Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

[BABerean2]

We are of Abraham seed because Christ was , not because Abraham gave us birth correct ?

What did John the Baptist tell the Jewish people about putting their faith in being Abraham's seed?

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


What did Paul say below about the Abrahamic promise?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


What did Paul say below about using genealogies?

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


We have been adopted into the family of God through faith in Christ, based on Galatians 3:16-29.

.

 

[jgr]

trust me those orthodox jews got it all worked out to a science......

i believe they test everyone before they become citizens....

they have in the passt made an acception to ethiopians as there has been a jewish community in ethiopia since the days of queen sheba.....

There's nothing that they need to work out, because the Jewish community itself declares that its DNA is ubiquitous in the entire human race.

That ubiquity is confirmable in science, both genetically and mathematically.

God has no interest in physical DNA for identifying His Chosen People.

He has every interest in spiritual DNA, also known as faith and obedience.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/tracing-lost-israelite-tribes-to-africa-1.5283901
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/index.html
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

 

[Chinchilla]

What did John the Baptist tell the Jewish people about putting their faith in being Abraham's seed?

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


What did Paul say below about the Abrahamic promise?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


What did Paul say below about using genealogies?

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


We have been adopted into the family of God through faith in Christ, based on Galatians 3:16-29.

.

You do not see difference between salvation and inheritance .

 

[BABerean2]

You do not see difference between salvation and inheritance .

Based on the verses below, does God owe an inheritance to those who reject His Son?

Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Mat 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Judas was Abraham's seed.
What inheritance does God owe to Judas?

.

 

[Chinchilla]

Based on the verses below, does God owe an inheritance to those who reject His Son?

Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Mat 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Judas was Abraham's seed.
What inheritance does God owe to Judas?

.

No , but we inherit better promises than they did in OT which can be lost if we are disobedient.

1 Corinthians 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Revelation 3:11
“Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”


Paul clearly knew the difference between salvation and inheritance .

He said in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it's free ( the salvation ) and that we are sealed untill the day of resurrection in Ephesians 1:13-14 but said also that he kept the faith to obtain the inheritance (crown ) and was bothered that he could lose it 2 Timothy 4:7-8 and 1 Corinthians 9:27 .


Jew we are grafted in through Jesus for salvation but these OT people are not having the same promises as we do they had thier own .

 

[BABerean2]

Jew we are grafted in through Jesus for salvation but these OT people are not having the same promises as we do they had thier own .

The inheritance of all saints is found below.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Heb 11:15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.



There is only one people of God in the verse below.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine which you are promoting is a form of Dual Covenant Theology.

.

 

[Chinchilla]

The inheritance of all saints is found below.

Entering a city does not make you own it.
Everybody is rewarded according to his labour not like in socialism .

Revelation 22:12

 

[Biblewriter]

Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?
by William Bell​

Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

Posted by William Bell on October 30th, 2008

In seeking to answer the question, Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?, it is necessary to gather a bit of history of Israel.

Israel, the ancient nation of the Bible apostatized during the days of Jeroboam. After King Solomon’s death, God tore Israel (the 10 northern tribes) from the house of David.

Their crimes were are follows:

•Leaving the commandments of God,
•Making a molded image and two calves
•Making a wooden image
•Worshiping all the host of heaven (sun, moon, stars, etc)
•Serving Baal
•Child sacrifices
•Practicing witchcraft and soothsaying
•Selling themselves to do evil provoking God to anger

For these reasons, God was very angry with Israel and removed them from his sight until none of them were left but the tribe of Judah alone, (2 Kings 17:15–18).

In 722 BC, God delivered Israel into Assyrian captivity. At that time, the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel. (2 Kings 17:24)

Samaria was the capital of Northern tribes. Israel was scattered among the Gentiles. Hosea prophesies that God would no longer have mercy upon Israel, (1:6), saying they were no longer his people, (1:9).

Yet, in fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, (Gen. 22:17; 32:12), God would make Israel as the sand of the sea and once again call them his people. He would again gather the nation together under one head with Judah and form them into one nation. (Hos. 1:10, 11).

Was 1948 the regathering of Israel in Bible prophecy? A recent article published in the front page of The Fiji Time Online titled “Divine Intervention” (Oct. 26, 2008), called the 1948 settlement fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Consider 7 Bible reasons 1948 cannot be the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

1.The prophecies of Israel’s regathering are quoted in the New Testament by the apostles and are said to be fulfilled in Christ through the gospel.Compare: Hosea 1:9, 10; 2:23; with Romans 9:25, 26; 1 Peter 2:9 Isaiah 10:20–23 with Romans 9:27, 28


2.The majority of the Jews who are settled in the land of Israel are not the descendants of Abraham.Consider:

The Ashkenazi Jews, (comprising the world’s largest population of Jews are of European German descent.

Ashkenazi, means German and German speaking. Ashenaz was the great grandson of Noah, through Japheth. (Gen. 10:3)

The indigenous or ethnic population of Jews in Israel is comparatively small.

