Will those standing before God in judgment even ask for salvation?

[Sam81]

Very often I come across the argument that a loving God cannot send a person to hell. And while the usual reply is that people send themselves there, this fact is sometimes seen as irrelevant under the assumption that, once in hell, people will be begging for God to forgive them. But I'm not so sure that such an assumption is correct.

I feel that God must, on account of His good and loving nature and the fulfillment of scripture, forgive any and all who sincerely call upon Him to be saved. There are a myriad of scriptures in the Bible that attest to the fact that the Lord will turn no one away who calls upon Him. And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

There is harmony in the scriptures - at no point should two scriptures conflict with one another. It's because of this, for example, that we know that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never actually seek salvation, and that if one does in fact seek salvation, it is proof that said person cannot actually be guilty of committing the unpardonable sin. I believe this same line of reasoning applies to those who die in their sins, as Romans 10:13 does not say, "Whosoever should call upon the name of the Lord, while still alive, shall be saved.".

At no point in the Bible does it indicate that people in judgment will attempt to repent. In fact, the Bible teaches that in the tribulation, even after intense and ongoing suffering the likes of which causes those who suffer to wish they were dead Revelation 9:6, they still will not repent. Revelation 16:11

It's because they cannot repent. All who receive the mark of the Beast are damned. Revelation 14:9-11 There is no salvation for the same reason as when a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit: the Holy Spirit is gone, and can no longer lead them to repentance. 2 Thessalonians 2:7

Seeing as how we live before the rapture, it is hard to imagine the state of a man being so wicked and evil that he wouldn't repent no matter how great his suffering, but the truth is that, until the rapture, the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting men of sin; it is the Holy Spirit which prevents people from sliding all the way into a level of darkness precluding repentance. Once the Holy Spirit leaves this world, having been raptured along with the church, there will be nothing left to prevent the spiral of mankind into the abyss; there will be nothing left to convict mankind of sin. This is why the people of that day will refuse to repent, and no matter how much suffering and fear they endure. Again, I believe this also holds true in the age to come.

Notice how the Bible never suggests that a person in hell, or damned to hell, will attempt to repent. The rich man never repented. He merely asks for water and for his brothers to be warned. The people who come to Jesus on the day of judgment never repent. In fact, they make excuses. And on the day of judgment it is said that the people actually run from God! They want NO PART of the Lord. Revelation 20:11. The Word of God says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luke 13:28 The weeping is understandable, though it is not repentance. They are upset because of their own predicament. But the gnashing of teeth? This indicates intense hatred and anger, just as it did when Stephen was stoned. Acts 7:54 The people bound for hell will be sorry for themselves, but will have nothing but utter hatred and murderous contempt in the light of a glorified Jesus. Remember, not only is the Holy Spirit no longer active in these people, but at this point there is nothing good left in them at all. Matthew 13:12

So while it is sometimes hard to understand what a person could do to actually deserve being sent to such a place, remember that right now we don't see the whole picture. 1 Corinthians 13:12 You are thinking of people as they are now, as you see them, rather than what they really are, and what they will become.

 

[brinny]

Very often I come across the argument that a loving God cannot send a person to hell. And while the usual reply is that people send themselves there, this fact is sometimes seen as irrelevant under the assumption that people will be begging for God to forgive them in hell. But I'm not so sure that such an assumption is correct.

I feel that God must, on account of His good and loving nature and the fulfillment of scripture, forgive any and all who sincerely call upon Him to be saved. There are a myriad of scriptures in the Bible that attest to the fact that the Lord will turn no one away who calls upon Him. And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

There is harmony in the scriptures - at no point should two scriptures conflict with one another. It's because of this, for example, that we know that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never actually seek salvation, and that if one does in fact seek salvation, it is proof that said person cannot actually be guilty of committing the unpardonable sin. I believe this same line of reasoning applies to those who die in their sins, as Romans 10:13 does not say, "Whosoever should call upon the name of the Lord, as long as they are still alive, they shall be saved.".

