The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

[LittleLambofJesus]

How much of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation view as fulfilled? Try to keep it as simple as possible.

Also, I have had only 2 votes and 1 member responding on this thread I create and thought I would get more input on it. Thanks

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/matt-24-14-luke-21-26-same-event-as-reve-3-10.8074686/
Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26 same event as Reve 3:10?

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
Strong's Number G3625 matches the Greek οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē), which occurs 15 times in 15 verses

It is used in 2 verses of the Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24 and Luke 21 thus tying in Matt and Luke to Revelation:

Matthew 24:14
“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625> as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

Luke 21:26 [Revelation 3:10]
“men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming upon the earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625>,
for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

3 times in Revelation:

Revelation 3:10 [Luke 21:26]
‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you out of the hour of that trial which is about to be coming upon the whole earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625>,
to try those who dwell on the land.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

How much of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation view as fulfilled? Try to keep it as simple as possible.

Also, I have had only 2 votes and 1 member responding on this thread I create and thought I would get more input on it. Thanks

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/matt-24-14-luke-21-26-same-event-as-reve-3-10.8074686/
Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26 same event as Reve 3:10?

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
Strong's Number G3625 matches the Greek οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē), which occurs 15 times in 15 verses

It is used in 2 verses of the Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24 and Luke 21 thus tying in Matt and Luke to Revelation:

Matthew 24:14
“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625> as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

Luke 21:26 [Revelation 3:10]
“men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming upon the earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625>,
for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

3 times in Revelation:

Revelation 3:10 [Luke 21:26]
‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you out of the hour of that trial which is about to be coming upon the whole earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625>,
to try those who dwell on the land.

As per your other thread. Same region . The Roman empire but different events. The great judgement against the city of Rome for its persecution of the saints is not the same event as the destruction of Jerusalem. Nor are the judgments that end the Roman Empire in 1453 AD the same as the previous judgments. There are two great end time events prophesied in the Old and New Testaments. One is the destruction of Jerusalem. The other is end times of the age of the four gentile empires 1453 AD. The good news is the age of promise that was to follow that we are now in.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As per your other thread. Same region . The Roman empire but different events. The great judgement against the city of Rome for its persecution of the saints is not the same event as the destruction of Jerusalem. Nor are the judgments that end the Roman Empire in 1453 AD the same as the previous judgments. There are two great end time events prophesied in the Old and New Testaments. One is the destruction of Jerusalem. The other is end times of the age of the four gentile empires 1453 AD. The good news is the age of promise that was to follow that we are now in.

I disagree.
Is that the view of all Partial Preterists...... I would like to hear from others.......

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I disagree.
Is that the view of all Partial Preterists...... I would like to hear from others.......

Do all partial pretersists believe that? Are you kidding me?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As per your other thread. Same region . The Roman empire but different events. The great judgement against the city of Rome for its persecution of the saints is not the same event as the destruction of Jerusalem. Nor are the judgments that end the Roman Empire in 1453 AD the same as the previous judgments. There are two great end time events prophesied in the Old and New Testaments. One is the destruction of Jerusalem. The other is end times of the age of the four gentile empires 1453 AD. The good news is the age of promise that was to follow that we are now in.

I disagree.
Is that the view of all Partial Preterists...... I would like to hear from others.......

Do all partial pretersists believe that? Are you kidding me?

So what do all Partial Preterists agree on?

 

[Anto9us]

I just think a bunch of prophecy was fulfilled 70 AD
but There will be a future return of Christ physically to earth

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I just think a bunch of prophecy was fulfilled 70 AD
but There will be a future return of Christ physically to earth

I suppose.........I know it won't be in my lifetime, I just feel blessed He came into my life..

Every generation that reads this scripture will think the time is nigh......Perhaps I should put all of these verses in my siggy ehehe........

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things/pantwn <3956> yet the End Has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448>;
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

James 5:8
be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448>;

Romans 13:
11
And this knowing the time, that hour it-is already out of sleep to be roused, for now nearer/egguteron <1452> of us the Salvation than when we believed.
12
The Night progresses, the yet Day has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448>.
We should be putting off then the works of the Darkness, we should be putting on the implements of the Light.

Revelation 12:10
And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven "now became the Salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him,
that was cast the Accuser of the brothers of us, the accusing them in sight of the God of us day and night.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
for the Time is nigh/egguV <1451>.

Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
For the Time Is-nigh/egguV <1451>

 

[Hazelelponi]

I disagree.
Is that the view of all Partial Preterists...... I would like to hear from others.......

I believe in a 70 AD fulfillment and have no idea about anything in 1453..

Biblical prophecy as a whole always relates to God's people and/or how something/someone affects God's people.. the tie in is always God's people...

 

[faroukfarouk]

I believe in a 70 AD fulfillment and have no idea about anything in 1453..

Biblical prophecy as a whole always relates to God's people and/or how something/someone affects God's people.. the tie in is always God's people...

I think it's good to distinguish what pertains to Israel and what pertains to the church.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think it's good to distinguish what pertains to Israel and what pertains to the church.

We are Israel.

 

[faroukfarouk]

We are Israel.

Well, we would have a different viewpoint there, in terms of interpretation.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I believe in a 70 AD fulfillment and have no idea about anything in 1453..

Biblical prophecy as a whole always relates to God's people and/or how something/someone affects God's people.. the tie in is always God's people...

Real Christians are God’s people you know. The Bible has all kinds of prophecy about four empires that would rule over, oppress, make war against and overcome believers. Those empires are named in Bible prophecy. That same prophecy says until the fourth one ends believers would not see the circumstances arise where the earthly promises of God made to hundreds of generations of saints would begin to come to pass in the world.

The capitol of the Roman Empire was moved to Constantinople in 333AD. A Roman emperor sat on the throne until 1453AD when the empire was conquered and the last emperor killed.

What changed in the world at that point since true Christians everywhere were oppressed? Right then the first European printing press went online and within 50 years, for the first time in history the Bible got into the hands of the general public. (Illegally and in their own languages.) Then another first in human history outside of ancient Israel. A military campaign by the the kings and emperors of Southern Europe to wipe out the Bible possessing, Bible reading population of Northern Europe failed. The thinking that developed in a quite Bible literate Northern Europe gave us the free world. Gave true believers the opportunity that no generations ever had before. The opportunity to see and walk in all the earthly promises of God’s Word in nations that meet the conditions.

On top of this, also according to Bible prophecy as it has to be so for nations to be able to meet those necassary conditions. The nations of the world that are the most influenced by the invisible government of God. Those most influenced by the Gospel and the word. They have been the dominate nations in the world militarily and economically. They continue to defeat the forces of evil arrayed against them. This phenomena continues to grow and grow. A billion people have come to Christ in the last 50 years. Two billion more will in the next 30. The world is headed towards a place unimaginable in the heart of men. The whole earth wil be filled with his glory. It’s a train every Christian should be on but few are in heart and knowledge.
http://wordservice.org/Bible Prophecy/bp3000.htm

 

[Hazelelponi]

Well, we would have a different viewpoint there, in terms of interpretation.

And we are allowed of it.

But the Bible makes no distinction.. adopted sons are sons who are given their Fathers name and inheritance.

To distinguish continually what God did not is to forget/erase who we are, and that is God's people, Israel.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Real Christians are God’s people you know. The Bible has all kinds of prophecy about four empires that would rule over, oppress, make war against and overcome believers. Those empires are named in Bible prophecy. That same prophecy says until the fourth one ends believers would not see the circumstances arise where the earthly promises of God made to hundreds of generations of saints would begin to come to pass in the world.

The capitol of the Roman Empire was moved to Constantinople in 333AD. A Roman emperor sat on the throne until 1453AD when the empire was conquered and the last emperor killed.

What changed in the world at that point since true Christians everywhere were oppressed? Right then the first European printing press went online and within 50 years, for the first time in history the Bible got into the hands of the general public. (Illegally and in their own languages.) Then another first in human history outside of ancient Israel. A military campaign by the the kings and emperors of Southern Europe to wipe out the Bible possessing, Bible reading population of Northern Europe failed. The thinking that developed in a quite Bible literate Northern Europe gave us the free world. Gave true believers the opportunity that no generations ever had before. The opportunity to see and walk in all the earthly promises of God’s Word in nations that meet the conditions.

On top of this, also according to Bible prophecy as it has to be so for nations to be able to meet those necassary conditions. The nations of the world that are the most influenced by the invisible government of God. Those most influenced by the Gospel and the word. They have been the dominate nations in the world militarily and economically. They continue to defeat the forces of evil arrayed against them. This phenomena continues to grow and grow. A billion people have come to Christ in the last 50 years. Two billion more will in the next 30. The world is headed towards a place unimaginable in the heart of men. The whole earth wil be filled with his glory. It’s a train every Christian should be on but few are in heart and knowledge.
http://wordservice.org/Bible Prophecy/bp3000.htm
View attachment 235600

It sounds like the same dispensational talk.

