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The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by 1disciple, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I view Armegeddon as the end of spiritual warfare for God's people. This is not a physical battle...it goes back to Paul advising us to put on the full armor of God beginning at Ephesians 6:10.

    This battle goes on continuously and we are to be fully engaged with the full armor of God on...For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    I really like that passage put to music by Integrity Music:
     
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    I don't agree with that.
    Both Armageddon and Gog Magog are shown to be real battles as prophecied in the OT and NT [Olivet Discourse]

    Revelation 16:
    14 For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which are going-out upon the kings of the whole home-land<3625>, to-be-together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle of the great Day of the God the Almighty.
    16 And they together-leading/mobilize/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddon<717>

    Revelation 20:8
    and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive the nations, the ones in the Four Corners of the land, the Gog and Magog,
    to be together-leading/gathering/sunagagein <4863> them into the Battle, of which the Number of them as the Sand<285> of the Se<2281>a.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

    Is this a spiritual or physical event?

    Revelation 19:17 And I another Messenger having stood in the sun,
    and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!/sunagesqe <4863> into the great Supper of the GOD.
    18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings and fleshes of thousand-chiefs<5506> and fleshes of strong ones, and fleshes of horses and of the ones sitting on them and fleshes of all free ones<1658> besides also slaves<1401> and of small ones and of great ones<3173>
    ......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]
    ===========================
    "WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation
    Matt 24 Luke 17 70ad and Revelation [Eschatology 11-2-18]

    4430. ptoma from the alternate of 4098;
    a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.... occurs 5 times in 4 verses

    Matthew 24:28
    for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures be gathered together.

    4983 soma from 4982;
    the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave..................occurs 146 times in 122 verses

    Luke 17:37
    And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
    and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures be gathered together.'


    Revelation 18:
    8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
    death and sorrow and famine.
    And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
    that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.

    13“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.
     
  3. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I welcome your disagreement. Let me correct myself in what I said. I confused Armageddon with the battle of Gog and Magog, which is Revelation 20. Which I view as the end of spiritual warfare. There is no battle because Revelation 20:9 makes that clear.

    When it comes to Armageddon, that is the Judgement of Jerusalem. Revelation 16, 17, and 18 make that pretty clear.
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Ah. Thanks for clarifying that.............
    I wholeheartedly agree :oldthumbsup:
     
  5. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    This modern teaching on the feasts disturbs me. The fall feasts include atonement for sin. So many people don't think about that. Had a family member talk about she learned about the feasts at bible study. I told her the fall feasts not being fulfilled means Jesus has not made an atonement for sin yet. She just sat there stunned not recognizing the significance of it until I said it.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    I found that thread and am reading thru it now........fascinating study........

    Are the feast days fulfilled?

     
  7. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You'll come across some interesting links I posted in that thread. At points it got contentious.
     
  8. William Lefranc

    William Lefranc Member

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    What is your take on the meaning of the ten virgins?
     
  9. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    This From Parable of the 10 Virgins, Matthew 25, Future or AD 70? |

    I tend to agree with their points:


    First, the marriage of the bridegroom occurs after the city is destroyed. This follows the same pattern as that found in Revelation 18 and 19, when the harlot city, Mystery Babylon is destroyed.

    Secondly, the parable occurs within the lifetime of the same virgins who took the oil. It is not an event which begins with one generation of virgins and ends 20 centuries later with another group of virgins.

    Since it is not true that these virgins could have lived almost 2,000 years, it makes the point that “all these things” would take place before that generation passed away.

    This shows the unbroken link between Matthew 24 and Matthew 25.

    Thirdly, the idea of “shutting the door” marks the time of judgment. In keeping with the first century context, Luke shows to whom this language is addressed.

    Jesus’ ministry involved teaching in cities and villages in Palestine, mostly Galilee and in Jerusalem. When he arises to shut the door, as indicated in the parable, many stand outside and knock saying Lord, Lord open to us.

    He refuses, and they then begin to answer, ‘We ate and drank in your presence and you taught in our streets.’” (Luke 13:25, 27)

    There is only one generation of people who could ever claim to have eaten and drank in the presence of Christ. “And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, ‘This man receives sinners and eats with them,’” (Lk. 15:1)

    Speaking of those who murdered John, the Baptist, Jesus asked, “But to what shall I liken this generation?” (Matt. 11:16)

    He said, that same generation spoke of him, saying, “The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, “look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners! (Matt. 11:19)

    The point is that it is the same generation who charged him as a glutton and winebibber who ate with sinners and in whose streets he taught, that were shut out when they arose to enter at the time of the judgment/wedding.

    Therefore, the parable of the 10 virgins, Matthew 25, is but a continuation of Jesus’ discussion of the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24, all of which occurred before that 1st century generation passed.
     
