ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

[corinth77777]

The indwelling Spirit also helps Christians to keep the Law and not commit sin, but only if they want to. God does not force His people to be helped or to keep His laws. Does the US government force Americans to accept welfare aid or to keep US Law.? But there are unpleasant earthly consequences to the breaking of the Law or the rejection of the help or grieving of the Spirit/Lord/God.

The early pioneering Christians "claimed" they needed the Law, ...

ACTS.21: = 17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord.

And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
.

LUKE.16: = 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
.

REVELATION.22: = Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

 

[corinth77777]

Here is maybe a good question

Are there not 2 types of laws?

How do you know when scripture says "law"

When it's referring to spiritual Law or the Law of Moses?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello LGW, please answer this post from yesterday:

Hello LoveGodsWord,

Does the believer have the Spirit, yes or no?

Does the Spirit guide our behaviour if we we submit to it, yes or no?

Simple answers please, no lengthy exegesis of multiple texts.

Hello expos4ever, nice to see you again.

No one has God's Spirit while breaking his commandments (Acts 2:38; 3:19). The same as none have God's Spirit if they do not know God's WORD and follow it (James 2:18-20).

God's Spirit works through God's WORD and it is not opposed to it because Jesus is the living WORD of God (John 1:1-3; 14). This is why Jesus says; The Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life (John 6:63). God's Spirit works through God's WORD.

Those who have God's Spirit are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. The devils BELIEVE but do not follow and will not be saved (James 2:19).

The 10 Commandments are also God's WORD spoken to mankind and repeated in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures by Jesus and the Apostles.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here is maybe a good question

Are there not 2 types of laws?

How do you know when scripture says "law"

When it's referring to spiritual Law or the Law of Moses?

Hello brother corinth, nice to see you again brother.

Good question. You need to consider the within scripture and chapter context. This will show the topic of conversation.

Some examples ...

Mosaic Shadow laws from the book of the covenant (COL 2:16-17)...

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

The shadow laws for remission of sins and sin offerings pointed to and are fulfilled in Christ our perfect lamb of God who is our sacfifice for the sins of the world. (See the within scripture context is laws on sin offerings not 10 Commandments)

Now 10 Commandments...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Context and subject matter here is fulfilling God's LAW 10 Commandmetns are mentioned as our duty of LOVE to our fellow man.

Hope this is helpful Brother corinth.

 

[JLB777]

Sorry my friend I am not interested in arguing with you. You either have God's WORD for what you believe or you do not. It seems you do not. As I have asked you earlier, I am happy to have a discussion with you if it goes both ways. If you can agree then fine if not let's agree to disagree and remain friends.

God's 4th Commandments is about not doing our own work. It is not about doing GOOD in the Sabbath and doing God's WORD. Jesus did God's WORK and taught it is lawful to do Good on the Sabbath. Jesus was not out doing his own work of carpentry and earning a living and breaking the Sabbath. He was out healing, teaching the Word of God, and helping others. This is lawful to do on the Sabbath. * Please read Matthew 12:1-12.

If Jesus broke God's Commandments he would then be a sinner. If Jesus broke God's LAW and was a sinner then how could he be our perfect sacrifice and the lamb of God that takes away all the sins of the World ? If he has his own sins to bare he could not bare ours or be perfect.

Now if you agree to respond to my posts and all the questions and scriptures in them I am happy to have a discussion with you. If you ignore my posts, questions and scriptures in them that disagree with you then it is not a discussion. You are free to believe as you wish.

DID JESUS REALLY BRAKE GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT (SABBATH) OR THE PHARASEES INTERPRETATION OF IT?

Let's look at the scriptures?

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

The difference in what Jesus was teaching and what the Jews taight is that Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath. It is our own WORK that we are commanded not to do (Exodus 20:8-11)

A few other OLD TESTAMENT references from Jesus in relation to doing good in the Sabbath..

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK.

Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

Jesus never broke any of his own Commandments especially the Sabbath which he created. This is what Jesus taught about the Sabbath in the NEW TESTAMENT.

.................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP another day as a Holy day.

Sorry friend God's WORD disagrees with you.

Your not interested and having the words of Jesus expose your false doctrine.


For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

• Jesus broke the Sabbath [according to the law] and Jesus made Himself as equal to God.

Now if you have a scripture from Jesus that commands the Church, under the New Covenant, to observe the Sabbath in a specific way, please post it here for us, as I have done, so we can discuss it.

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 teach that none enter into God's SABBATH REST if they do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (the Gospel).

Nothing in Hebrews 4 or 3 says any such thing.


It says those who believe [the Gospel] do enter that rest.



For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: Hebrews 4:3





JLB

 

[JLB777]

It is not about doing GOOD in the Sabbath and doing God's WORD.

Jesus did God's work and did good every single day.


So whats the difference.

He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.​

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. Romans 14:5-8




JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your not interested and having the words of Jesus expose your false doctrine.


For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

• Jesus broke the Sabbath [according to the law] and Jesus made Himself as equal to God.

Now if you have a scripture from Jesus that commands the Church, under the New Covenant, to observe the Sabbath in a specific way, please post it here for us, as I have done, so we can discuss it.







Nothing in Hebrews 4 or 3 says any such thing.


It says those who believe [the Gospel] do enter that rest.



For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: Hebrews 4:3





JLB

Hello JBL, your argument is not with me brother. They are God's WORD not mine. You are free to believe as you wish. We are all only accountable to God come judgment day. Simply ignoring God's WORD however will not make it dissappear. It is the WORD of God that will judge us all come judgment day * John 12:47-48. I will pray for you

 

[discipler7]

Tough case to make especially since Paul says elsewhere that the Law is a tutor that we are no longer "under".

The Law of Moses served as a Tutor to bring the Jews towards salvation through faith in Jesus Christ = Jewish Christians like Paul, John and Peter.

The Law does not save people from hell when they die or is not able to give people eternal life. Nevertheless, for Christians who are still earthbound, the Law brings the earthly blessings or curses of God, especially needed for Gentile Christians who had previously led mostly lawless lives from childhood(DEUT.28, 1COR.5:5 & 6:9-11 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16, ROMANS.2:10). Those who keep God's Law fully or partially(= for Gentile Christians) will be blessed by God with a good, peaceful, joyful, loving and long life on earth, and vice versa for those who disobey or break God's Law.

Wrt salvation, Christians are no longer under the Law but under faith in Jesus Christ. But wrt earthly living, they are still under the Law - similar to Americans living on earth under the US Constitution/Law. Until Christians die and be resurrected/raptured, they are still living on earth under the Law.(1CORINTHIANS.5:1-13)
....... Can Christians not live under the Law.? Can they willfully break God's morality laws, eg commit murder, sexual immorality, stealing, lying/cheating, idolatry, blasphemy, dishonor parents, etc.?
....... Misguided and ignorant Christians may likely commit sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking if they neglect most of the Law or think that the Law has been abolished for them or be like a robot and just rely on the work of the indwelling Spirit to keep them from sinning.?(HEBREWS.10:26-31) Similarly, not even American atheists are allowed to break US Law and commit murder and stealing/robbery in USA without repercussions, what more US Christians. ...

MATTHEW.22: = 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? 19 Show Me the tax money.”

So they brought Him a denarius.

20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”

21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
(The Law/commandment of God/Jesus says that Christians should pay taxes to Caesar = the local national government, eg the US govt - ROMANS.13)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus did God's work and did good every single day.


So whats the difference.

He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.​

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. Romans 14:5-8

JLB

If you know God's WORD please show us the scripture where Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath?

If you know God's WORD then you would know God's 4th Commandments is talking about your own work and business not God's work and doing good on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12)

There is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[JLB777]

If you know God's WORD please show us the scripture where Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath?

