Partial Preterism and dating revelation

[timtams]

I means that ALL of my statements on when various ancient documents were written are based ENTIRELY on dates alleged by those that claim to be experts in such things. As I have ZERO direct knowledge of the subject, I give dates I find online or elsewhere, but at least TRY to ALWAYS include the mini-disclaimer " 'is thought to' date from...".

But that's the point: where did you find the date of the second century? I've never heard of a document like this from the second century.

 

[Biblewriter]

But that's the point: where did you find the date of the second century? I've never heard of a document like this from the second century.

I do not remember where I found this allegation. Possibly it came from Wikipedia. But perhaps from one of the sites that present historic Christian writings.

 

[Biblewriter]

Sure, I believe everything you say, even over History and Scripture, because I BELIEVE YOU! -- NOT.

There are so many historical inconsistencies (lies) regarding the Prophecies of Daniel, they could fill a BOOK.

So if you're so sure about your "interpretations", then let's start with Daniel 1:21 & 10:1 just to make sure we know where the "starting point" really is.

Thanks,
DaDad

The starting point of the seventy weeks is clearly stated in the prophecy itself. "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times." Daniel 9:25

Believe or reject what I say as you wish. Anything that is merely my opinion is just as likely to be incorrect as anything anyone else says. I speak assuredly ONLY when the scriptures EXPLICITLY say something. THEN, and ONLY then, I speak assuredly. That is why I try to always include weasel words in any and every allegation about the supposed date of documents. A FEW of the books of the Bible reveal when they were written. And those are the ONLY ones for which ANY responsible student of scripture could speak assuredly of when it was written.

 

[Dave L]

There is no way to even pretend that Ezekiel 20:33-38, Ezekiel 36:1-10, Ezekiel 47:15-20, or any part of Ezekiel 48 has ever been fulfilled.

One thing you are overlooking is that God removed all of the unbelievers from Israel. And the promises were only for those in Christ. And whatever is not fulfilled on earth will be fulfilled in heaven or in the New Heavens and earth. The broken off unbelieving Jews are not biblical Israel to whom the promises apply.

 

[Biblewriter]

One thing you are overlooking is that God removed all of the unbelievers from Israel. And the promises were only for those in Christ. And whatever is not fulfilled on earth will be fulfilled in heaven or in the New Heavens and earth. The broken off unbelieving Jews are not biblical Israel to whom the promises apply.

The thing you have overlooked is that the Holy Spirit said that when He brings them back to the land He will purge the rebels from among them, explicitly stating, concerning these rebels, that "I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel." Ezekiel 20:38

There is no rational way to even pretend that there has ever been a time when God purged the rebels from the midst of Israelites as they were returning to the land, in such a way that those so purged will leave the country where they dwelt, but noe be allowed to enter the land.

 

[Dave L]

The thing you have overlooked is that the Holy Spirit said that when He brings them back to the land He will purge the rebels from among them, explicitly stating, concerning these rebels, that "I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel." Ezekiel 20:38

There is no rational way to even pretend that there has ever been a time when God purged the rebels from the midst of Israelites as they were returning to the land, in such a way that those so purged will leave the country where they dwelt, but noe be allowed to enter the land.

Jesus is Israel, and God purged the rebels when he broke off the unbelievers from him in Romans 11.

 

[Biblewriter]

Jesus is Israel, and God purged the rebels when he broke off the unbelievers from him in Romans 11.

This unquestionably did not happen as they were on their way back into the land from foreign countries.

 

[Dave L]

This unquestionably did not happen as they were on their way back into the land from foreign countries.

Jesus is Israel and so are those throughout the world who believe in him.

 

[timtams]

I do not remember where I found this allegation. Possibly it came from Wikipedia. But perhaps from one of the sites that present historic Christian writings.

This must be a mistaken reference as there is no such second century document.

 

[Biblewriter]

Jesus is Israel and so are those throughout the world who believe in him.

