahsKnight]

You are wrong. It's not a "copy/paste from tents-Я-us". Where did you dream that up? If i were quoting another author you would have seen quotation marks.

As for addressing anything, i addressed the verse you posted. Which BTW pertains to the topic of this thread.

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Don't bother with him, Clement. He used to stalk me years ago every time I made a pro-conditionalist post of any sort on this site, making the same broken-record replies in which he would just pretend you never addressed his argument, that you went off-topic, deflected, etc., even when you clearly were doing the opposite in your replies to his arguments (which is why I eventually put him on ignore; I don't even have to bother hitting the "see deleted posts" button to know exactly who it is who is giving you trouble right now). He loves his eternal torment doctrine, and there's no shaking him out of it. Just move on. ... At the very least I hope it turns out that I too am wrong and you universalists had it right all along, because you seem to have much better respect and praise for the Lord than either traditionalists or conditionalists like myself do (and I admit I will gain a smug satisfaction from seeing the more hardcore traditionalists sputter and fume that they won't get to see their little fantasy torture chamber in action from up in Heaven after all, but instead the redemption of everyone they liked looking down and pronouncing God's judgment upon - not gonna lie).

 

[SarahsKnight]

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail.
I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Which is spoken of in the context of references to Gehenna, both before & after this passage. Likewise here is yet another passage re punishment...UNTIL...a certain time:

Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.

This argument always did intrigue me about universal reconciliation (this is your position, correct, Clement? Unless I have just missed something here all this time). I mean, if the punishment of the ungodly is neverending torture, why ever give even one illustration that says the exact opposite, that there is a point at which the debt can be paid? Why even suggest that it can be paid at all?

 

[ClementofA]

This argument always did intrigue me about universal reconciliation (this is your position, correct, Clement? Unless I have just missed something here all this time). I mean, if the punishment of the ungodly is neverending torture, why ever give even one illustration that says the exact opposite, that there is a point at which the debt can be paid? Why even suggest that it can be paid at all?

Correct. Those are perceptive questions.

 

[Pneuma3]

<P3>Gary Amirault put this little piece together. Pay special attention to the last one.
“Here then is absolute proof from the Scriptures themselves that an aion is an AGE or a PARTICULAR PERIOD OR INTERVAL:
• There was time BEFORE the aions (1 Corinthians 2:7, ‘BEFORE the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• God MADE the aions (Hebrews 1:2, ‘MAKES the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There were aions in the PAST (Colossians 1:26, ‘hid FROM eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age is called an aion (Galatians 1:4, ‘the PRESENT wicked eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age will come to an END (Matthew 24:3, ‘The END [or conclusion] of the eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion (Luke 18:30, ‘the eon TO COME’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS (Ephesians 2:7, ‘the ONCOMING AIONS’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• Some aions are even contrasted with OTHER AIONS (Ephesians 3:21, ‘the eon OF the eons’). Therefore, NOT ETERNAL.
• All aions will come to all their ENDS (1 Corinthians 10:11, ‘the CONSUMMATIONS [plural] of the eons [plural].’) Therefore, obviously not possible to be eternal!!<end>
As always, simply ignores all scriptural and historical evidence to the contrary.

ὑπερβάλλω[uperballo] 2 aor. 3 sg. ὑπερέβαλεν Sir 25:11 (Hom. et al.; ins, pap, LXX, JosAs, Just.; orig. ‘to cast beyond’ e.g. in a spear-throwing contest Il. 23, 637) to attain a degree that extraordinarily exceeds a point on a scale of extent, go beyond, surpass, outdo (Aeschyl., Pla., X.+; Philo, Mos. 2, 1; Jos., Ant. 2, 7; 8, 211) in an extraordinary constr. ἦν ὑπερβάλλων τὸ φῶς αὐτοῦ ὑπὲρ πάντα it went far beyond them all as far as its light was concerned, it surpassed them all in light IEph 19:2.—The ptc. ὐπερβάλλων, ουσα, ον surpassing, extraordinary, outstanding (Aeschyl., Hdt. et al.; Artem. 4, 72 ὑπερβάλλουσα εὐδαιμονία; 2 Macc 4:13; 7:42; 3 Macc 2:23; TestSol tit. rec. B p. 98*, 7; JosAs 23:2; EpArist 84; Philo; Jos., Ant. 4, 14; Just., D. 136, 2 τὸ ὑ. [subst.]) μέγεθος (Philo, Deus Imm. 116) Eph 1:19. πλοῦτος 2:7. χάρις 2 Cor 9:14. φιλανθρωπία Dg 9:2. δόξα 2 Cor 3:10. δωρεαί (cp. Philo, Migr. Abr. 106) 1 Cl 19:2; 23:2. Used w. gen. of comparison (Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. p. 169, 17 Br. ὑπ. τούτων) ὑπερβάλλουσα τῆς γνώσεως ἀγάπη a love that surpasses knowledge Eph 3:19.—M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 1032). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

Also see "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible," E.W. Bullinger pg. 531
https://archive.org/stream/figuresofspeechu00bull#page/284/mode/1up/search/for+ever

All you keep doing is quoting BDAG over scripture. I get it to you BDAG understands the meaning of scripture better then the scriptures themselves,