Is the Sabbath a day? LOL.

If you don’t believe the Sabbath is a day, then please provide the scriptures to prove that the Sabbath is not a day.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. Romans 14:5-6



The context of what Paul is teaching here refers to the commandments, where the Sabbath is found.

if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”​

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-12



JLB

 

[corinth77777]

"LoveGodsWord, post: 73113675, member: 398970"]Hello brother corinth, nice to see you again brother.

Good question. You need to consider the withing scripture and chapter context. This will show the topic of conversation.

Some examples ...

Mosaic Shadow laws from the book of the covenant (COL 2:16-17)...

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

The shadow laws for remission of sins and sin offerings pointed to and are fulfilled in Christ our perfect lamb of God who is our sacfifice for the sins of the world. (See the within scripture context is laws on sin offerings not 10 Commandments)

Now 10 Commandments...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Context and subject matter here is fulfilling God's LAW 10 Commandmetns are mentioned as our duty of LOVE to our fellow man.

Hope this is helpful Brother corinth.
Corinth77777
The 2 words words I High lighted in your post [the law] may be just this example when in reference to The Law of Moses....
As opposed to the spiritual laws

 

[expos4ever]

There is a practice here that needs to be exposed to sunlight - to suit their argument, people introduce arbitrary restrictions, qualifications, or distortions of meaning relative to what is written.

A prime example is Galatians 3:24-25 which analogizes the Law to a tutor and then, yes, clearly states we are no longer under that tutor.

And yet people will (discliper7 in this instance) will say things like we still need the law to govern the earthly aspect of our lives.

Thus is frankly indefensible , and needs to be called out as such - it is simply not kosher to arbitrarily change the clear meaning of what is written.

Let’s be clear about is being claimed by this poster: he or she would have us believe that even though Paul says we no longer need the Law as a tutor, we go on treating the law precisely AS a tutor - using it as a source of moral guidance.

How sensible is that?

 

[corinth77777]

There is a practice here that needs to be exposed to sunlight - to suit their argument, people introduce arbitrary restrictions or qualifications on what is written.

A prime example is Galatians 3:24-25 which analogizes the Law to a tutor and then, yes, clearly states we are no longer under that tutor.

And yet people will (discliper7 in thus instance) will say things like we still need the law to govern the earthly aspect of our lives.

Thus is frankly indefensible , and needs to be called out as such it is simply not kosher to arbitrarily restrict a statement.

Let’s be clear about is being claimed by this poster: he or she would have us believe that even though Paul says we no longer need the Law as a tutor, we go in treating The precisely AS a tutor.

How sensible is that?

The Law leads anyone who is still not in Christ to Jesus....once Faith comes one is no longer under The Law.

The Law is no longer the source [old Covenant system] for righteousness.

Yet one needs to recognize they are SINNERS and in need of a savior.

So it's the course the way that leads one to Christ.
But once Faith has come we are no longer under that tutor....
"
Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ"

So why was this asked? Because they were doing what some SDA members seem to be doing. Trying to put us back under the law....

We are Governed by Spiritual laws...These things we learn to do and do them because of Love. Because we are learning "How to live in the kingdom." D.Willard

Matthew 9:17



Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

 

[corinth77777]

The Law leads anyone who is still not in Christ to Jesus....once Faith comes one is no longer under The Law.

The Law is no longer the source [old Covenant system] for righteousness.

Yet one needs to recognize they are SINNERS and in need of a savior.

So it's the course the way that leads one to Christ.
But once Faith has come we are no longer under that tutor....
"
Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ"

So why was this asked? Because they were doing what some SDA members seem to be doing. Trying to put us back under the law....

We are Governed by Spiritual laws...These things we learn to do and do them because of Love. Because we are learning "How to live in the kingdom." D.Willard

Matthew 9:17



Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

Delete

 

[JLB777]

The Law leads anyone who is still not in Christ to Jesus....once Faith comes one is no longer under The Law.