But, and this you simply cannot rationally deny, since the time this was written, there has never been a time when God brought the children of Israel back to their land, and as they were coming, purged rebels from their midst, causing these rebels to leave the countries where they were dwelling, but keeping them from entering the land.

Nothing even approximately like this has ever happened, and it is sheer lunacy to even attempt to pretend otherwise.

The only way you can even pretend that this has happened, is to claim that all these details, which are EXPLICITLY stated in Ezekiel 20, are simply not important.

 

[Dave L]

But, and this you simply cannot rationally deny, since the time this was written, there has never been a time when God brought the children of Israel back to their land, and as they were coming, purged rebels from their midst, causing these rebels to leave the countries where they were dwelling, but keeping them from entering the land.

Nothing even approximately like this has ever happened, and it is sheer lunacy to even attempt to pretend otherwise.

The only way you can even pretend that this has happened, is to claim that all these details, which are EXPLICITLY stated in Ezekiel 20, are simply not important.

You are confusing the broken off defunct Jews (now gentiles) with the Israel of Christ.

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

 

[Biblewriter]

This must be a mistaken reference as there is no such second century document.

http://earlychristianwritings.com/ lists it as sometime between 130-200 A.D. I believe that is where I got the date.

 

[Biblewriter]

You are confusing the broken off defunct Jews (now gentiles) with the Israel of Christ.

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

So, you are flatly denying that this prophecy, which was expressly stated by God, was ever going to happen?

 

[Dave L]

So, you are flatly denying that this prophecy, which was expressly stated by God, was ever going to happen?

It happens to TRUE Israel (in Christ), not the broken off unbelievers who are now gentiles.

 

[timtams]

http://earlychristianwritings.com/ lists it as sometime between 130-200 A.D. I believe that is where I got the date.

I see. So you don't know the difference between the late work you cited and the older Acts of John?

 

[Biblewriter]

It happens to TRUE Israel (in Christ), not the broken off unbelievers who are now gentiles.

So, are you saying that NONE of the details in this prophecy were ever meant to actually happen?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So, are you saying that NONE of the details in this prophecy were ever meant to actually happen?

Who implied that?

Matthew 24:16
then those in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mark 13:14
"But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Those who are inside the City must depart. Those who are out in the country must not enter it,

Revelation 18:4
And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her My people.....................

 

[Dave L]

So, are you saying that NONE of the details in this prophecy were ever meant to actually happen?

Here's how it works. Israel's restoration happens on the last day in the resurrection of believers. (I have more to say on this if interested.) So all OT prophecies pertaining to the restoration happen then, in the New Heavens and Earth. All other find fulfillment in the New Covenant era on earth or in heaven. But there will never be a physical millennial kingdom on earth. The kingdom is a matter of faith, not sight.

It is important to define Israel to whom the promises apply. They do not apply to the broken off unbelievers who are now gentiles. They apply only to Christ (Biblical Israel) and those united to him by faith. But any of the broken off can become members of Israel again through faith in Christ.

 

[Biblewriter]

Here's how it works. Israel's restoration happens on the last day in the resurrection of believers. (I have more to say on this if interested.) So all OT prophecies pertaining to the restoration happen then, in the New Heavens and Earth. All other find fulfillment in the New Covenant era on earth or in heaven. But there will never be a physical millennial kingdom on earth. The kingdom is a matter of faith, not sight.

It is important to define Israel to whom the promises apply. They do not apply to the broken off unbelievers who are now gentiles. They apply only to Christ (Biblical Israel) and those united to him by faith. But any of the broken off can become members of Israel again through faith in Christ.

You are flatly denying that the events so explicitly set forth in Ezekiel 20 will ever actually happen. In saying this, you are accusing God of lying when He said these, and many other very specific things, will happen.

 

[Dave L]

You are flatly denying that the events so explicitly set forth in Ezekiel 20 will ever actually happen. In saying this, you are accusing God of lying when He said these, and many other very specific things, will happen.

You are confusing the wicked unbelieving Jews, now broken off from Israel, with Biblical Israel in Christ that fulfills Ezekiel 20 to a tee.