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Good post parousia.
    Note also, just as the cry came at midnight in Matthew 25:6, that is also the time Yahweh came as the Destroyer during the Passover event in Exodus 12

    Parable of the Ten Virgins

    Exodus 11:4 And Moses is saying thus says Yahweh at mid/02676 chatsowth of the night, I going forth in midst<08432 tavek> of Egypt.
    Exodus 12:
    1
    And Yahweh is saying to Moses and to Aaron in land of Egypt to say of 2 "This month for ye beginning of months, first for ye, to months of the year.
    23 And Yahweh passes<5674 `abar> to strike the Egyptians and He sees the blood on the lintel and on two of the jambs and Yahweh passes-over<6452 pacach> the portal and not He shall allow the ruiner/destroyer<07843 shachath>/<1842 oleqreuonta> to come to houses of ye to strike.

    29 And is becoming mid<02677 chetsiy> of the night and Yahweh smote every of firstborn in land of Egypt, from firstborn of Pharaoh, the one sitting on his throne, unto firstborn of the captive which in house of cistern and every of firstborn of beast.

    Matthew 25:
    3
    Who any foolish getting the lamps of selves not they got with themselves oil
    4 The yet prudent ones got oil in the holders with the lamps of them. [Matt 13:48]
    5 Of tarrying yet the Bridegroom they nod all and are slept.
    6 Of middle yet of night a cry has occured "behold! the Bridegroom. Be ye coming out! into meeting of Him".
    7 Then were roused all the virgins those and they adorn/trim the lamps of-selves.
    8 The yet foolish ones to the prudent ones say "be ye giving us! out of the oil of ye, that the lamps of us are extinquishing".
    9 Answered yet the prudent ones "no lest not no should be sufficing to us and to ye. Be ye going! rather to the ones selling and buy ye! for selves".
    10 Of coming away yet of them to purchase, came the Bridegroom and the prepared ones entered with Him into the marriage-festivities, and is locked the door.
    11 Subsequently yet are coming also the rest of the virgins saying "Lord! Lord! open Thou! to us"
    12 The yet answering He said "Verily I am saying to ye not I have known ye"

    The Destroyer is also mentioned in Reve 9:11

    Revelation 9:11
    and they are having of them a king the Messenger of the Abyss, name to him to Hebrew abaddwn <3>, and in the Greecian name is having Destroyer

    And like in Matt 25:10, the way to the Sanctuary is closed.......fascinating!

    Revelation 15:8
    And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary of smoke out of the Glory of the God, and out of the power of Him.
    And no-one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven messengers. [Matthew 12:29]


     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  11. William Lefranc

    William Lefranc Member

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    Thank you for your response, but I was looking for some sort of insight on the meaning of the 10 virgins in a contextual form. In other words, what do the 10 virgins represent in the story that Jesus told His hearers about what the kingdom of God was like?

    Although I'm leaning towards the idea that the 10 virgins represented old covenant Israel, I'm open for other insights. The fact that five of them didn't have enough oil (insight into the kingdom of God mysteries?) is at least to me, is an indication that the nation of Israel was divided whether to believe or to reject Him as their promised Messiah.

    Fifty percent were ready while the other fifty percent were not. Half went one way, while the other half was on the right track. The fact that all 10 (ten is the number of completion) fell asleep indicates that the entire nation was expecting another kind of king in the likes of King David. An earthly, political and bloody king that would deal with the Romans, but not with the issues of the heart.

    To them, the sin-issue was "kind of a problem" because they had to offer sacrifices on a regular basis at the temple in order to cover them, but the greater problem was the Romans, that is, their physical enemies, not the greater problem that lay within. This is why all ten fell asleep.

    On the other hand, the coming of the bridegroom, to them (IMO), meant that the wedding feast would connect them forever with the Bridegroom, but not God's way, but their way. So, five of them (50%) were ready (kind of), while the other 50% were only ready for the coming disaster.

    So, Jesus was sending them a warning that the Bridegroom was coming at a time they were not expecting, but not to invite them to the wedding feast, but to shut the door forever because they had not been prepared for Him.

    The wedding feast (again, IMO), took place at Pentecost where the Lord lavishly poured His Holy Spirit to clothe His church with the garments of salvation. The doors then were shut 40 years later when the judgment of Israel as a people of God was finalized forever for having rejected and killed their own King while at the same time, persecuted God's people (New Israel) made out of faithful Jews (1Thes. 2:14-16).

    The doors were finally closed to the nation of Israel in AD 70 but would remain open to the Jews until the second coming which the curtains of this age will be closed forever to give room to the eternal age of holy righteousness.

    What do you think?