Which law?

There is the law (Torah) which pertains to the first 5 books of the Old Testament.


Then there is the law of Moses.


Then there is the 10 commandments which is sometimes referred to as the law.


Then there is the law of sin and death.


Then there is the law of Christ.



JLB

 

[discipler7]

A prime example is Galatians 3:24-25 which analogizes the Law to a tutor and then, yes, clearly states we are no longer under that tutor.

And yet people will (discliper7 in this instance) will say things like we still need the law to govern the earthly aspect of our lives.

GALATIANS.3:24-25 = 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

It is also common sense that after college students have graduated, they are no longer under the college.
....... But that does not mean that what the graduates had learned in school and college are no longer needed or are now useless or should be abolished or forgotten or ignored or neglected, like the abolition of the 10 Commandments and the Law.
....... Consider also, there are youngsters who never attended college or high school or even elementary school.

Like I said before, HEBREWS.10:15-16 says that after faith has come in the new covenant, God/Lord/Spirit will put His Law into the believers' hearts and write them in their minds, ...

HEBREWS.10:15-16 = 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”

Problem is, most Gentile Christians were previously lawless and were never tutored by the Law or they never went to spiritual school or college, unlike the mostly law-abiding Jewish Christians like Paul and John. GAL.3 and HEB.10 apply to Jewish Christians, but cannot be applied to Gentile Christians.

So, after faith has come for the mostly lawless Gentiles, there aren't many morality laws that God could put into their hearts and write in their minds. Gentile Christians need to learn the non-burdensome morality laws of God.(ACTS.15:28-29) They should not see the Law as abolished or to be ignored or forgotten or neglected. Otherwise, they may easily and ignorantly fall into sins/evil-deeds and suffer the consequences.

 

[Soyeong]

You said.

The text does not say what you said. The disciples were indeed breaking the Sabbath, read the passage below again.

Matthew 12:1-5
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

Jesus did not say to the Pharisees that the disciples were not breaking the Sabbath. On the contrary, Jesus, in fact, directly points to David breaking the Sabbath when he was hungry.

Jesus is agreeing with the Pharisees that the disciples were breaking the Sabbath. The disciples are innocent only because they are with the Lord of the Sabbath.

You need to explain why Jesus uses the example of David breaking the Sabbath, in defending the disciples.

In Matthew 12:7, he criticized the Pharisees for condemning the innocent, so he explicitly considered the disciples to be innocent of breaking the Sabbath. This is in parallel with what he said in verse 6 about the priests who profane the Sabbath by performing their duties on it who are held innocent as well as with David and his men who ate the showbread who were held innocent of doing what was unlawful. Even though they broke the letter of the law they were held innocent of because they didn't break the spirit of the law.

 

[corinth77777]

Which law?

There is the law (Torah) which pertains to the first 5 books of the Old Testament.


Then there is the law of Moses.


Then there is the 10 commandments which is sometimes referred to as the law.


Then there is the law of sin and death.


Then there is the law of Christ.



JLB

Duet 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, [that] the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, [even] the tables of the covenant

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious so that the children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which... was to be done away.

Vs. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart 2 cor 3:3

 

[klutedavid]

In Matthew 12:7, he criticized the Pharisees for condemning the innocent, so he explicitly considered the disciples to be innocent of breaking the Sabbath. This is in parallel with what he said in verse 6 about the priests who profane the Sabbath by performing their duties on it who are held innocent as well as with David and his men who ate the showbread who were held innocent of doing what was unlawful. Even though they broke the letter of the law they were held innocent of because they didn't break the spirit of the law.

Hello Soyeong.

You gave me two contrary answers to whether the disciples were breaking the Sabbath?

The first reply.

The purpose of a disciple coming under the yoke of a rabbi was to learn from them how to obey the Torah, so if the disciple had been breaking the Sabbath, then Jesus would have corrected them, but they were not. There is a fundamental difference between someone harvesting their field to sell on the market and someone plucking a few grain of wheat, rubbing them together, and putting them in their mouth.

