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What "Believers" Refuse to Believe (Part 1)

TogetherInHim

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"works" after salvation are judged, but ALL believers appear on the Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ. Rewards or losses do not effect salvation.

Correct. "Salvation" is the eternal life that Christ gives in exchange for our death sentence that Adam brought into the world. The judgment of those who have accepted Christ as Savior for their "salvation" are judged at the resurrection to determine if they have met the reasonable expectations of their "Lord" to receive their promised "inheritance", entrance to the kingdom of heaven.

You have correct stated, "Rewards or losses do not effect salvation." We are saved permanently from "death" and given "everlasting life". We are then headed toward the promised kingdom...

However, as far as the "entrance to the kingdom" reward of our "inheritance"...

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:26

If we say, “Well, he wasn’t really saved…” or, "He wasn't really a servant", we are contradicting the Lord who has defined this relationship as “Lord” and “Servant”. The Lord has no expectation of productivity from those who have not received him in covenant. Even if they “produced” something, that could not result in salvation or it would be a works-based salvation. No, it’s all about the entrance to the kingdom…

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Or his appointee.
Ignatius to smyrneans.
He/polycarp( of Smyrna) knew/ were disciples of John the apostle. If John didn't know what john6 means who does?
All the earliest fathers, Justin martyr etc were adamant about the bishops.

Unfortunately I can’t accept Ignatius’ epistles as evidence. There have been many forgeries over the years. Out of 15 epistles claimed to be written by Ignatius 8 of them have been proven without doubt to be forgeries and the other 7 are also believed to be forgeries as well due to their episcopal emphasis which was very uncommon for the time period in which they were written. They are believed to be pseudepigraphically written. Some say possibly around 220BC and others say many centuries later ranging between 550BC-1100BC.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I absolutely agree with you.

However, if I can deduce the intent of this thread correctly (Which is quite difficult I might add.. lol) is that there are some who are attaching works to us getting into heaven as if we are under law again.

To my mind, that is absolutely incorrect... what we should rather do, is teach/enable Christians to be/become fruitful in Christ as they grow in discipleship - not preach people back under law via works.

I agree with you on that. Our works or obedience to the law do not earn our salvation. It is our faith that allows us to receive God’s grace and forgiveness which allows us to receive salvation and enter heaven. But even after receiving grace we must continue to abide in Him. We cannot go astray and begin living a sinful life and ignoring the Holy Spirit like the servant of the master in
Matthew 24:45-51
 
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Der Alte

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Unfortunately I can’t accept Ignatius’ epistles as evidence. There have been many forgeries over the years. Out of 15 epistles claimed to be written by Ignatius 8 of them have been proven without doubt to be forgeries and
I believe this is factual but not the rest.
the other 7 are also believed to be forgeries as well due to their episcopal emphasis which was very uncommon for the time period in which they were written. They are believed to be pseudepigraphically written. Some say possibly around 220BC and others say many centuries later ranging between 550BC-1100BC
Can you provide any credible, verifiable evidence to support any of this?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Correct. "Salvation" is the eternal life that Christ gives in exchange for our death sentence that Adam brought into the world. The judgment of those who have accepted Christ as Savior for their "salvation" are judged at the resurrection to determine if they have met the reasonable expectations of their "Lord" to receive their promised "inheritance", entrance to the kingdom of heaven.

You have correct stated, "Rewards or losses do not effect salvation." We are saved permanently from "death" and given "everlasting life". We are then headed toward the promised kingdom...

However, as far as the "entrance to the kingdom" reward of our "inheritance"...

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:26

If we say, “Well, he wasn’t really saved…” or, "He wasn't really a servant", we are contradicting the Lord who has defined this relationship as “Lord” and “Servant”. The Lord has no expectation of productivity from those who have not received him in covenant. Even if they “produced” something, that could not result in salvation or it would be a works-based salvation. No, it’s all about the entrance to the kingdom…

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

If your SAVED you get entrance to the Kingdom..

eternal life = entrance to Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven (same same)
 
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bling

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I don't think that this left Esau without any inheritance. Essentially, he "suffered loss" of his inheritance advantage ...
What ever it was it could not be stolen, lost (like a set of keys), and his father would not be taking it back, but Esau could give it awy, like we can give our deed to a home in heaven away.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I agree with you on that. Our works or obedience to the law do not earn our salvation. It is our faith that allows us to receive God’s grace and forgiveness which allows us to receive salvation and enter heaven. But even after receiving grace we must continue to abide in Him. We cannot go astray and begin living a sinful life and ignoring the Holy Spirit like the servant of the master in
Matthew 24:45-51

+1

Absolutely agree..
 
