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Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by random person, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    In short there are different uses of the term tribulation so they are not mutually exclusive. That would be an extreme position for you to take.
     
  2. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    No. This is simply wrong and shows you don't do word study. The only thing to indicate such is when Jesus said in Matthew 24:21 "there shall be *great* tribulation.

    The great tribulation occurred when Rome surrounded Jerusalem. That is why Jesus used the term "great tribulation". Jerusalem was effectively cut off, which began to starve the city. Within Jerusalem was much infighting. These are document facts particularly by Josephus, who was an eyewitness.

    Now, Jesus told the disciples at Matthew 24:9:
    9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
    10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.


    This is what John had encountered, and what he refers to in Revelation 1:9:
    9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

    John was banished to Patmos because he is one of the Lord's apostles. The tribulation of Christians was already happening. If you want to think John is writing Revelation in 95 AD, and doesn't mention the destruction of the temple, when he was right there when Jesus prophesied these things, go right ahead.

    I have studied this and I have also debated it with others in this forum who believe as you do, that Revelation was written in 95 AD.

    It's highly possible at the time John wrote this that Peter and Paul have both been martyred.

    Paul speaks of his death in 2 Timothy 2:6-8:
    6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
    7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;
    8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.


    Peter spoke of his own death in 2 Peter 1:13-15:
    13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder,
    14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
    15 And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.


    The tribulation of Matthew 24:9 was in full swing...the great tribulation that would happen to Jerusalem in 70 AD, had not yet occurred!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  3. JM

    JM Absolute Predestinarian Supporter

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    Nope. Next question. :preach:
     
  4. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    The day for the man of sin to be openly revealed had not yet come. But Paul said that he had already been seated in the temple. That means that the open revelation of the man of sin had to occur in THEIR lifetime. It's that simple. It doesn't have anything to do with you and me whatsoever.
     
  5. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Paul said "ho theos." That express term was reserved for God alone. Furthermore, Paul said that Christ is in the image of ho theos. Therefore, ho theos CANNOT be satan.

    God Himself blinds the minds of men (John 12:37-40).
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Could you please provide (copy and paste) the verse that Paul stated that the man of son had already been seated in the temple?
     
  7. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    The Bible says Satan is the ruler of this world today. You say he is not. So you are helping him. In the millennial kingdom, 10,000 children will not die every day as they do now from starvation. Hitler is not in the millennial kingdom. You have on conscience to perceive this. Nuclear bombs, hundreds of them this past century, will not happen in the millennial kingdom. 34 reasons were given why Revelation had to have been written after 70 AD. You challenged none of them. 'Tribulation' is a term used in different senses in different passages. They don't always refer to the same tribulation.
     
  8. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    The ruler of this world today is Satan the Bible says. He is said to be the god of this world and prince of the air. How can you be the ruler or prince of the air today if you are in the pit? So obviously, Satan is not in the pit. I am glad the 10,000 children that die every day due to starvation will not occur in the millennial kingdom, and the hundreds of nuclear bombs that have gone off on the planet the past century will not occur in the millennial kingdom. Indeed, the nations are still deceived with wars and rumors of wars (Rev. 20.3). You don't have a conscience to appreciate this.
     
  9. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    Theos is not reserved for God alone. Those who claim to be God make themselves out to be theos also. This term is to show the likeness that the Antichrist tries to make himself look like God only to deceive the world. The first theos is in contrast to the second theos. God binds you from understanding this because your conscience is not clear before Him.

    "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the 3rd temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thess. 2.4).
     
  10. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    In 2 Thessalonians 1:4-6, who is being troubled and whom God promises to recompense them that trouble them?

    1st century Thessalonian Christians and their persecutors?

    Or Christians worldwide in 2014 and their persecutors?

    So, Jesus is not going to recompense those who troubled the Christians in Thessalonica until 2,000 or more years after the fact?

    Audience relevance!
     
  11. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Ho theos is reserved for God alone. Paul didn't just say theos. He said ho theos.

    The man of sin sits as God, but is not God. Paul said that there are no other gods. Satan is NOT mentioned by name in 2 Corinthians 4:4. It is pure assumption on your part.

    Your theology implies polytheism.
     
  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Well...you have to think a little bit about that. Satan rules over those who reject Christ.

    Now try and realize "greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world"!
     
  13. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    The Bible uses the term gods not to suggest polytheism but people worship these things as idols. And Antichrist erects himself making himself out to be God. God the Father is not the god of this world, for the Father is God not a god. Whereas Satan is the god of this world (emphasizing power), the ruler of this world and prince of the air. Why do you reject what the Bible says that he is the ruler of this world and prince of the air and god of this world? Is it because you follow him? Since Satan is not in the pit, he can be these things. Not till Jesus returns to lock him in the pit will he no longer be the god of this world, ruler of this world and prince of the air. If you are in the pit you're not in the air.
     
  14. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    Satan is not in the pit though, for he is still the god of this world, ruler of this world and prince of the air. When Jesus returns He will return to reign over the nations with a rod of iron. He is not doing so now today, but He is reigning at the right hand of the Father in 3rd heaven.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    What scriptural teaching on antichrist says this?

    Here are the ONLY 4 verses in the entire Bible that mention antichrist:

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

    1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Nothing there at all about antichrist "erecting himself to make himself out to be God".

    Lots about how it was "the last Hour" 2000 years ago though.....
     
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Try reading what Jesus said to the Pharisees in Matthew 12:22-30. See if you can discern what Jesus was saying there.

    Then compare John 12:30-34 with Revelation 12:7-17.
     
  17. crosssaved

    crosssaved Regular Member

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    [2Th 2:1-4 KJV] 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
     
  18. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    OK, but this passage is about The Man of Sin, not about Antichrist.

    Not one passage of scripture teaches they are the same entity.

    Where is the scripture that says antichrist does these things?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  19. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Once Christ had come and was fully defined and proclaimed, it was easy to say who or what was the antithesis of that in the 1st century.
     
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Doesn't Revelation show the Lamb standing on Mount Zion?
    Is that symbolic or literal?


    Joel 2:32
    And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved;
    for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance,
    as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.[fn]

    Revelation 14:1
    Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.


    Zechariah 14:14
    His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east;
    and the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west, making a very great valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    Luke 22:39
    Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him.

     
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