    JESUS PLUS NOTHING.jpg


     
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  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    The best approach to understanding is the context of what Jesus explaining. He's still speaking in the context of the "Olivet Discourse"...and Matthew 25 is just as much a part of it as Matthew 24. Peter, James, John, and Andrew are still listening.

    Would you agree with that?
     
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  13. William Lefranc

    William Lefranc Member

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    Yes, I think Mat. 23, 24 and 25 go hand in hand in a progressive way. When the Lord spoke what the kingdom of God was like in Mat. 25 (and other unrelated passages), He was exposing the fallacy of the Jews (including His disciples) that thought that the kingdom was an earthly domain that required an earthly king in the likes of David, Solomon, Josiah, etc.
     
  14. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    When it comes to the parable of the 10 virgins....the very key is that 5 were wise and 5 were foolish. The parable rides on what Jesus said at Matthew 24:45-51. The 5 wise are true believers...the 5 foolish are not.

    When the Lord said to the 5 foolish " ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’ ", the tense of that is that He never knew them at any time. We have many in the church that don't know Christ, but they think they do. Jesus previously spoke of such in the Sermon On The Mount, where he said at Matthew 7:22,23:

    22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
    23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’


    My view is that many make more of this parable than what's really being communicated. It simply means there are true and false believers in the church...and judgment day will make it clear.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    5 is also used in this covenantle parable in Luke 16 concerning "Judah"....

    Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?

    Luke 16:27 Saying yet "I am asking thee then father!, that thou should be sending him into the house of my father,
    28 for I am having five brothers which he may be testifying to them that no also they may be coming into the place this of the torment".
    29 Abraham is saying to him "they are having Moses and the Prophets let them hear them!".
    30 The yet he said: "not! father Abraham, but if ever any from dead-ones may be going forth toward them they shall be reforming.
    31 Saying yet to him "if Moses and the Prophets not they are hearing, neither if ever anyone out of dead-ones may be rising, they shall be being persuaded".

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

    Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

    The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
    Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
    He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

    While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!
     
  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    When you say that the ancient Jews and His disciples thought that the kingdom was going to be an "earthly domain" .....you don't mean that the "Kingdom of God = heaven" do you?

    That gets kind of difficult to parse out, because.....while their perception was that He was going to restore Israel just like human kings did (with a force of a military or politically).....I still believe His kingdom IS "on earth as it is in heaven". IOW.....it's a spiritual kingdom.....but we are still here on earth.
     
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  17. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    R.C. Sproul has a free series on his website where he dives into (and defends) Partial Preterism. I wonder if anyone here has listened to it and would be willing to share their thoughts? I would consider myself a weak Partial Preterist. Out of all the views I've heard, this one seems to make the most sense, though like all of them I think there are some glaring holes that are tough to resolve.

    The Last Days According to Jesus by R.C. Sproul
     
  18. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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  19. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    When Jesus sits on His glorious throne it is for judgment. Jesus made it clear he had all power after His resurrection at Matthew 28:18. Paul equally makes it very clear at Ephesians 1:18-22 as well as Colossians 1:15-20, and Philippians 2:9-11


    Yes. We are members of the kingdom (Christians), therefor we are the kingdom as a pronoun. However the noun "kingdom" is what we look to inherit in the end.

    Daniel 7:13-14 is prophesying Christs' position after His resurection. That is when God gives Him All authority. Again Matthew 28-18, Ephesians 1:18-22, and Philippians 2:9-11 make it pretty clear that's the case.

    The kingdom is now and future, because it is not complete until "all that the Father gives Christ comes to Him" As 1 Corinthians 15:24 says, Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father. We know the kingdom exist now because we are citizens of it as Colossians 1:13 makes clear.

    The fact that the OD doesn't mention resurrection doesn't mean it doesn't happen. How does Christ "gather" all the nations" appear before Christ for judgment Matthew 25:32...without resurrection?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK, working backwards

    Mt 25:31-46 = "Sheep & Goats" ending in "everlasting punishment vs. everlasting life" = FJ ?
    Mt 25:14-30 = "Bags of Gold" when Master returns "after a long journey" = 2C ?
    Mt 25:1-13 = "10 Virgins" which is like the "Bags of Gold" parable as Bridegroom was a "long time in coming" = 2C ?
    Mt 24:35-51 = "Day & Hour Unknown" = 2C & FJ ?

    Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man

    So, then:
    1. Matthew 24:1-34 [OD-1] = 70 AD
    2. Matthew 24:35-25:46 [OD-2] = future 2C @ FJ
    In turn, that implies:
    1. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 = OD-1 = 70 AD
    2. 1 Thessalonians 5 = 2 Thess 2 = OD-2 = future 2C @ FJ
    upload_2019-10-31_12-44-42.png
     
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