 

[faroukfarouk]

And we are allowed of it.

But the Bible makes no distinction.. adopted sons are sons who are given their Fathers name and inheritance.

To distinguish continually what God did not is to forget/erase who we are, and that is God's people, Israel.

I don't see Israel being raptured in 1 Thess 4; and I don't see the church in view in Matthew 24. Reading those passages I find it hard to see that Israel and the church are the same, anyway.

(This is a discussion that has gone on among dispensationalists and others for a long time.)

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't see Israel being raptured in 1 Thess 4; and I don't see the church in view in Matthew 24. Reading those passages I find it hard to see that Israel and the church are the same, anyway.

(This is a discussion that has gone on among dispensationalists and others for a long time.)

I agree about the discussion being a long one.

I also believe Jesus never lied to us..

At any rate i dislike arguing for sake of it as it creates ill feelings, and I don't believe that's right.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

It sounds like the same dispensational talk.

Ephesians 1: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him,
Ephesians 2: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
There are dispensations or ages in the Bible you know. They just ain't what the dispensationalists say they are.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I think it's good to distinguish what pertains to Israel and what pertains to the church.

I just finished this and put it on my website and Facebook last night.

Ephesians1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


There are many dozens of chapters of prophecy that say the same as these below. These were chosen because they use the word gathering. Due to the prevalence of erroneous pop culture end time teachings and the way modern Israel is tied into them. Something needs to be said of many of these verses below that talk of gathering Israel or Judah a second time. The first gathering of ancient Israel was after Babylon conquered Judea and deported the few survivors. A surviving remnant were later allowed to return during the Medo \Persian Empire. The second gathering like the second covenant is the gathering of Jewish and Israeli believers to the messiah that began to occur during Jesus's earthly ministry. So, even though many of these prophecies say they will be gathered a second time to the physical land of Israel, the city and the physical temple. They are doing so illustratively as there are just as many other prophecies that say they will be gathered a second time to the New Jerusalem, the mountain of the Lord which illustrates the Kingdom of God. Or, gathered to the true house or temple of the Lord which is Gods people. The apostle also verifies this in Hebrews 11:18 For you are not come unto the mount that might be touched (Sinai which represents the 1st Covenant.)..... 22 But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect....The apostle also verifies this in the midst of many chapters on this subject in Romans by calling believing Jews of the first century a remnant, as do some of the prophecies about this second gathering. Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. How does modern Israel tie into all this? Well there is a prophecy about modern Israel right at the end of Romans 11 25. For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in........ 30 For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Let me paraphrase this according to Bible prophecy and how it played out. When the fullness of the gentiles are come in; meaning: When enough gentiles become believers. When the word of God gets into the hands of the general public which just began to happen 500 years ago. When that Word and the Gospel become so influential that nations begin to be founded upon Biblical principle. Then those nations under the influence of the invisible government of God will begin to show mercy to the Israeli people, give them grace just like God has shown grace to the gentiles. What better way to do this but by giving them their own land where they can defend themselves against the animosity of Satan? He is a grudge holder who always seeks to destroy them because the world found the grace of God through Israel. Further what better way to show mercy than becoming their friends in a hostile world? Finally, what better way to show them mercy than by bringing them the Gospel in power and grace, just as it has been brought to those already gathered by Christ?

Here is a list of prophecies about this great gathering of souls.
http://www.wordservice.org/Bible Prophecy/bp1009.htm

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ephesians 1: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him,
Ephesians 2: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
There are dispensations or ages in the Bible you know. They just ain't what the dispensationalists say they are.

There are two in the old testament - the age of the law and the messianic age.. but it'd still the same - the biggest distinction is the physical is fulfilled in the spiritual..

It's not the physical changed location to Rome... it's physical fullfilled...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What are partial preterist views on these 2 people?

https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/index.html

https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/k/kik-marcellus.html
J. Marcellus Kik
POSTMILLENNIALIST ; PRESBYTERIAN

https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/g/gentry-kenneth.html
Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry
Postmillennialist / Reconstructionist Partial Preterist
Would be classified "Historical Preterist" due to Olivet Discourse "transition text" at Matthew 24:36, but qualifies as "Modern Preterist" due to his view that the book of Revelation has been fulfilled up to chapter 19.