Is God infinitely ancient?

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Maybe we can put the question this way....Can God play Chess and Checkers at the same time? Two boards on the table. Chess being thought of as a higher dimensional playing game with more potential then the basic lower dimensional or less potential game of Checkers.

Yes God could play both games at the same time just as various grand master chess players of the past played against multiple opponents (Emanuel Lasker played 20+ Chess games simultaneously blindfolded!).
I do like where you're going in reframing my original question! Does God need to play chess in order to experience chess or can he simply observe chess to experience chess?

 

[DennisTate]

I read this over and over trying to understand the connection you are making and it fails me. So please, take a moment and look at this. Your goal was that intelligent design is taught in schools. I replied by asking you why you thought state funded schools would teach such things... and you replied with information about near death experiences. That has "nothing" to do with your idea to teach intelligent design in the schools nor does it even remotely come close to addressing my reply. I don't get it....

The vast majority of teachers care about the long term welfare of their students.......

Teachers notice how so many of their students are prone to fall into drug addiction and even suicidal tendencies.......

Teachers know that the existing rather dogmatic quite Atheistic teachings on Evolutionary Theory fly in the face of what Colton Burpo reported to his dad, Pastor Todd Burpo that was made popular in the book and movie, Heaven is For Real.

A somewhat more Theistic version of Evolutionary Theory..... that allows for G-d evolving...... in the sense of getting better and better at creation....... and eventually making an Adam and Eve pair......
would allow teachers to use some especially positive NDE accounts to encourage their students and perhaps decrease the probability of them becoming suicidal or prone to the misuse of illegal drugs.

I am 95% certain that this is the book that I read about that study in:

Transformed by the Light

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

The vast majority of teachers care about the long term welfare of their students.......

Teachers notice how so many of their students are prone to fall into drug addiction and even suicidal tendencies.......

Teachers know that the existing rather dogmatic quite Atheistic teachings on Evolutionary Theory fly in the face of what Colton Burpo reported to his dad, Pastor Todd Burpo that was made popular in the book and movie, Heaven is For Real.

A somewhat more Theistic version of Evolutionary Theory..... that allows for G-d evolving...... in the sense of getting better and better at creation....... and eventually making an Adam and Eve pair......
would allow teachers to use some especially positive NDE accounts to encourage their students and perhaps decrease the probability of them becoming suicidal or prone to the misuse of illegal drugs.

I am 95% certain that this is the book that I read about that study in:

Transformed by the Light

But what does this book have to do with your original question on God and time?

 

[sdowney717]

God is described as the Ancient of Days.
Simply God has no beginning and no ending.
God upholds everything created by the word of His power.
Time is just a measure of ongoing corruption occurring, an entropy due to the fall in the garden of Eden.
So before time began, God is eternal and after time ends, God is eternal.

AND, for us who God saved, we were individually given a holy calling By God, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. Meaning we were all individually predestined by God to be what we are before the beginning of time, God had it all figured out, Known to God from eternity Oh Lord are all your works..

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Acts 15:18
“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

God is described as the Ancient of Days.
Simply God has no beginning and no ending.
God upholds everything created by the word of His power.
Time is just a measure of ongoing corruption occurring, an entropy due to the fall in the garden of Eden.
So before time began, God is eternal and after time ends, God is eternal.

AND, for us who God saved, we were individually given a holy calling By God, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. Meaning we were all individually predestined by God to be what we are before the beginning of time, God had it all figured out, Known to God from eternity Oh Lord are all your works..

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Acts 15:18
“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

Nice citations! I'll have to add the 2 Timothy and Titus reference to memory.

 

[Ken Rank]

Hello brother! From what I could gather from reading Dennis' response to your question, he was stating that these people who read the accounts of those with near death experiences did not attempt suicide because of what happened in the lives of those who had NDE: therefore without him clearly finishing his thought he meant to make the point that this could also lead in people changing their behavior and beliefs about God if people simply read the Bible: this was hinted in his closing question about people not being alcohol or drug addicts if they read the accounts of what happened to other addicts.

Perhaps, but the amount of people who have these experiences are not anywhere near enough to influence the leftist political machine that pushes creation in schools. There is simply no way these NDE folks can do anything to bring intelligent design into schools... and that is my point. Throw in two more facts... we can't legislate morality (that is actually heresy in it's true form, I can explain if you want) and we cannot usher in the Kingdom, that is God's work alone. He might use us, but if we are here planning it all out, like Dennis has a tendency to do (and I love his zeal, just saying...) then we are taking in our hands HIS work.