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TogetherInHim

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Your thoughts seem to have gotten lost and I cannot understand what point your attempting to make.

Is there a way you can make a clear point in a succinct manner so that I may understand you?

I will try...

“Saved From What?”

"Saved"- Saved from the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3)

There are two possibilities, "perish" (death as a consequence of Adam's sin) or "everlasting life". Jesus "saves" us from death and gives us everlasting life. That is "salvation". That happens when we accept his sacrifice and exchange our mortality for immortality.

Then... Our Inheritance is ahead upon our resurrection...

Only after we have entered the covenant and have been born again by the spirit can we "strive to enter" our promised "inheritance" which has conditions of entry. These conditions are the expectations of the "Lord" over his "servants", those to whom he has given "salvation" and a promised place that they must value and possess. See the parable of the Treasure hidden in a field, the pearl of great price, the parable of the talents, and others...
 
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A_Thinker

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What ever it was it could not be stolen, lost (like a set of keys), and his father would not be taking it back, but Esau could give it awy, like we can give our deed to a home in heaven away.

It's not a deed ... it's a familial relationship. We have been adopted into God's family.

I think that it may be possible to disavow such a relationship, ... but anything short of that ending the relationship is iffy, I think ...
 
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TogetherInHim

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I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15:1-6

Someone must be a believer to be able to remain in Christ. They cannot be in Christ if they do not believe. So please explain the branches that will be thrown away and burned.
 
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A_Thinker

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I think that we are struggling with (I certainly have been) ... the mentions of "servants" being consigned to "outer darkness".

My current thought on these passages ... is that these passages refer to those who considered themselves to be servants of God within Israel, ... who, in part, failed to stick with God's program (i.e. accept and support the Messiah).
 
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Hazelelponi

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I will try...

“Saved From What?”

"Saved"- Saved from the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3)

There are two possibilities, "perish" (death as a consequence of Adam's sin) or "everlasting life". Jesus "saves" us from death and gives us everlasting life. That is "salvation". That happens when we accept his sacrifice and exchange our mortality for immortality.

Then... Our Inheritance is ahead upon our resurrection...

Only after we have entered the covenant and have been born again by the spirit can we "strive to enter" our promised "inheritance" which has conditions of entry. These conditions are the expectations of the "Lord" over his "servants", those to whom he has given "salvation" and a promised place that they must value and possess. See the parable of the Treasure hidden in a field, the pearl of great price, the parable of the talents, and others...

let me try again.

If your SAVED (from the second death) through faith in Jesus Christ to salvation then your eternal soul needs somewhere to go.. and guess what? We go to the Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven to spend eternity with the object of our love (Yea!)

Rewards, based in discipleship, are said to be crowns in the Bible..
 
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Hazelelponi

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I think that we are struggling with (I certainly have been) ... the mentions of "servants" being consigned to "outer darkness".

My current thought on these passages ... is that these passages refer to those who considered themselves to be servants of God within Israel, ... who, in part, failed to stick with God's program (i.e. accept and support the Messiah).

Point out what your talking about.

In my mind, it's more than just "belief" in God when we believe to our Salvation, because even Satan believes.. James 2:19

I think there is something in the Jesus is Lord statement that we make Romans 10:9 , which apparently someone who is not truly saved cannot say, or say truthfully.. 1 Corinthians 12:3

To know whether we are saved, we are given several items for our confirmation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is one Ephesians 1:13 , our fruits is another, (i.e. do we have real love in our hearts for our brothers and sisters in Christ? John 13:35 ) is another and so forth..

Its the heart change which is our confirmation, if we have that then ALL else will fall into place. Romans 13:8-14

If we don't have that then we may be fooling ourselves as to our standing before God..

I dont know its just a thought...
 
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BNR32FAN

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BNR32FAN

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I think that we are struggling with (I certainly have been) ... the mentions of "servants" being consigned to "outer darkness".

My current thought on these passages ... is that these passages refer to those who considered themselves to be servants of God within Israel, ... who, in part, failed to stick with God's program (i.e. accept and support the Messiah).

I believe the servant of the master is a servant of God. The Bible gives many examples of people who will not be saved because of their actions. Here’s a few examples.

I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.


John 15:1-6


When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.


Matthew 25:31-46


Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8


Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Matthew 18:3-10

None of these examples give any indication of excluding believers. They all apply to everyone believers included.
 
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TogetherInHim

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To BNR32FAN

Sorry, I had difficulty replying directly. I hope you see this.

Here is your quote and the explanation you asked for...

I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15:1-6

Someone must be a believer to be able to remain in Christ. They cannot be in Christ if they do not believe. So please explain the branches that will be thrown away and burned.

CORRECT! "Someone must be a believer to be able to remain in Christ."

