Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

[pitabread]

If the universe and life were uncaused, then everything just came into existence out of absolutely nothing. What kind of logic is that?

On the other hand, if it was all caused, it had to be created by something supernatural (God) outside the universe.

So what caused God?

 

[VirOptimus]

IF evolution is true.

The ToE is real and true, its incredibly well-supported by facts and observed.

Saying otherwise is delusional at best.

 

[AV1611VET]

The ToE is real and true, its incredibly well-supported by facts and observed.

Including the incredible well-supported missing links?

We observe the same facts as you do; only you see the doughnuts, and we see the donught holes.

(If evolution was real, it should be a Berliner doughnut; one with no holes.)

Saying otherwise is delusional at best.

Yes, I know.

Anyone who dares disagree is threatened with at least an insult.

I don't think teaching by insult is the way to educate anyone.

Then we wonder why our children are turning out the way they are?

Fighting, resisting authority, even attacking adults.

And that's just on the bus!

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

If the universe and life were uncaused, then everything just came into existence out of absolutely nothing. What kind of logic is that?

On the other hand, if it was all caused, it had to be created by something supernatural (God) outside the universe. Creation critics keep crying that it’s only faith, but Creation also seems like the only logical answer to me.

False Dichotomy, that is... Here, let me point out the obvious:

If the universe and life were uncaused, then everything just came into existence out of absolutely nothing. On the other hand, if it was all caused, it had to be created by something supernatural (Brahma) outside the universe.

You can easy swap "Brahma" with Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Anyone who dares disagree is threatened with at least an insult.

I don't think teaching by insult is the way to educate anyone.

Then we wonder why our children are turning out the way they are?

Fighting, resisting authority, even attacking adults.

And that's just on the bus!

lol! Yeah, I TOTALLY Agree - too bad Christians can't help themselves, right AV?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...tic-child-with-hell-for-not-believing-in-god/

"Nothing says “Christian love” like threatening a 5-year-old autistic child with eternal damnation.

In Pennsylvania a public school bus driver repeatedly tells a 5-year-old autistic child she would go to hell and be burned with “fireballs” if she doesn’t believe in God.

According to reports, the bus driver also told the child that her parents needed to seek Jesus’s forgiveness or they would go to hell, and that it was “bad” that her parents did not have a bible for her."​

https://www.richarddawkins.net/2013/01/physical-versus-mental-child-abuse/

"Once, in the question time after a lecture in Dublin, I was asked what I thought about the widely publicized cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in Ireland. I replied that, horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place. It was an off-the-cuff remark made in the heat of the moment, and I was surprised that it earned a round of enthusiastic applause from that Irish audience (composed, admittedly, of Dublin intellectuals and presumably not representative of the country at large). But I was reminded of the incident later when I received a letter from an American woman in her forties who had been brought up Roman Catholic. At the age of seven, she told me, two unpleasant things had happened to her. She was sexually abused by her parish priest in his car. And, around the same time, a little schoolfriend of hers, who had tragically died, went to hell because she was a Protestant. Or so my correspondent had been led to believe by the then official doctrine of her parents’ church. Her view as a mature adult was that, of these two examples of Roman Catholic child abuse, the one physical and the other mental, the second was by far the worst. She wrote

"Being fondled by the priest simply left the impression (from the mind of a 7 year old) as ‘yucky’ while the memory of my friend going to hell was one of cold, immeasurable fear. I never lost sleep because of the priest – but I spent many a night being terrified that the people I loved would go to Hell. It gave me nightmares.""​

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-child-a...d-up-down-in-hell-being-tortured-for-eternity

"Just my opinion….YES! Total child abuse. We have been told by sources, who would never lie to us, such as ministers, parents, Sunday School teachers and KJB, that God has created the ultimate torture for those not following Him.

We consider Adolph Hitler the embodiment of evil. Yet, when comparing Hitler’s torture for those he considered undesirables to what we are told a loving God created, Hitler almost resembles Shirley Temple.

