Is Eschatology based on the Book of Enoch like a "Flat Earth"?

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SeventyOne

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In other words you have nothing of substance...only hot air.
Its like you were saying ''i have an invisible elfe in my backyard ..prove me wrong''

Don't flatter yourself. No, it means the whole point of me bringing you anything would be only to feed further ridicule. I'd happily help someone actually seeking knowledge. However, you can go get your own material.
 
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Foxfyre

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No they don't and that's why most of first FE were the engineers .

Yes, the towers of a bridge are farther apart at the top than they are at the bottom, so says a structural engineer in my family who builds them. Likewise on a long fence or a line of telephone poles, measuring the entire distance of them at the top will be longer than will measuring the entire distance of them at the bottom.
 
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Riberra

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I'd happily help someone actually seeking knowledge.
But I am seeking knowledge.That is why I asked you to provide the measurements that you say some engineers have done .Until now you ridiculise yourself by refusing to present these measurements for ALL to see.There are lot of other people who are seeking knowledge ...not just me...and you seem to have no shame to hide capital information.
 
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BABerean2

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Nobody dig deeper than 8 mile or something , we have no clue from science what is inside , but from Bible we know there is Scheol and prison for angels

If we have no clue what is inside, then how do you explain a compass pointing to the North and South poles of the earth?

.
 
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Ken Rank

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The book Revelation says the devil deceives the whole world, yet you are flabbergasted at the idea of a global deception. The irony
The great lie has nothing to do with the SHAPE of the planet... it has to do with a false gospel and false instructions, a false law. Why would you place so much weight on the PLANET and not on the creator and not His will for man?
 
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Oldmantook

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There are bridges that are as much as 100 miles long over ocean distances. I am pretty sure the engineers have to allow for the curvature of the earth. But they have done the measurements and support towers on a long bridge across sea level will be in the range of up to 1-3/4 inches further apart at the top than they are at the bottom even though they are all perpendicular to the ground.
Are you "pretty sure" or "certain." If only pretty sure, I suggest you do some due diligence on your own and show me your evidence.
 
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Oldmantook

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It is not a logical fallacy but a specific fallacy to say that I suggested in any way that Isaiah is exclusively a book of prophecy. I did not bother to say everything contained in Isaiah because it would have been irrelevant to the point I was making. The Old and New Testament writers did not explain or elaborate on a lot of things they wrote about no doubt because at the time it was not necessary or relevant (to them) to do so. It certainly never occurred to them that you and I would be trying to make sense of it in the 21st Century. Which is why I keep teaching that to understand the Bible, you generally have to read it through the eyes of those who wrote it instead of through our own experience and culture.

And I would not use a specific passage plucked from context as proof of anything other than proof that the phrase exists. I have never EVER argued that miracles and wonders do not happen or that God cannot break His own laws of nature and physics at will should He choose to do so.

And none of that is any argument for or against anything Enoch wrote or how the Earth is shaped.
You certainly stated that Isaiah is a book of prophecy in order to support your view that the words of Isaiah are not to taken literally. Seems to me you are back-peddling. Furthermore, you neglected to explain away how the shadow of the sun could reverse itself on Ahaz' stairway via the heliocentric model.
 
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Jipsah

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The problem with your claim is that in addition to refraction, one needs to account for the matter of perspective. An object "vanishes" from the bottom up as it recedes farther away from our line of sight.
Which is precisely what happens when it drops below the horizon. If it remained in the same plane, as flat earthers would have it, it would simply appear smaller as distance increased. Thanks for making my point for me.

Problem is the authors of Scripture were inspired by the Spirit so your claim that they wrote from "a purely earth-bound perspective is invalid to say the least.
God knew better, His scribe did not. God didn't bother to explain it to His scribe, probably because it wasn't relevant to the subject at hand. "Oh, and by the way, the earth is spherical and orbits the sun, which itself orbits a galactic barycenter, and it's all interconnected by the gravitational fields of the various bodies, and we now return you to the original prophecy." Right.

Very simpe answer as it appears you haven't investigated the flat earth model.
Purely Rube Goldberg, end to end.

The sun is indeed visible from somewhere on the earth at all times. But on the flat earth, the sun is smaller as it circles the earth and is placed IN THE FIRMAMENT (Gen 1:17) and is therefore closer to the earth then the fairy tale distance promulgated by the heliocentric model.
That's nice. OK, it's dark in Nashville now, but high noon in Korea (I know, I just got off Kakao Talk with my niece in Seoul) but since it's only dark here because the sun is farther away, I should be able to see it with my 15 inch reflector telescope. After all, I can see Saturn and its rings, and the moons of Jupiter, and various far distant and fairly dim stuff, so the sun ought to be a piece of cake to see if it's only a few thousand miles from high noon here. Is this "perspective" again, or 'refraction", or the procession of the equinoxes, or Ohm's Law, or what? Seoul has to be more or less on a plane with Nashville, and it's nor too far north of here, what keeps me from seeing sun the if I can get Old Dobby aimed at it?
 
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Jipsah

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Your response fails to even address my claim. To account for the earth's supposed curvature, the construction of a bridge of significant length needs to account for the earth's curvature in order to maintain a flat level roadway.
No. A roadway goes where it's built to go. You can build it straight up and down if you like, and I;vee driven some where the engineers appeared to have had that in mind. You go up and down hills and around obstacles, because you're following the terrain, not the overall curvature of the earth. (Seems like that should be intuitively obvious, but whatever.) In a bridge, your supports have to be true vertical so that they're carrying compression loads (they taught us that in engineering school even though I didn't want to be a CE), so they're vertical at the point where they're anchored, and thus not parallel to each other. But if you've seen a long bridge, you probably noticed that the roadway goes up on approach, then runs more of less level from one support to the next, and then down at the other end. Why? Because the roadway is running on the supports, not on the bottom of whatever it is that's being traversed. The road can go up, down, right, left, or in curlicues if the engineer so desires The curve of the earth doesn't enter into it.