Also, someone cannot be a "branch in Me", as are all these, without having been grafted in through the covenant of Christ, "salvation".

I am going to use the American Standard Version of this passage. It doesn't change the meaning.

Let's go verse by verse...

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
The words, "In Me" mean those to whom he has entered into covenant with, given "salvation" from death, given eternal life, and has grafted them into the "Vine", Jesus. Unbelievers are not "In Me". There is no expectation of fruit-bearing from someone not "in Christ".

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
The "you" are all "the branches" who have been grafted into the Vine, having been made "clean" by the work of Christ on the cross, "salvation", washed clean by the blood of the Lamb.

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
Why tell us to "abide in him" if is not possible to be "in him" and not abide? When we, those who have received salvation, abide in Christ, we will produce fruit. If we, those who have received salvation, do not abide in Christ, will not produce fruit.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
The "Vinedresser" expects those who have been grafted into the Vine to produce fruit. When he sees that there is no expected fruit from from a branch that is "in him", he cuts it off and throws it in the fire.

We cannot say that the branch was not connected to the vine or it would not need to be disconnected, cut off. It is a clear example, specifically stated, that the branch that was "in him", was cut off because it did not "abide in him" so as to produce what God expected.

7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
"If you abided in Me and My words abide in you..." Our "abiding" in him will result in asking and receiving from God, bearing much fruit, and glorifying him. It is obvious (hopefully) that the choice and responsibility to "abide in him" is ours with benefits and consequences.

10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
"IF" you keep my commandments...
This is not the "law" to receive "salvation". It is the reasonable expectations of a loving Lord who has given us everything.

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15

If we love him, we will abide in him and bear much fruit. If we have been given everything that he has given to those who accept his "salvation" and then do not abide in him, producing the evidence of fruit, then we lose our "inheritance", the kingdom of heaven and are thrown in the fire.
 
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Hazelelponi

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To BNR32FAN

Sorry, I had difficulty replying directly. I hope you see this.

Here is your quote and the explanation you asked for...



CORRECT! "Someone must be a believer to be able to remain in Christ."

Also, someone cannot be a "branch in Me", as are all these, without having been grafted in through the covenant of Christ, "salvation".

I am going to use the American Standard Version of this passage. It doesn't change the meaning.

Let's go verse by verse...

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
The words, "In Me" mean those to whom he has entered into covenant with, given "salvation" from death, given eternal life, and has grafted them into the "Vine", Jesus. Unbelievers are not "In Me". There is no expectation of fruit-bearing from someone not "in Christ".

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
The "you" are all "the branches" who have been grafted into the Vine, having been made "clean" by the work of Christ on the cross, "salvation", washed clean by the blood of the Lamb.

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
Why tell us to "abide in him" if is not possible to be "in him" and not abide? When we, those who have received salvation, abide in Christ, we will produce fruit. If we, those who have received salvation, do not abide in Christ, will not produce fruit.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
The "Vinedresser" expects those who have been grafted into the Vine to produce fruit. When he sees that there is no expected fruit from from a branch that is "in him", he cuts it off and throws it in the fire.

We cannot say that the branch was not connected to the vine or it would not need to be disconnected, cut off. It is a clear example, specifically stated, that the branch that was "in him", was cut off because it did not "abide in him" so as to produce what God expected.

7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
"If you abided in Me and My words abide in you..." Our "abiding" in him will result in asking and receiving from God, bearing much fruit, and glorifying him. It is obvious (hopefully) that the choice and responsibility to "abide in him" is ours with benefits and consequences.

10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
"IF" you keep my commandments...
This is not the "law" to receive "salvation". It is the reasonable expectations of a loving Lord who has given us everything.
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15

If we love him, we will abide in him and bear much fruit. If we have been given everything that he has given to those who accept his "salvation" and then do not abide in him, producing the evidence of fruit, then we lose our "inheritance", the kingdom of heaven and are thrown in the fire.

Now here is the question of the day..

What is that fruit?

Are you qualified to judge the fruit of another?

What is your fruit?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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Hazelelponi

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I believe the servant of the master is a servant of God. The Bible gives many examples of people who will not be saved because of their actions. Here’s a few examples.

I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.


John 15:1-6


When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.


Matthew 25:31-46


Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8


Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Matthew 18:3-10

None of these examples give any indication of excluding believers. They all apply to everyone believers included.

Yet, I think you were right to point out the passage:

But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.

What are we doing to not point out hope and faith in Jesus' love and forgiveness?

1 John 1:9 1 John 2:1-3

As much as we should search our own hearts, we should also be reminded that we can always be forgiven..

None of us are perfect, but in Christ and step by step we can overcome.
 
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