At no point in the Bible does it say that people in judgment will actually repent. In fact, the Bible teaches that in the tribulation, even after intense and ongoing suffering the likes of which causes those who suffer to wish they were dead, it is written that they still will not repent. Revelation 16:11

It's because they cannot repent. All who receive the mark of the Beast are damned. Revelation 14:9-11 There is no salvation for the same reason as when a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit: the Holy Spirit is gone, and can no longer lead them to repentance.

Seeing as how we live before the rapture, it is hard to imagine the state of a man being so wicked and evil that he wouldn't repent no matter how great his suffering, but the truth is that, until the rapture, the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting men of sin; the truth is that it is the Holy Spirit which prevents people from sliding all the way into a level of darkness precluding repentance. Once the Holy Spirit leaves this world, having been raptured along with the church, there will be nothing left to prevent mankind's spiral into the abyss - nothing left to convict of sin. This is why the people of that day will refuse to repent, and no matter how much suffering and fear they endure. Again, I believe this also holds true in the age to come.

Notice how the Bible never suggests that a person in hell, or damned to hell, will attempt to repent. The rich man never repented. He merely asks for water and for his brothers to be warned. Luke 16:19-31. The people who come to Jesus on the day of judgment never repent Matthew 7:22 In fact, they make excuses. And on the day of judgment it is said that the people actually run from God! They want NO PART of the Lord. Revelation 20:11. The Word of God says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luke 13:28 The weeping is understandable, though it is not repentance. They are upset because of their own predicament. But the gnashing of teeth? This indicates intense hatred and anger, just as it did when Stephen was stoned. Acts 7:54 The people bound for hell will be sorry for themselves, but will have nothing but utter hatred and murderous contempt in the light of a glorified Jesus. Remember, not only is the Holy Spirit no longer active in these people, but at this point there is nothing good left in them at all. Matthew 13:12

So while it is sometimes hard to understand what a person could do to actually deserve being sent to such a place, remember that right now we don't see the whole picture. 1 Corinthians 13:12 You are thinking of people as they are now, as you see them, rather than what they really are, and what they will become.

You've made some valid points regarding repentance and how those who are, like the rich man, opposed to it to the very last. What also comes to mind is what was told to the rich man, and that is, that even if Lazarus was sent back to the rich man's brothers to warn them, they would not heed him. What also is glaring is that even in the state that this rich man was, how he continued treating Lazarus.

It seems this is what the Bible speaks of when it is written that the door of grace will not always be open, and that God will not always strive with man. What comes to mind, is that God's Holy Spirit will not always be wooing hearts. When that stops (and it will when the door of grace is closed by God Himself, just as He closed the door of the ark) there will be no more grace.

The age of grace will be over. The door of grace will have been closed.

Terrifying, isn't it?

That is why we are warned that "today" is the day of salvation. "Now" is the time.

For we are NOT promised "tomorrow".

Nobody is.

Perhaps 'tis best to heed the warning.

Thank you for this profound study.

 

[bcbsr]

Despite torment, there are those who refuse to repent, and not only in hell.

Re 9:20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

Re 9:21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Re 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

Re 16:11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.

 

[bling]

"repenting" only with a gun to your head is not really your repenting.

 

[Sam91]

[Hmmm... no wonder people seem to think I'm male]

The Bible speaks very clearly about the penalty of sin. There are also those who think they are saved but aren't because they never truly repented and lived obediently.

Matthew 7:21

 

[Petros2015]

The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis speaks to this a lot if you have never read that book before it is excellent.

====

"I am troubled, Sir," said I, "because that unhappy creature doesn't seem to me to be the sort of soul that ought to be even in danger of damnation. She isn't wicked: she's only a silly, garrulous [talkative] old woman who has got into a habit of grumbling, and one feels that a little kindness, and rest, and change would put her all right."

"That is what she once was. That is maybe what she still is. If so, she certainly will be cured. But the whole question is whether she is now a grumbler."

"I should have thought there was no doubt about that!"