The ocean's or lake's floor drops in depth on a curved earth
Uh, no. The curvature of the earth has nothing at all to do with the depth of any body of water.

, therefore the pillars built on the ocean/lake floor which support a bridge have to built in increasingly longer lengths in over to account for the earth's curvature.
That would be true of you were trying to build a bridge that ran tangential to the earth's surface and out into space. That may be a better way to loft spacecraft, but so far no one has tried it. <ROFL>

Ask any surveyor or civil engineer.
And get asked if I got my PE ticket at JC Penny's? No thanks.

That doesn't happen.
First time we've been in agreement. <Laugh>

Try again.
So is the flat earth really sitting on a large turtle?
 
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Jipsah

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To account for the earth's supposed curvature, the construction of a bridge of significant length needs to account for the earth's curvature in order to maintain a flat level roadway.
Thre ain't no such thing as a flat roadway. Even in Kansas.
 
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Jipsah

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Why would Isaiah need the "benefit of science" when he had the benefit of God who inspired him to write about our world from the perspective of the one who created it in the first place? The title of the old TV series tells it like it is: "Father Knows Best."
Apparently God didn't tell Isaiah how the universe worked, so he described it as it looked to him.
 
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Jipsah

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Nope. Is it a requirement for every individual to be able to calculate the rotation speed of the earth
Nah, just Google it. How fast do y;all say your small sun is moving?
 
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Jipsah

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There are many who are engineers and the like who have made such measurements. Feel free to put some effort into it and check it all out as you see fit. Again, deprogramming would need to come at an individuals own pace, assuming they have the guts to do so.
Wouldn't "I don't know" have been easier to type?
 
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Jipsah

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No they don't as that minuscule deviation certainly does not account for the earth's curvature. For every mile squared, multiplied by 8, divided by 12 is the equation for calculating the drop of curvature based on the circumference of the globe earth. Thus a 3 mile bridge has to account for a curvature of of 6 feet. A 6 mile bridge has to account for a drop in curvature of 24 feet, etc. We're talking feet; not mere inches.
That is true if you want your bridge to stick out over the water like a fishing rod. <ROFL>
 
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Jipsah

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Which of the lighters could you not see the bottom of? Dude just demonstrated beautifully why perspective does not explain why you lose view of the ships hull. If it remained in the same plane, you'd continue to see everything above the water, with it all simply appearing smaller, just as with the lighters.
 
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Foxfyre

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Are you "pretty sure" or "certain." If only pretty sure, I suggest you do some due diligence on your own and show me your evidence.

Well I haven't done the measurements of course, but I believe those who know the truth of it. Probably the only way you will be convinced is to do the measurements yourself since you reject all the scientific evidence pointing to a spherical Earth.

But there is an explanation here:
http://mathscinotes.com/2017/01/effect-of-earths-curvature-on-suspension-bridge-dimensions/
 
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Foxfyre

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You certainly stated that Isaiah is a book of prophecy in order to support your view that the words of Isaiah are not to taken literally. Seems to me you are back-peddling. Furthermore, you neglected to explain away how the shadow of the sun could reverse itself on Ahaz' stairway via the heliocentric model.

I suggest you go back and read my post in its full context.
 
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Oldmantook

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Which is precisely what happens when it drops below the horizon. If it remained in the same plane, as flat earthers would have it, it would simply appear smaller as distance increased. Thanks for making my point for me.
Thanks for making my point. It's smaller not because it goes over the horizon of the curved earth. It's simply smaller because at the point of the flat horizon, the vanishing point causes the bottom of the hull to disappear first - not because of curvature. I suggest you study angles and perspective.

od knew better, His scribe did not. God didn't bother to explain it to His scribe, probably because it wasn't relevant to the subject at hand. "Oh, and by the way, the earth is spherical and orbits the sun, which itself orbits a galactic barycenter, and it's all interconnected by the gravitational fields of the various bodies, and we now return you to the original prophecy." Right.
So since God who is omniscient was aware that some scribe was responsible for writing down the Word of God, God neglected or didn't bother to make it clear to the scribe just exactly what he wanted recorded in Scripturw? I must admit you have a quite an imagination!

urely Rube Goldberg, end to end.
You choice isn't it?

That's nice. OK, it's dark in Nashville now, but high noon in Korea (I know, I just got off Kakao Talk with my niece in Seoul) but since it's only dark here because the sun is farther away, I should be able to see it with my 15 inch reflector telescope. After all, I can see Saturn and its rings, and the moons of Jupiter, and various far distant and fairly dim stuff, so the sun ought to be a piece of cake to see if it's only a few thousand miles from high noon here. Is this "perspective" again, or 'refraction", or the procession of the equinoxes, or Ohm's Law, or what? Seoul has to be more or less on a plane with Nashville, and it's nor too far north of here, what keeps me from seeing sun the if I can get Old Dobby aimed at it?
No. Again because of atmospheric density, angle and perspective you can't see the sun at such far distances. You have made an apriori assumption that the planets are further away in the "solar system." The Bible states that the stars, sun and moon were placed in the firmament - not in some fairy tale outer space. Perhaps this video will make things clearer to you.
 
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