The line of Jews who were descended from Abraham were the descendants of Noah through Shem. Thus, the Ashkenazi Jews are not genetically related to Shem, hence are not the seed of Abraham. (Gen. 11:10–27).


3.Sitivina Rabuka cites Jeremiah 31:10, as proof that God would protect Israel from those who would attack them and seek to destroy them.However, he overlooks the fact that God promised that Israel would never be attacked or have their land threatened on any of the three annual feast days. (Exod. 34:23)

Yet, Israel was attacked on Yom Kippur, 1973. In the Bible, each time ancient Israel was attacked on a feast day, it was proof that Israel had broken the covenant.

Don K. Preston of Preterist Research Institute in Israel 1948, Countdown to Nowhere, argues that Josephus (first century Jewish Historian and other Jewish sources) cite that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost in 586 BC., (p. 26)

Preston also points out that according to Josephus, an eyewitness of the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem took place during Pentecost, one of Israel’s three special feast days for disobedience to the covenant, Matthew 23–24).

Modern Israel was attacked on the Passover on 3/27/2002. Each time in the past Biblical History, Israel is attacked on the feast days for disobedience to to the covenant.

Thus, rather than proving Israel’s protection, an attack on the feast days proved that God was in disfavor with Israel.


4.Through Christ, God created a new nation of Israel, i.e. descendants of Abraham through faith, not flesh, (Gal. 3:26–29).Romans 2:28–29, speaks of those who are Jews inwardly, versus according to the flesh. Later Paul says those of the flesh are not counted as the seed of Abraham, Rom. 9:5–6, but that Christians, comprised of believing Jews and Gentiles, are the new Israel of God, Gal. 6:16.



5.As a direct result of their unbelief and disobedience the Jewish nation would be cast off forever from God’s presence and covenant people. (Gal. 4:26) This means that modern Israel, unless they are believers in Christ, are not the people of God.Moses prophesied that all who would not hear the Christ would be cut off from Israel, (Acts 3:22, 23).



6.All Old Testament prophecy has now been fulfilled. According to Luke 21:20–22, Jesus said the A.D. 70, destruction of Jerusalem was God’s vengeance upon the nation for crucifying Christ and his followers.



7.The land promises to fleshly Israel were all fulfilled under Joshua, (21:43–45) and Solomon, 1 Kings 4:24, 25), to which Israel was allowed to return under Cyrus following the Babylonian captivity.The physical land of Canaan was never “ultimate” promise land of God’s people, but merely a shadow and type of the true heavenly land promised to the Patriarchs according to Hebrews 11:13–16; 12:22–23)


1948, offers nothing in the promises of God for Israel, the new spiritual nation reborn in Christ.


Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

I also reject the concept that 1948 was a fulfillment of prophecy, but not for any of the reasons listed in this very unscriptural argument.

The prophecies about a return of Israel, clearly speak of it as a return of all Israel, not just part of it. Some prophecies. like the prophecy of the dry bones, appear to imply that this return will be in stages, but not even one actually states that.

Isaiah 66 makes it exceedingly clear that the promised return will take place after Messiah returns, not before.

since before the year 200, students of Bible prophecy have known that Judah (the Jews) would return to the land. This knowledge again became widespread soon after the King James Version of the Bible made, for the first time, Bibles widely available at a price common men could afford.

Students of Bible prophecy have known this because the end time scenario presented in the scriptures opens with Judah (the Jews) in the land. But not even one end time prophecy ever mentions this return. It is not mentioned because they were not expelled from the land until long after the scriptures were completed. So the scriptures mention neither their expulsion nor their return. They simply present them in the land when the end time scenario opens. But they also show them there in a state of rebellion and unbelief, even as their present state is.

So, although their return was not a fulfillment of any prophecy, it was a requirement for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

 

[BABerean2]

Everybody is rewarded according to his labour not like in socialism .

Then you are doomed, if you are going to rely on your own works, which are like filthy rags.

I am putting my faith in what He has already done at Calvary.

.

 

[Traveling teacher]

We do not trust you, or me, or any other man or woman.

On this forum we judge what you say in comparison to God's Word.

What did the Apostle Paul say below about using genealogies?

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


There has never been any DNA test required for Israeli citizenship, unless the rules have changed recently.
If you can prove otherwise, bring it out here and let us see it.

.

lighten up....

this has nothing to do with scripture.....or salvation

it is simply the way that the Jews test for Israeli citizenship.....

kinda like every country has a test for citizenship.....accept the US.....

depends on who the president is at the time...as laws are never followed.......

 

[ebedmelech]

I also reject the concept that 1948 was a fulfillment of prophecy, but not for any of the reasons listed in this very unscriptural argument.

The prophecies about a return of Israel, clearly speak of it as a return of all Israel, not just part of it. Some prophecies. like the prophecy of the dry bones, appear to imply that this return will be in stages, but not even one actually states that.

Isaiah 66 makes it exceedingly clear that the promised return will take place after Messiah returns, not before.

since before the year 200, students of Bible prophecy have known that Judah (the Jews) would return to the land. This knowledge again became widespread soon after the King James Version of the Bible made, for the first time, Bibles widely available at a price common men could afford.

