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The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by 1disciple, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Are there any parial preterist around?
     
  2. Apex

    Apex Radical Centrist & Ethicist

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    The links you provided seem to do a good job at giving the views of Gentry and Kik. I'm not sure what specifically you are looking for. I own a few of Gentry's books.

    I am a preterist. I am currently partial, but I am open to full. The best book on this topic is probably The Parousia by James Stuart Russell. If you are interested in preterism, this is the first book you need to read.

    I used to be a hardcore classical dispensationalist until I read that book. When I became a Christian, it was within a dispensationalist church. My first Bible was a NASB Ryrie Study Bible. I went to a dispensationalist university and studied under Thomas Ice. In fact, I've probably read close to 60 monographs/commentaries from dispensationalist authors like Hitchcock, Walvoord, Ryrie, Morris, Bock, Feinberg, etc. I even listened to Chuck Smith preach through the entire Bible! I was VERY committed to a futurist view.
     
  3. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I'm a partial preterist. My journey started when I decided to read the bible through chronologically using "Our Daily Bread" in the mid 1980's. Doing that made me think and back off from the dispensational theology, which was all I was taught by the church I attended after being saved, which was Fundamental Baptist and taught from the KJV Scofield Bible, but I used the NASB Study Bible and the Thompson Chain Reference Bible for study.

    Chronological reading of the scriptures lead me to rethink that which I was being taught, so I backed away from eschatology altogether until I could reach a conclusion through study. Aside from scripture, teachers that helped me reach a conclusion were R. C. Sproul and Hank Hannegraf.

    I also read "The Parousia" by Stuart Russell. In the mid 90's I had learned enough to see myself as a partial preterist. In earlier posts in this safe house, I listed books that I recommend on eschatology. Three that I strongly recommend are:

    *R C Sproul - "The Last Days According to Jesus"

    *Hank Hannegraf - "The Apocalypse Code"

    *Kenneth Gentry - "Before Jerusalem Fell"
     
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  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Have you and/or others checked out this thread?


    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/full-preterist-safe-house.7784643/
    Full Preterist Safe House
     
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  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    [/QUOTE]Any Pretererist here heard of this site?

    The Preterist Movement - United Preterist Church

    The Christian Preterist Movement
    The Christian Preterist Movement It's About Time! A Christian Movement with a message that hasn't been heard for 2000 years.
    A new Christian Movement looking for evangelists to spread the Good News. The Good News that the WORLD WILL NEVER END! Since the death of the Apostles,all the Churches and denominations of Christendom,for two millennium,have taught that Jesus would return soon...in their lifetime...and the world would end. After all,isn't that what Jesus said? Isn't that what the Apostles believed? Of course. But what if the second century Church was wrong? What if they misunderstood what Jesus said? Peter,Paul,James,John and the rest of the apostles were dead. They had been the ones who were always there to guide and correct them. But who would guide and correct them now? They had the Gospels and the Letters! Didn't it say in them that Jesus would return...soon...in their lifetime? The second century Christians had not yet see Jesus return ...in the flesh...bodily...gather them together...take them to heaven...destroy the world and the Devil...and set up his Everlasting Kingdom on earth. And since they hadn't seen the return of Christ...it obviously hadn't happened. So they believed that he was coming...soon...in their lifetime. And all the Churches and denominations since then have believed the same thing...that Jesus was coming soon...in their lifetime. And so it is today. But what if they're wrong? What if they had missed one important fact? Jesus said he would return soon...in their lifetime. In whose lifetime? Who was He talking to? Who were they? The Apostles and disciples! He told the Apostles and disciples he would return to them! Jesus said that some of them would not die before they would see his return! And some of them did live to see His return...in 70 at the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. He didn't say he would return to the second century Christians.”But they had the Holy Spirit to teach and guide them,how could they have been wrong?”. The Holy Spirit was teaching them...through the Gospels and Letters. If they would not believe the writings that He inspired,what more could he say? But why? Why didn't they believe what was written? Because the Christians who were left behind after His return in 70,were left behind. They couldn't believe that Jesus would leave them behind. They believed they were true Christians. They knew that Jesus said he would destroy the Temple,but that was all that was, just a local war...but not the end of the world! And so they waited for Him to return to them...in their lifetime....and waited...and waited...and waited. While they were waiting they taught their children and other new converts about the soon return of the Lord. This was the teaching of the Fathers of the post 70 Church. They taught this till they died. All succeeding Churches have been built on the teachings of the post 70 Church Fathers.”But surely some of the second century Christians must have known the truth?” I am sure they did. “What happened to their writings?” Destroyed! “Heretics!” “None of us Christians believe that?” Sometimes the “Heretics” are right and the church is wrong. Remember Martin Luther. One Christian standing up for truth against the whole Church. The Church has been wrong about this for 2000 years. They have had enough time to correct this error. It is time for Christians to take a stand for truth!...It's about time!...It's about time!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  6. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I've not heard of that site. I don't ascribe to full preterism and I really don't like the term "partial preterist", which I am because many just lump partial preterist with full preterist...and some not even knowing the difference.