"Aye, but ye misunderstand me. The question is whether she is a grumbler, or only a grumble. If there is a real woman -- even the least trace of one -- still there inside the grumbling, it can be brought to life again. If there's one wee spark under all those ashes, we'll blow it till the whole pile is red and clear. But if there's nothing but ashes we'll not go on blowing them in our own eyes forever. They must be swept up."

"But how can there be a grumble without a grumbler?"

"The whole difficulty of understanding Hell is that the thing to be understood is so nearly Nothing. But ye'll have had experiences... it begins with a grumbling mood, and yourself still distinct from it: perhaps criticising it. And yourself, in a dark hour, may will that mood, embrace it. Ye can repent and come out of it again. But there may come a day when you can do that no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticise the mood, nor even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself going on forever like a machine....

--C. S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, 74-75

 

[Greg J.]

Very often I come across the argument that a loving God cannot send a person to hell. And while the usual reply is that people send themselves there, this fact is sometimes seen as irrelevant under the assumption that, once in hell, people will be begging for God to forgive them. But I'm not so sure that such an assumption is correct.

I feel that God must, on account of His good and loving nature and the fulfillment of scripture, forgive any and all who sincerely call upon Him to be saved. There are a myriad of scriptures in the Bible that attest to the fact that the Lord will turn no one away who calls upon Him. And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

There is harmony in the scriptures - at no point should two scriptures conflict with one another. It's because of this, for example, that we know that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never actually seek salvation, and that if one does in fact seek salvation, it is proof that said person cannot actually be guilty of committing the unpardonable sin. I believe this same line of reasoning applies to those who die in their sins, as Romans 10:13 does not say, "Whosoever should call upon the name of the Lord, while still alive, shall be saved.".

At no point in the Bible does it indicate that people in judgment will attempt to repent. In fact, the Bible teaches that in the tribulation, even after intense and ongoing suffering the likes of which causes those who suffer to wish they were dead Revelation 9:6, they still will not repent. Revelation 16:11

It's because they cannot repent. All who receive the mark of the Beast are damned. Revelation 14:9-11 There is no salvation for the same reason as when a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit: the Holy Spirit is gone, and can no longer lead them to repentance.

Seeing as how we live before the rapture, it is hard to imagine the state of a man being so wicked and evil that he wouldn't repent no matter how great his suffering, but the truth is that, until the rapture, the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting men of sin; it is the Holy Spirit which prevents people from sliding all the way into a level of darkness precluding repentance. Once the Holy Spirit leaves this world, having been raptured along with the church, there will be nothing left to prevent the spiral of mankind into the abyss; there will be nothing left to convict mankind of sin. This is why the people of that day will refuse to repent, and no matter how much suffering and fear they endure. Again, I believe this also holds true in the age to come.

Notice how the Bible never suggests that a person in hell, or damned to hell, will attempt to repent. The rich man never repented. He merely asks for water and for his brothers to be warned. The people who come to Jesus on the day of judgment never repent. In fact, they make excuses. And on the day of judgment it is said that the people actually run from God! They want NO PART of the Lord. Revelation 20:11. The Word of God says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luke 13:28 The weeping is understandable, though it is not repentance. They are upset because of their own predicament. But the gnashing of teeth? This indicates intense hatred and anger, just as it did when Stephen was stoned. Acts 7:54 The people bound for hell will be sorry for themselves, but will have nothing but utter hatred and murderous contempt in the light of a glorified Jesus. Remember, not only is the Holy Spirit no longer active in these people, but at this point there is nothing good left in them at all. Matthew 13:12

So while it is sometimes hard to understand what a person could do to actually deserve being sent to such a place, remember that right now we don't see the whole picture. 1 Corinthians 13:12 You are thinking of people as they are now, as you see them, rather than what they really are, and what they will become.

The condemned will "call on the name of the Lord," but it will not be because they want him to be their Lord, it will because they want pain relief without (genuinely and freely) accepting him as their Lord. Some will see the Lord as the reason they are suffering and may not even call on him due to believing that would bring more of their "enemy" upon them (more pain).

