Masturbation as a Sin (A Different Approach)

[grasping the after wind]

Definition of lust (merriam-webster)
noun
1 obsolete
a : pleasure, delight
b : personal inclination : wish
2: usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness

• He was motivated more bylust than by love.

3a : an intense longing : craving

• a lust to succeed

b : enthusiasm, eagerness

• admired his lust for life

I would assume we are discussing lust as defined in 2. unbridled sexual desire

 

[Dave-W]

What's the difference between "spousal love" and "lust" in your view?

There is where we again run afoul of the difference between English and true biblical Greek/Hebrew.

We cannot/MUST not use english definitions (which can vary all over the place) when we can use the definitions of the original biblical words themselves.

 

[Tetra]

I thought I laid that out( no pun intended) earlier. If one is mainly considering one's own pleasure that is lust and if one is concentrating on one's spouse's pleasure that is love. Both partners will wish to also be pleasured but they ought not be motivated mainly by their own pleasure as that puts the spouse in the position of being a means to an end rather than the loved one whose welfare is of great importance.

I'm sorry, but I haven't gleaned that definition of lust from the Bible. Do you have Scripture? However, I would agree that solely being focused on oneself is an issue, I would more place that into being an issue of selfishness, not lust.

 

[Tetra]

There is where we again run afoul of the difference between English and true biblical Greek/Hebrew.

We cannot/MUST not use english definitions (which can vary all over the place) when we can use the definitions of the original biblical words themselves.

I'd be comfortable with a Biblical definition of either.

 

[Valetic]

How do you define the difference??

I must have thought it meant more than just sex in the bible..

 

[grasping the after wind]

I await the input on Song of Solomon 5.2-5.

She was pleasuring herself and is called "undefiled."

Seems she was also into incest and undefiled. Go figure. I'm not inclined to use Song of Solomon as a moral compass for my own behavior.

 

[Dave-W]

I'm sorry, but I haven't gleaned that definition of lust from the Bible. Do you have Scripture?

In Matt 5.28 the word translated lust is epithumeo. It is the same word used in the Septuagint for the 10th commandment in Ex 20: Thou shalt not Covet ...
Epithumeo is also used by Paul when he refers to coveting.

Interestingly, the word in 2 forms (noun and verb) is used in this verse:

Luke 22:15 KJV
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:​

Or, if we keep the Matt 5 translation: ... with lust I have lusted to eat ...

So epithumeo means simply any STRONG desire. Good or bad.

 

[Tetra]

In Matt 5.28 the word translated lust is epithumeo. It is the same word used in the Septuagint for the 10th commandment in Ex 20: Thou shalt not Covet ...
Epithumeo is also used by Paul when he refers to coveting.

Interestingly, the word in 2 forms (noun and verb) is used in this verse:

Luke 22:15 KJV
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:​

Or, if we keep the Matt 5 translation: ... with lust I have lusted to eat ...

So epithumeo means simply any STRONG desire. Good or bad.

We are in agreement.

Notice though, Christians today seem to be using it as to mean, sexual arousal... I wonder why?

 

[Dave-W]

Seems she was also into incest and undefiled. Go figure.

Where?

I'm not inclined to use Song of Solomon as a moral compass for my own behavior.

Why not?? Why do you think God included it in the canon?

 

[Dave-W]

Christians today seem to be using it as to mean, sexual arousal... I wonder why?

That is how the church has portrayed it for the last few centuries.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

This guy...

 

[Tetra]

I'm not inclined to use Song of Solomon as a moral compass for my own behavior.

Say what you want man, but I'd never be comfortable saying that. Holy jeepers, you're talking about the Bible!

 

[TuxAme]

Did you read the thread? How can masturbation ALWAYS be sinful if you can touch within marriage??

If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.

 

[Tetra]

That is how the church has portrayed it for the last few centuries.

I know, it was more rhetorical. There is an underlying position I believe the church wanted to push at the time, but we'd be going a bit off topic.

 

[dqhall]

Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.

I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.

What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)

What do you think CF, what is your opinion?

Cheers,
Tetra

Masturbation is a useless waste of time. Having sexual fantasies without intending to act on them is too close to temptation. Part of the Lord's Prayer is, "...lead us not into temptation" Matthew 6:13.

Procreation is for bringing a child into the world. People got distracted into physical pleasure, lust, porn and lewdness. Some wanted the pleasure of being bad in adultery, homosexuality and fornication. The quest for greater pleasure led some to stray away from caring for their spouses and children creating more trouble.

 

[Tetra]

If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.

So thought's I have while married are outside of marriage?? What in the world.

 

[Dave-W]

If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.

Are you? What defines marriage?

 

[Dave-W]

Marriage: a covenant.

One flesh - i.e. your body and your spouse's body are theologically the same body. So does it really matter if you touch this part of that marriage body or that other part of the marriage body?

And consider this verse in the sexual context:

Ephesians 5:28
So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,​

 

[AlexDTX]

Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.

I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.

What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)

What do you think CF, what is your opinion?

Cheers,
Tetra

What would Jesus do? Did he touch?

 

[Tetra]

What would Jesus do? Did he touch?

No idea. As far as I know He didn't even have sex.