    There *seems* to be a failure to associate Matthew 24 with Matthew 25. Matthew 24 deals with the judgment of Jerusalem, the temple, and the dispersion, while Matthew 25 deals with the church after that.
     
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  7. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance. Supporter

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    I like to think i am a partial preterist too. I truly believe that people have got Revelation all wrong.

    This site is full of end times experts each with their own unique view on Revelation etc.
     
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  8. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 12:39-40 = Luke 11:29-30

    no other sign would be given Jesus' generation ("this generation") than that of Jonah:
    • 3 days in giant fish = 3 days in tomb
    • emerging from fish = Resurrection
    • preaching to Nineveh = preaching to Jerusalem (cp. "Babylon" in Revelation)
    Ninevites heard of Jonah's miraculous salvation, and so they repented according to Jonah's "pedigree". Jerusalem directly saw Jesus' Resurrection, a more major miracle, and yet repented not. Hence, they will arise on Judgement Day to condemn first century Jerusalem.

    no other sign to 1st century "this generation" is consistent with dividing the Olivet Discourse at Matthew 24:35, everything before referring to the "sign" of the Son of Man in heaven at the right hand of God in power = 70 AD = fall of Jerusalem & Julian dynasty of Caesars who both brought about the Crucifixion...

    everything after that refers the second "coming" a "long time" into the far future (Matthew 24:48) = Final Judgement & eternity = Revelation 20:9 = 2 Peter 3:10
     
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  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I would like to know how much of Matthew 24 and Revelation one can view as being fulfilled and still be within orthodoxy.

    From what I know there is a group of partial preterist that view Matthew 24:1-34,35 as fulfilled on 70ad Jerusalem, and the rest is in the far the future
    This was a post by a partial preterist on another forum [Dee Dee Warren, who also wrote a book on Matthew 24]
    ===================================================
    Bait and Switch?

    I had promised that although I am not dogmatic beyond verse 34 that I would explore the issue of Matthew 24 past that point a bit.
    However, though I may build on this section in the future, it is not intended to be comprehensive as was the prior section.

    There are two primary camps within preterism on this issue:

    1 one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On],
    2 and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

    proponents of the latter view [that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off]] , include Dan Trotter and Gary DeMar

    and proponents of the former view [that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On]] include Kenneth Gentry and Marcellus Kik

    Frankly there are strong arguments for both, and I have held both positions, in fact in writing this piece I have waffled - when I started writing I was becoming very convinced of a Pro-Switch view, now upon writing it I am back to my former position of a No-Switch view.

    If in fact there is any change after verse 34, this would be what I would propose (I have not—or my poor memory is not allowing me to recall—read anyone who has made this type of the characterization): the entire Discourse has primary and typological ramifications as does almost the entirety of the Bible, properly understood.
    ===========================================================

    So color me confused.............

    .
     
  10. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    THE BEST COMMENTARIES ON MATTHEW

    The Olivet discourse must agree with revelation.

    Revelation describes the destruction of Babylon. In Chapter 18 = 70ad. At the hands of the beast... Who

    10 horns afterwards Is defeated by Christianity. In Chapter 19... Bringing about the Millennium...

    Ending in the little time of. Gog and Magog...

    Ending in turn at final judgment when fire comes from Heaven at the end of earth time. Revelation 20:9.

    So the OD starts. In Revelation 18. And ends. In the middle of Revelation 20. Skipping over the Millennium and everything else in between
     
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  11. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hebrews, 4. Describes. The Biblical Sabbath day of rest. IE the Millennium. The 1000 year Millennium of Revelation 20. And Hebrews, describes that Millennial Sabbath Biblical day of rest as not having begun yet.
     
  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Then dear sister I would say keep reading Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Keep in mind who his audience is. We know from Mark 13:3 that it is Peter, James, John, and Andrew.