You definitely stated that the disciples were not breaking the Sabbath.

Then you later replied with this.

Even though they broke the letter of the law they were held innocent of because they didn't break the spirit of the law.

Now you can't possibly have it both ways, either the disciples broke the letter of the Sabbath law. Or the disciples did not break the letter of the law.

Soyeong, make up your mind?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is the Sabbath a day? LOL. If you don’t believe the Sabbath is a day, then please provide the scriptures to prove that the Sabbath is not a day. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. Romans 14:5-6

Is the SABBATH a DAY? Good question JBL, which day is it?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

The origin of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH commandment is from the creation week of Genesis

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: BECAUSE HE HAD RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD HAD CREATED AND MADE.

DEUTERONOMY 5:12 [12], Keep the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY] to sanctify it, as the LORD your God has commanded you.

NEHEMIAH 13:17 [17], Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said to them, What evil thing is this that you do, and profane the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY]?

JEREMIAH 17:21-22 [21], Thus said the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY], nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; [22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do you any work, but hallow you the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY], as I commanded your fathers.

yep everyone in the OLD COVENANT knew God's Sabbath was a day. What about the NEW?

MATTHEW 12:8 [8] For the Son of man is Lord even of the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY]

Yep Jesus says that the Sabbath is a day so that about does it for me. What about you?

MATTHEW 12:11 [11], And he said to them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY], will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

MATTHEW 24:20 [20] But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY]

Yep Jesus is still calling the Sabbath a day even after his death.

ACT 13:44 And the next SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY] came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

ACT 15:21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every SABBATH DAY [SEVENTH DAY].

Yep seems like Jesus, Paul and all the Apostles knew that the Sabbath day was the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK .

Now we know that God's Sabbath is the SEVENTH DAY that God set apart as a HOLY DAY and it is God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) and there is SEVEN OTHER DAYS that make up a week.

Now please show the scriptures to your claim that ROMANS 14 is talking about the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH?

Where in Romans 14 does it talk about God's 4th Commandment Sabbath? If you are quoting Romans 14 were does it say in this chapter that it is talking about God's commandments or where does it talk about God's Sabbath? Are you reading something into scripture here that it does not say?

Romans 14 is talking about eating and fasting connected to days that some men esteem over others. It is not talking about what God esteems or God's commandments. Romans 14 is not talking about God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH Commandment and there is not one scripture in the chapter that supports what you are trying to read into the scriptures.

If you disagree prove that this chapter is talking about the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath. It is not even the topic of conversation within the chapter which is food and fasting connected to days that men esteem over other days.

The context of what Paul is teaching here refers to the commandments, where the Sabbath is found.

if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”​

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-12 JLB

The Context of ROMANS 13:8-12 is that LOVE is summed up in the EXPRESSION of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 Commandments) v8;10 Paul in Romans 13:8-12 is focusing on the 2nd great commandment of LOVE to our neigbore v10 and says that the 2nd great commandment of LOVE do our neighbore is fulfilled in OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 Commandments) v9 concluding that LOVE to our neighbore is summed up in OBEDIENCE/fulfilling or doing God's Commandments [Exodus 20:12-17 or commandments 5-10 the last 6 of the 10 Commandments).

Now Paul's focus here is on the 2nd great commandment of LOVE to our neighbore. There are two great Commandments from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 that Jesus talks about in Matthew 22:36-40 and says that LOVE sums up all of God's LAW in these two great commandments of LOVE. Now your not suggesting are you JBL that because the first 4 Commandments are which sum up our duty of LOVE to GOD are not being discussed in Romans 13:8-12 which is talking about our duty of LOVE to our neughbore that we are now free to break the first 4 Commandments of the 10 Commandments that show our duty of LOVE to God are you?

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Hope this is helpful