Masturbation

[Dave-W]

Every believer is filled (Spirit within) at new birth. Yes, we apparently can "leak" at times and get re-filled. But you are confusing the baptism and gifts of the Spirit with being filled. Those are all "Spirit upon."

 

[NBB]

Every believer is filled (Spirit within) at new birth. Yes, we apparently can "leak" at times and get re-filled. But you are confusing the baptism and gifts of the Spirit with being filled. Those are all "Spirit upon."

Maybe its different words only, you get the Holy spirit when believing, but not the filling, or 'baptism of the holy spirit' i prefer filling.

 

[NBB]

I i said my bad experience part, but being filled with the Holy spirit is very nice, exciting for things that may happen, safety feeling, a faith increasing experience, one of the best you can have.

 

[Ancient of Days]

Hmmm. four pages of arm wrestling and the OP hasn't chimed in...

 

[Sam91]

In Song of Solomon chapter 5, verse 2 and following, is an interesting narrative. Shulamite is in bed, dreaming or fantasizing that her lover is at the door. She becomes aroused. She awakes with her hand dripping with wetness. What do you think she was doing?

BTW, in that story, she is called undefiled.

2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night.

It says nothing of the sort. Her lover is calling, wet from the moisture of the air outside.

 

[Dave-W]

It says nothing of the sort. Her lover is calling, wet from the moisture of the air outside.

It is clearer in the Hebrew. Myrrh ( and occasionally frankincense) is symbolic all thru the poem of her wetness from arousal.

This symbology is common in ancient near east erotic poetry.

You are intentionally reading a non-sexual explanation.

 

[Sam91]

It is clearer in the Hebrew. Myrrh ( and occasionally frankincense) is symbolic all thru the poem of her wetness from arousal.

This symbology is common in ancient near east erotic poetry.

You are intentionally reading a non-sexual explanation.

No. I checked with an open-minded.

2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night.

Her hand is not mentioned. She is asleep and gets woken up. He is outside at the door. She doesn't want to get out of bed, she would need to get dressed, defile her feet. She sees his hand through the door, has compassion but when going to the door he has gone. Maybe you quoted the wrong verse?

The only wet body part mentioned in here is the males hair and head.

 

[Dave-W]

Her hand is not mentioned.

The only wet body part mentioned in here is the males hair and head.

5 I arose to open for my beloved, And my hands dripped with myrrh,
My fingers with liquid myrrh, On the handles of the lock.​

I would submit that a repeat of THIS was her dream or fantasy:

Song of Solomon 2:6 NET
His left hand caresses my head, and his right hand stimulates me.
​

Only this time it was her own hand. Which is how she got "myrrh" on her hand and fingers.

 

[Sam91]

5 I arose to open for my beloved, And my hands dripped with myrrh,
My fingers with liquid myrrh, On the handles of the lock.

Your first post was a little incorrect then.
2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night.

I still do not think it means that. I checked Matthew Henry's commentary because I was reminded when reading of the 10 virgins and revelation 3. It seems that he does too.

" (v. 5, I rose up, to open to my beloved ), his grace inclining her to do it and conquering the opposition of unbelief. It was her own act, and yet he wrought it in her. And now her hands dropped with myrrh upon the handles of the lock. Either, 1. She found it there when she applied her hand to the lock, to shoot it back; he that put in his hand by the hole of the door left it there as an evidence that he had been there. When Christ has wrought powerfully upon a soul he leaves a blessed sweetness in it, which is very delightful to it. With this he oiled the lock, to make it go easy. Note, When we apply ourselves to our duty, in the lively exercises of faith, under the influence of divine grace, we shall find it will go on much more readily and sweetly than we expected. If we will but rise up, to open to Christ, we shall find the difficulty we apprehended in it strangely overcome, and shall say with Daniel, Now let my Lord speak, for thou hast strengthened me, Dan. 10:19 . Or, 2. She brought it thither. Her bowels being moved for her beloved, who had stood so long in the cold and wet, when she came to open to him she prepared to anoint his head, and so to refresh and comfort him, and perhaps to prevent his catching cold; she was in such haste to meet him that she would not stay to make the usual preparation, but dipped her hand in her box of ointment, that she might readily anoint his head at his first coming in. Those that open the doors of their hearts to Christ, those everlasting doors, must meet him with the lively exercises of faith and other graces, and with these must anoint him.VI. Her said disappointment when she did open to her beloved. And here is the most melancholy part of the story: I opened to my beloved, as I intended, but, alas! my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone. My beloved was gone, was gone, so the word is.1. She did not open to him at his first knock, and now she came too late, when afterwards she would have inherited this blessing. Christ will be sought while he may be found; if we slip our time, we may lose our passage. Note, (1.) Christ justly rebukes our delays with his denials, and suspends the communications of comfort from those that are remiss and drowsy in their duty. (2.) Christ’s departures are matter of great grief and lamentation to believers. The royal psalmist never complains of any thing with such sorrowful accents as God’s hiding his face from him, and casting him off, and forsaking him. The spouse here is ready to tear her hair, and rend her clothes, and wring her hands, crying, He is gone, he is gone; and that which cuts her to the heart is that she may thank herself, she provoked him to withdraw. "