    If you like I could share my view of Matthew 24.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hello ebed.
    I am interested in your view of it.
    Thanks.
    Regards, Steve aka LLoJ
     
  14. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Well, here it is to be brief:
    I hold that every bit of Matthew 24 deals with the destruction of Jerusalem as well as the dispersal of the Jews from the land. Jesus is preparing his apostles for the things that would come upon them once he ascended back to the Father. Matthew 24 is the final judgment of God upon Israel for violating the Old Covenant as well as rejecting Christ as their messiah.

    I equally hold we are in the time of the parables of Matthew 25 which end with Jesus return to judge all.

    That's where I stand...BUT...I continue to study knowing there's still much to learn and remaining open to the Spirit help me understand these things. To get the Olivet Discourse correct we need Matthew 24 &25, Mark 13, Luke 21...and the most expanded version of the Olivet Discourse...Revelation!
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Interesting post and thanks for your view.
    The whole Olivet Discourse and most of Revelation deals with the 1st century judgement on the Jews and their City/Temple IMHO.
    Have you checked out these 2 threads? They should appeal to both Preterists and Amills I would think.

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized


    Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

    G2 920

    Mat 23
    23 'Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved you to do, and those not to neglect.
    33 'Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

    2Pe 3:7
    and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.

    Jde 1:15

    to do judgment against all, and to convict all their impious ones, concerning all their works of impiety that they did impiously,
    and concerning all the stiff things that speak against Him did impious sinners.'

    Revelation 18:
    10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying
    "Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
    That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
     
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  16. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 24:33 = James 5:8 [62ad] = 1 Peter 4:7 [64ad]
    "at hand, at the door"
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Great verses Erik!

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Luke uses "Kingdom of God" instead of "nigh at the doors".

    Perhaps inferring that it was "the Kingdom of God that was nigh at the doors".

    "THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION PROPHECY


    Matthew 24:33
    Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these,
    be ye knowing! that nigh<1451> it is being upon doors.

    Mark 13:29
    thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
    be knowing! that nigh<1451>, it is being upon doors.

    Luke 21:31
    Thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
    ye are knowing that nigh<1451> is being the Kingdom of the God;

    1 Peter 4:7
    Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
    be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

    James 5:8
    be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
    that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord is nigh<1448>
     
  18. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    according to the book Infiltration by Dr. Taylor Marshall, the sovereignly independent Papal States existed for a thousand years from (approximately) Charlemagne to Napoleon III, 754-1870 AD. Consistent with that being the Millennium (Rev 20:1-6), modern Popes have reported visions of the Church being surrounded by demonic forces seemingly similar to Gog & Magog after the Millennium (Rev 20:7-9)
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Here is a great website on Pretererism.........

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

    HOME: THE PRETERIST ARCHIVE OF REALIZED ESCHATOLOGY

    ARTICLE CLASS: PARTIAL PRETERISM




    Contemporary "Partial Preterist" View

    A.D.70
    A
    coming (parousia) of Christ
    A day of the Lord
    A judgment
    The end of the Jewish Age

    Still Future
    The
    Day of the Lord
    The Resurrection of the dead
    The Rapture of the living
    The (final) Judgment
    The end of history

    (Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)
    The Coming (parousia) of Christ
     
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    How do others here view Armageddon in Revelation?

    As most here know, I view the Great City as 1st century Jerusalem.
    But if that is the case, then Armageddon would also concern 1st century Israel and Jerusalem.

    I am thinking of making a thread on it, but before I do, I want to see what the stance of others here on it.

    I keyed in "jerusalem armageddon" into google search and this site was at the top and is from a Preterist view.........

    Interpreting Revelation: There is No Future Battle of Armageddon

    There is No Future Battle of Armageddon:

    3. Finally, one of the most powerful arguments comes from Don Preston's book called Blast From the Past: The Truth About Armageddon.
    He notes that as evangelicals we all believe that Christians go to heaven when they die. But according to Revelation 11:19, John said, "Then the temple of God WAS OPENED in heaven, and the ark of His Covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake and great hail." Revelation 15:8 tells us, "The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and NO ONE WAS ABLE TO ENTER THE TEMPLE TILL the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed."

    Therefore, Armageddon was a past event because 1, it is not an actual place but a symbol of Jerusalem; 2, it happens BEFORE Christ's thief in the night motif which was the judgment of Jerusalem in AD 70; and 3, if not, then no one can yet enter into the Holy of Holies (heaven) because the entrance wasn't available until after the wrath of God was finished at Armageddon.
    =======================================

    I like what the commentator said about those wanting to be taught the book of Revelation:

    Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1


    The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire. These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages. Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world.
    Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted!

    Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types. When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION! I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance,
    and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation! "Yeah, brother, that’s for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!
     
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