Masturbation as a Sin (A Different Approach)

[Tetra]

Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.

I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.

What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch with your spouse?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)

What do you think CF, what is your opinion?

Cheers,
Tetra

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography)

In the order listed:
1. no
2. no
3. Not sure. I don't have an answer there.
4. I would say no, because its exclusively the two of you.

 

[2tim_215]

Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.

I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.

What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography)

What do you think CF, what is your opinion?

Cheers,
Tetra

The problem with masturbation is that it is result of lust, which is a sin although not unpardonable. For some reason we feel that sin is a necessity, but Jesus never gave way to it as a number of others mentioned in the Bible. Like any other vice or addiction, we need to pray to the Lord to help us deal with it, and He will if we do it with a sincere heart.

 

[Dave-W]

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?

• No

• To mutually touch?

  No

• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?

  No

• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography)

  No

 

[Dave-W]

The problem with masturbation is that it is result of lust,

If your desires are to and for your spouse, that can no way be considered sinful "lust."

 

[Tetra]

In the order listed:
1. no
2. no
3. Not sure. I don't have an answer there.
4. I would say no, because its exclusively the two of you.

I would agree with you. However, when people state "masturbation is a sin", or as in my 4th point "pornography is a sin" (since making a video with your spouse is technically porn) they're holding this position dogmatically. To me, there is nuance to this topic that I think needs to be explored.

 

[Tetra]

The problem with masturbation is that it is result of lust.

Is it ALWAYS a result of lust? Would it be immoral to therefore "lust" after your spouse?

 

[Tetra]

If your desires are to and for your spouse, that can no way be considered sinful "lust."

Agree.

 

[Dave-W]

tetra - I would like to hear your take on Song of Solomon 5.2-5.

Are you familiar with the ancient near east euphemisms used in erotic poetry?

 

[Dave-W]

in my 4th point "pornography is a sin" (since making a video with your spouse is technically porn) they're holding this position dogmatically.

And I have always heard: "What if someone else sees it???"

 

[Tetra]

tetra - I would like to hear your take on Song of Solomon 5.2-5.

Are you familiar with the ancient near east euphemisms used in erotic poetry?

I have always (tried to, I certainly have failings) read the Bible in it's entirely, however, I have always had a very strong passion for studying Christendom and sex. Unfortunately, I'm not good at understanding metaphor and poetry. If you could shed some light, I'm all ears Dave!!

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

I have always (tried to, I certainly have failings) read the Bible in it's entirely, however, I have always have a very strong passion for studying Christendom and sex. Unfortunately, I'm not good at understanding metaphor and poetry. If you could shed some light, I'm all ears Dave!!

Yes, do tell. I am interested.

 

[Tetra]

And I have always heard: "What if someone else sees it???"

Well, I think that would be the sin of the third person, not the participants. If we think like that though, I wouldn't even go the the bathroom in a public area... or a change room... or even get undressed... etc.

My point here is that thinking like that is illogical (which I'd assume you think as well).

 

[Dave-W]

I have always (tried to, I certainly have failings) read the Bible in it's entirely, however, I have always have a very strong passion for studying Christendom and sex. Unfortunately, I'm not good at understanding metaphor and poetry. If you could shed some light, I'm all ears Dave!!

OK, here goes; the nickel's worth glossary:

Garden = genitals of either gender
flowers, lillies = female genitals
myrrh = wetness from female arousal​

There are more but those are sufficient for that passage. BTW, In my opinion the dream/fantasy in verse 2 was her remembering this:

Song of Solomon 2:6 NASB
“Let his left hand be under my head And his right hand embrace me.”​

The Net Bible more accurately translates that last phrase:

... his right hand stimulates me.
​

BTW - many translations add "of the door" in verse 4 as in "hole of the door." Door never appears at all in the original text. IMO it was added to obfuscate the clear sexual imagery.

 

[Tree of Life]

I would agree with you. However, when people state "masturbation is a sin", or as in my 4th point "pornography is a sin" (since making a video with your spouse is technically porn) they're holding this position dogmatically. To me, there is nuance to this topic that I think needs to be explored.

Pornography literally means sexual immorality. It would be begging the question to assume that making a video of you and your spouse engaging in a sex act is porn.

 

[Valetic]

To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography)

This is the only thing I can really touch base with. Pornography literally means evil sex pictures. Porno comes from pornaeia which means the evil sex and graphe means picture so put the 2 together that's how we got it. So by your definition of sinlessness its not actually porn but something else that maybe you can put a word on? If it's not evil sex then what kind of sex picture is it?

 

[Dave-W]

Pornography literally means sexual immorality.

Not so.

Porn- from pornas - a class of female sex slaves in Greek culture
-graphy from graphos meaning writing or drawing. (graphics)

Put it together; you have the writings or drawings of prostitutes.

 

[Tetra]

OK, here goes; the nickel's worth glossary:

Garden = genitals of either gender
flowers, lillies = female genitals
myrrh = wetness from female arousal​

There are more but those are sufficient for that passage. BTW, In my opinion the dream/fantasy was remembering this:

Song of Solomon 2:6 NASB
“Let his left hand be under my head And his right hand embrace me.”​

The Net Bible more accurately translates that last phrase:

... his right hand stimulates me.​

Can I ask you a question, I tend to get confused as to who (or who's) is being referenced throughout Song of Solomon. I keep getting mixed up if it is fact singular or plural. While I'm sure most conservative Christians would argue for it being in the singular, do you know more on this? For example "daughters of Jerusalem".

 

[Dave-W]

If it's not evil sex then what kind of sex picture is it?

It is called "the marriage bed."

 

[Tetra]

Pornography literally means sexual immorality. It would be begging the question to assume that making a video of you and your spouse engaging in a sex act is porn.

What do you mean by "literally means"?

Current definition:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pornography

A video of myself and spouse technically meets the current definition, no?