If my son were to disown me, change his name and never again make contact with me, there is NO WAY I could send him to be tortured forever. Odd that we are told God could do so."​

https://religiouseducation.co.nz/kids-going-hell-ri-class/

"Kids being told that they are “going to hell” in bible classes is something that we are repeatedly told “does not happen” by Christians supportive of Religious Instruction Classes. However, I know it does because I’ve seen so many comments to that effect. I should have saved them all (kicking myself) but in only a few minutes, I was able to find 6 quotes from people in NZ who either experienced that for themselves or whose children were attacked in this way. I’ve also heard of other school kids threatening their non-Christian friends with hell because they don’t believe in God. Some might say that this is not the responsibility of actual teachers or bible teachers but I say that you can’t bring a religious ideology into a school and then claim no responsibility for how it spreads."​

EDIT: That is big of you to admit we're all human and not that Christians have some higher moral ground than everyone else, AV - perhaps in light of this, we could all work together to promote more secular values inclusive of all of us, reminding everyone we should all be more mindful about accepting each other for who they are, regardless their religion, ideology, sexual preference, etc. and not persecute others based on our personal unfounded and intolerant religious beliefs, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

You can easy swap "Brahma" with Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc.

Our job is to do the opposite.

Get them to swap Brahma, Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc. with Jesus Christ.

In spite of what academia says; not with respect to it.

 

[AV1611VET]

EDIT: That is big of you to admit we're all human and not that Christians have some higher moral ground than everyone else, AV - perhaps in light of this, we could all work together to promote more secular values inclusive of all of us, reminding everyone we should all be more mindful about accepting each other for who they are, regardless their religion, ideology, sexual preference, etc. and not persecute others based on our personal unfounded and intolerant religious beliefs, right?

Wrong.

You'll go to Hell and be burned with fireballs if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Our job is to do the opposite.

Get them to swap Brahma, Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc. with Jesus Christ.

In spite of what academia says; not with respect to it.

As they're all likely doing the other way too. Pity there's no tangible evidence for any of your propositions...

Wrong.

You'll go to Hell and be burned with fireballs if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.

there's some Good ol' Christian tolerance and understanding right there...

 

[inquiring mind]

So what caused God?

Coming from you, I’m sure this is only a rhetorical question.

 

[inquiring mind]

False Dichotomy, that is... Here, let me point out the obvious:

If the universe and life were uncaused, then everything just came into existence out of absolutely nothing. On the other hand, if it was all caused, it had to be created by something supernatural (Brahma) outside the universe.

You can easy swap "Brahma" with Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc.

The ToE is real and true, its incredibly well-supported by facts and observed.

Saying otherwise is delusional at best.

I disagree with delusional, but the truth is often just as upsetting for some people.

 

[inquiring mind]

False Dichotomy, that is... Here, let me point out the obvious:

If the universe and life were uncaused, then everything just came into existence out of absolutely nothing. On the other hand, if it was all caused, it had to be created by something supernatural (Brahma) outside the universe.

You can easy swap "Brahma" with Zeus, Allah, Mithra, Ra, Odin, FSM, Invisible Magic Unicorns, Universe creating Pixies, etc.

Or, “poof, everything just happened on its own for some strange reason,” yeah right.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Or, “poof, everything just happened on its own for some strange reason,” yeah right.

Well, it's actually You that believes that - I accept the science that demonstrates life is a set of complex chemical reactions that follows well understood laws of physics - and not your "poof, God just happened to bring about the universe for some strange reason after sitting around for an eternity on its own" story...

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Coming from you, I’m sure this is only a rhetorical question.

Well, I'd be interested to know, after all - everything has to have a beginning, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

There's some Good ol' Christian tolerance and understanding right there...

2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

You'll forgive me if I don't trade terror for tolerance?

 

[inquiring mind]

Well, you might believe that - but I accept the science that demonstrates life is a set of complex chemical reactions that follows well understood laws of physics - and not your "poof, God just happened to bring about the universe for some strange reason after sitting around for an eternity on its own" story...

What proof would it take for you to accept God's involvement?

 

[inquiring mind]

Well, I'd be interested to know, after all - everything has to have a beginning, right?

I can only point you to what the Lord tells us:
Isaiah 55:8-9

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

"If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?"
"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the 'Momentary' masters of a 'Fraction' of a 'Dot'" - Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot.​

You'll forgive me if I don't trade terror for tolerance?

All good, I have a pretty clear picture of this 'loving' God you propose...

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

What proof would it take for you to accept God's involvement?

I can't say I'm sure, but if there is a God, that God would know, right? - That said, what do you have?

I can only point you to what the Lord tells us:
Isaiah 55:8-9

How do you know your Lord said this?

 

[AV1611VET]

All good, I have a pretty clear picture of this 'loving' God you propose...

And I of yours.

Mother Nature: the cause of all death, decay, and disappointment.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you know your Lord said this?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.