There are two problems that unbelievers face: (1) they are not forgiven, and (2) their nature is sinful, inherited from Adam. Believing in Jesus and asking his forgiveness resolves #1, but it does not by itself resolve #2. After #1 happens, God grants #2 (rebirth) to save us because he loves us. Coming into the presence of the Lord while still having a sinful nature destroys that person (the physical cognate being stated in Exodus 33:20 and sort of illustrated in Isaiah 6:5), which when dead bodily, means goes to eternal torment (the second death). Moreover, being sinful in God's presence earns eternal condemnation, because the person is not rejecting God by faith (or lack thereof), but by sight. This is what Satan did and IMO why he is not redeemable—nor anyone else that does the same. As scripture says many times, salvation is only by faith (i.e., not by sight).

 

[Chinchilla]

And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

Too late after death
There are Scriptures contradicting your point of view for example tribulation people , if person bowed down to image of Beast or took mark upon forhead or hand then even if he kept all commandments and wanted to be saved he can't because he will have his part with Lake of fire .

 

[SkyWriting]

And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

I read that as well. The story of the rich man and Lazarus says the same.
Luke 16:19-31 NIV - The Rich Man and Lazarus

 

[SkyWriting]

Too late after death
There are Scriptures contradicting your point of view for example tribulation people , if person bowed down to image of Beast or took mark upon forhead or hand then even if he kept all commandments and wanted to be saved he can't because he will have his part with Lake of fire .

Its never too late because time does not exist after death.
That's why it's called eternal or endless.

 

[SkyWriting]

"repenting" only with a gun to your head is not really your repenting.

Repenting only comes after faith. You can't feel sorry for your actions if you are the ....trump.

 

[Call me Nic]

Very often I come across the argument that a loving God cannot send a person to hell. And while the usual reply is that people send themselves there, this fact is sometimes seen as irrelevant under the assumption that, once in hell, people will be begging for God to forgive them. But I'm not so sure that such an assumption is correct.

I feel that God must, on account of His good and loving nature and the fulfillment of scripture, forgive any and all who sincerely call upon Him to be saved. There are a myriad of scriptures in the Bible that attest to the fact that the Lord will turn no one away who calls upon Him. And because there are no qualifications attached to such scriptures, I conclude that those who will ultimately stand before God will, at no point, repent of their wickedness.

There is harmony in the scriptures - at no point should two scriptures conflict with one another. It's because of this, for example, that we know that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never actually seek salvation, and that if one does in fact seek salvation, it is proof that said person cannot actually be guilty of committing the unpardonable sin. I believe this same line of reasoning applies to those who die in their sins, as Romans 10:13 does not say, "Whosoever should call upon the name of the Lord, while still alive, shall be saved.".

At no point in the Bible does it indicate that people in judgment will attempt to repent. In fact, the Bible teaches that in the tribulation, even after intense and ongoing suffering the likes of which causes those who suffer to wish they were dead Revelation 9:6, they still will not repent. Revelation 16:11

It's because they cannot repent. All who receive the mark of the Beast are damned. Revelation 14:9-11 There is no salvation for the same reason as when a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit: the Holy Spirit is gone, and can no longer lead them to repentance.

Seeing as how we live before the rapture, it is hard to imagine the state of a man being so wicked and evil that he wouldn't repent no matter how great his suffering, but the truth is that, until the rapture, the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting men of sin; it is the Holy Spirit which prevents people from sliding all the way into a level of darkness precluding repentance. Once the Holy Spirit leaves this world, having been raptured along with the church, there will be nothing left to prevent the spiral of mankind into the abyss; there will be nothing left to convict mankind of sin. This is why the people of that day will refuse to repent, and no matter how much suffering and fear they endure. Again, I believe this also holds true in the age to come.