 

[Sam91]

In Song of Solomon chapter 5, verse 2 and following, is an interesting narrative. Shulamite is in bed, dreaming or fantasizing that her lover is at the door. She becomes aroused. She awakes with her hand dripping with wetness. What do you think she was doing?

BTW, in that story, she is called undefiled.

(The original post that I was disputing.)

 

[Dave-W]

She sees his hand through the door, has compassion but when going to the door he has gone.

FYI: the word "door" is actually not in verse 4. It is just "hole."
The word hole is used elsewhere in the OT to describe a body cavity or a snake hole in the ground.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

FYI: the word "door" is actually not in verse 4. It is just "hole."
The word hole is used elsewhere in the OT to describe a body cavity or a snake hole in the ground.

What Jews consider to be seductive marriage bed pillow talk christians actually believe to be sacred scripture enacting spiritual truths of love and care of God to His disciple. Spiritual bodies are not fleshly.

 

[Dave-W]

Your first post was a little incorrect then.

Did you notice what I wrote?

"In Song of Solomon chapter 5, verse 2 and following,"

Not just verse 2.

I checked Matthew Henry's commentary

He was writing from a viewpoint that the Song was only an allegory of Christ and the church, which disallowed a specifically sexual understanding. Other commentators of his era said the same. In Benson's Commentary, the preface to the Song said that any sexual understanding of the book was perverse and sinful.

 

[Sam91]

FYI: the word "door" is actually not in verse 4. It is just "hole."
The word hole is used elsewhere in the OT to describe a body cavity or a snake hole in the ground.

I read different versions and with the more modern versions it does sound more sensual. So I can see where you are getting it from now. Next time quote the passage and not just a verse.

 

[Sam91]

Did you notice what I wrote?

"In Song of Solomon chapter 5, verse 2 and following,"

Not just verse 2.

He was writing from a viewpoint that the Song was only an allegory of Christ and the church, which disallowed a specifically sexual understanding. Other commentators of his era said the same. In Benson's Commentary, the preface to the Song said that any sexual understanding of the book was perverse and sinful.

Lol.. no I didn't notice the words 'and following.' Besides the KJV version I read originally said 'the door'. When I read multiple versions that KJV had 'the door' in a different type to show it was an addition.

 

[Dave-W]

hat Jews consider to be seductive marriage bed pillow talk christians actually believe to be sacred scripture enacting spiritual truths of love and care of God to His disciple. Spiritual bodies are not fleshly.

Hebrew as a language supports multiple layers of meaning, all true. All Semitic languages have that feature. (Chaldean, Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) So in this case, both the intensely erotic love poem AND the allegory between either God and Israel or Christ and the Church, are equally true.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Hebrew as a language supports multiple layers of meaning, all true. All Semitic languages have that feature. (Chaldean, Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) So in this case, both the intensely erotic love poem AND the allegory between either God and Israel or Christ and the Church, are equally true.

Different levels of truth. Someone from a base level of truth cannot understand that of a higher truth until revealed. But after the higher level of truth is obtained then it's a sin to fall back on the lower level of truth.

 

[Dave-W]

Besides the KJV version I read originally said 'the door'.

That is why I go back to the original. So much can be lost (or added in this case) in translation.

 

[Dave-W]

Different levels of truth. Someone from a base level of truth cannot understand that of a higher truth until revealed. But after the higher level of truth is obtained then it's a sin to fall back on the lower level of truth.

That is not how it works. All 4 levels are equally true, even if they conflict with one another. There is no "higher" or "lower" level.

What you say may work for some Greek texts, but this is Hebrew. Different language, different rules.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

That is not how it works. All 4 levels are equally true, even if they conflict with one another. There is no "higher" or "lower" level.

Yes there is. God's truth and man's truth.