Students of Bible prophecy have known this because the end time scenario presented in the scriptures opens with Judah (the Jews) in the land. But not even one end time prophecy ever mentions this return. It is not mentioned because they were not expelled from the land until long after the scriptures were completed. So the scriptures mention neither their expulsion nor their return. They simply present them in the land when the end time scenario opens. But they also show them there in a state of rebellion and unbelief, even as their present state is.

So, although their return was not a fulfillment of any prophecy, it was a requirement for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

Your post is what's unscriptural nonsense Biblewriter!

The apostle Paul makes this crystal clear to those NOT loyal to their theology but loyal to scripture, allowing scripture to make the point.

Romans chapters 2- 12 squashes your point of view entirely...and Paul uses the prophecy of the OT to do so.

Of course we've done this before...so there's no need to do it again....TIME WILL TELL.

BTW...why did you bypass Isaiah 65???

 

[Biblewriter]

Your post is what's unscriptural nonsense Biblewriter!

The apostle Paul makes this crystal clear to those NOT loyal to their theology but lotal to scripture, allowing scripture to make the point.

Romans chapters 2- 12 squashes your point of view entirely...and Paul uses the prophecy of the OT to do so.

Of course we've done this before...so there's no need to do it again....TIME WILL TELL.

BTW...why did you bypass Isaiah 65???

I have already demonstrated that Romans 9-11 very clearly teach the very opposite of what you claim.

 

[BABerean2]

it is simply the way that the Jews test for Israeli citizenship.....

No. What you claimed is not the way the Israelis test for citizenship.

.

 

[Chinchilla]

Then you are doomed, if you are going to rely on your own works, which are like filthy rags.

I am putting my faith in what He has already done at Calvary.

.

I didn't say we are saved according to our works but the inheritance , showing again you have no idea that there is difference between these two . You probably didn't even to bother read what I said or simply push your own agenda and are blind willfully. Read again

1 Corinthians 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1) Believer can't burn he is saved
2) His works if build upon wrong foundation will burn

But you must willfully reject it because of your others non-bliblical views like rapture , Jewish citizenship and millenial rain , so you need to push the agenda that inheritance and salvation are the same thing to make the other work or else they simply fall apart .

1 Timothy 4:1 King James Version (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[BABerean2]

I didn't say we are saved according to our works but the inheritance , showing again you have no idea that there is difference between these two .

The inheritance is eternal life in the kingdom of God, with Jesus Christ.

What more could anyone possibly want, or need?

You are either saved or you are not.

As far as my other viewpoints, I have no idea what you are talking about , since I am not a pretribber, or premill, and do not believe in the Two Peoples of God doctrine, all of which are "non-biblical".
.

 

[Chinchilla]

The inheritance is eternal life in the kingdom of God, with Jesus Christ.

How is it eternal if it can be burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:15 ? It is eternal because you say so or because it's written somewhere ?

Again you think the inheritance is about being saved or not , it's not.
But you obviously have to deny it to push the other doctrines.

There is inheritance of eternal life , yes it's free gift .
But there is also gold , precious stones , different garmets you will wear , crowns and different light which you will reflect , you have to deny that too and multiple verses talking about it I assume .

It clearly says in Matthew 11:11

from this vers you can for sure say that :
1) There is John the Baptist in Kingdom of Heaven
2) There is at least one more person
3) The other person is higher than John the Baptist means there is hierarchy in heaven and different rewards other than salvation

 

[Douggg]

So, although their return was not a fulfillment of any prophecy, it was a requirement for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

I think a better way of putting it is that 1948 is the fulfillment some of the end times prophecies, especially concerning Isaiah 66:8, 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

But it is not the complete fulfillment of prophecies regarding Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

crowns

Is the focus below on crowns, or is it on eternal life?

If you received a crown, what are you going to do with it when you see Christ?


Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

.

 

[Chinchilla]

Is the focus below on crowns, or is it on eternal life?

If you received a crown, what are you going to do with it when you see Christ?


Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

.

Again easy to refute , if crowns were eternal life then Jesus would be contradicting with Paul so you deny most part of the NT if you accept such statement . Moreover if that was true Jesus would contradict not only Paul but himself .

Revelation 3:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
John 10:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.



Again you push on something which is not Scriptural , saying that Jesus contradict himself assuming the crowns are eternal life . It just shows that most of what you wrote is not coherent with whole Bible but simply taken out parts of it to make your doctrine fit . Kinda strange to have this comment "We should conform our viewpoint to God's Word, instead of conforming God's Word to our viewpoint.

All false systems of interpretation are exposed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but by the scripture they must ignore to make it work."

But willfully rejecting something which is such obvious as difference between Inheritance and Salvation which is not coherent with many Scriptures .

 

[BABerean2]

But willfully rejecting something which is such obvious as difference between Inheritance and Salvation which is not coherent with many Scriptures .

Well then, how many crowns have you amassed at this point in time?

I am sure that you have me beat in that regard.

Your room in New Jerusalem will be no doubt much nicer than mine.
Maybe you will give me a tour sometime...

.