Notice how the Bible never suggests that a person in hell, or damned to hell, will attempt to repent. The rich man never repented. He merely asks for water and for his brothers to be warned. The people who come to Jesus on the day of judgment never repent. In fact, they make excuses. And on the day of judgment it is said that the people actually run from God! They want NO PART of the Lord. Revelation 20:11. The Word of God says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luke 13:28 The weeping is understandable, though it is not repentance. They are upset because of their own predicament. But the gnashing of teeth? This indicates intense hatred and anger, just as it did when Stephen was stoned. Acts 7:54 The people bound for hell will be sorry for themselves, but will have nothing but utter hatred and murderous contempt in the light of a glorified Jesus. Remember, not only is the Holy Spirit no longer active in these people, but at this point there is nothing good left in them at all. Matthew 13:12

So while it is sometimes hard to understand what a person could do to actually deserve being sent to such a place, remember that right now we don't see the whole picture. 1 Corinthians 13:12 You are thinking of people as they are now, as you see them, rather than what they really are, and what they will become.

A bunch of great points, and I agree with you (except for the Spirit not being present after the rapture); I think those people that are condemned are they that have their hearts hardened and their eyes blinded as you infer. You make a very interesting observation: the people being condemned during judgement and the example of the man in hell are they who never even seek to repent, as if it doesn't even cross their mind, which makes sense considering God gives those kinds of people over to reprobate (rejected) minds according to Romans 1.

 

[brinny]

A bunch of great points, and I agree with you (except for the Spirit not being present after the rapture); I think those people that are condemned are they that have their hearts hardened and their eyes blinded as you infer. You make a very interesting observation: the people being condemned during judgement and the example of the man in hell are they who never even seek to repent, as if it doesn't even cross their mind, which makes sense considering God gives those kinds of people over to reprobate (rejected) minds according to Romans 1.

I agree with you (except for the Spirit not being present after the rapture)

This verse comes to mind:

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man," ~Gen 6:3

 

[Chinchilla]

Its never too late because time does not exist after death.
That's why it's called eternal or endless.

Exists , we and angels are finite beings we need time to think and move , we think in sequences

 

[Call me Nic]

This verse comes to mind:

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man," ~Gen 6:3

Isn't that referring to the flood that should come soon thereafter?

 

[brinny]

Isn't that referring to the flood that should come soon thereafter?

It refers to God's Holy Spirit "striving" with man.

There will come a finality of when God's Holy Spirit "ceases" striving with man, such as when man, even as disaster escalates, continues to spew curses at God till their dying breath. They will never desire nor seek repentance, nor God's mercy and grace, and instead, as it were, spit in God's face, even as they are dying.

How tragic is that?

There is a REASON that we were warned that "TODAY" is the day of salvation.

It IS urgent.

 

[Call me Nic]

It refers to God's Holy Spirit "striving" with man.

There will come a finality of when God's Holy Spirit "ceases" striving with man, such as when man, even as disaster escalates, continues to spew curses at God till their dying breath. They will never desire nor seek repentance, nor God's mercy and grace, and instead, as it were, spit in God's face, even as they are dying.

How tragic is that?

There is a REASON that we were warned that "TODAY" is the day of salvation.

It IS urgent.

Perhaps you're right.
But, I'm not going to agree with or disagree with you on it so that the thread doesn't get derailed.

 

[SkyWriting]

Exists , we and angels are finite beings we need time to think and move , we think in sequences

In Spirit all time is the same and not in sequence.
Sequential events are due to the deteriation
of creation, so Adam and Eve would not experience
death before the Fall. Time did not exist.

Time is a temporary delay of the wages of our sin.
Without it we would instantly die.

 

[brinny]

Will those standing before God in judgment even ask for salvation?

Perhaps you're right.
But, I'm not going to agree with or disagree with you on it so that the thread doesn't get derailed.

Hi Nicholas. It doesn't derail the thread, as it ties right in to the condition of those unrepentant souls standing before the White Throne of God, and HOW they got there, and whether they would even WANT to repent, ever.

Unfortunately they are forever in the same tragic condition that they will be in for all of eternity.

Unrepentant.

Tragic, isn't it?

 

[Chinchilla]

In Spirit all time is the same and not in sequence.
Sequential events are due to the deteriation
of creation, so Adam and Eve would not experience
death before the Fall. Time did not exist.

Can you prove it with Scriptures ?