Listen brother and @DennisTate .... in Matthew when we hear the truly scary reply to "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" ("I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!") Do you know what, "in your name" means there? It doesn't mean that laid hands on somebody and said, "In the name of Yeshua rise" (or be healed or whatever)... in your name means in your authority, in your will, in a manner consistent with your character. So these people were OUT IN FRONT OF GOD... not following but leading Him. They were acting presumptuously, outside of His will EVEN THOUGH they thought they were in His will. That is why I act as I have about some of your posts Dennis. You have a GREAT heart for peace and restoration... but your zeal has you out in front sometimes and it scares me. Faith comes by HEARING and faith without works is dead. True faith is hearing God and doing as He declares. Make sure you hear before you act... the guys in Matthew 7:21-23 did not hear first, and they acted, and they were wrong and paid for it.

 

[Ken Rank]

The vast majority of teachers care about the long term welfare of their students.......

Teachers notice how so many of their students are prone to fall into drug addiction and even suicidal tendencies.......

Teachers know that the existing rather dogmatic quite Atheistic teachings on Evolutionary Theory fly in the face of what Colton Burpo reported to his dad, Pastor Todd Burpo that was made popular in the book and movie, Heaven is For Real.

A somewhat more Theistic version of Evolutionary Theory..... that allows for G-d evolving...... in the sense of getting better and better at creation....... and eventually making an Adam and Eve pair......
would allow teachers to use some especially positive NDE accounts to encourage their students and perhaps decrease the probability of them becoming suicidal or prone to the misuse of illegal drugs.

I am 95% certain that this is the book that I read about that study in:

Transformed by the Light

I agree most teachers care about their students... but you are wrong if you think they believe God belongs in the schools. According to a USA Today survey, only 20% of teachers across this country voted for Trump... Hillary carried 80% of the teachers Dennis. Did Hillary represent godly values? Or is she pro-abortion, and does she interpret the constitution to say that God belongs in public schools? Do you think SHE wanted creation taught in schools? No, no way at all and the 80% of the teachers who voted for her KNEW THAT. Please combine with what I am saying here to the post I tagged you in a few moments ago. Beyond these statements, I have nothing else to say on this topic. Be a light, let the world see Yeshua in you... but don't try to legislate morality, don't try to usher in the Kingdom. It will all happen according to God's will in God's timing. Our mission is the teach those who SEEK... only those who SEEK will find!

Blessings.
Ken

 

[DennisTate]

But what does this book have to do with your original question on God and time?

A dogmatic and overly simplistic theology on what G-d is like.......
nails G-d down to being unable to learn..... or improve at creating life forms.

 

[Ken Rank]

A dogmatic and overly simplistic theology on what G-d is like.......
nails G-d down to being unable to learn..... or improve at creating life forms.

Does the bible say that God does not change and that He is all knowing?

Job 21:22 "Can anyone teach God knowledge, In that He judges those on high?

What is the answer to that question, yes? No, nobody can teach God, why?

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

His understanding is infinite and He knows all things. So chalk me off to being overly simplistic but chalk off the authors of the bible as well.

 

[DennisTate]

Does the bible say that God does not change and that He is all knowing?

Job 21:22 "Can anyone teach God knowledge, In that He judges those on high?

What is the answer to that question, yes? No, nobody can teach God, why?

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

His understanding is infinite and He knows all things. So chalk me off to being overly simplistic but chalk off the authors of the bible as well.

But your first sentence should not be understood to be nailing G-d down to be so weak.... and so anemic... that G-d cannot invent a Multiverse in which humans... .and angels... and fallen angels..... .have genuine freedom of choice......
which could at least some of the time... .result in G-d getting a pleasant surprise.

Genesis 22:12

"And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only sonfrom me."

One of the possible implications of this verse could be that now..........
in this moment in this time line..... Abraham has attained the level of
the mind of Messiah...... that G-d can bless with a permanent blessing of an amount of the Holy Spirit that will never be taken away from him...... not even in multiple time lines all of which fulfill Ezekiel chapter 37...... centuries before that prophecy is even written.

Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.

 

[Ken Rank]

But your first sentence should not be understood to be nailing G-d down to be so weak.... and so anemic... that G-d cannot invent a Multiverse in which humans... .and angels... and fallen angels..... .have genuine freedom of choice......
which could at least some of the time... .result in G-d getting a pleasant surprise.

Genesis 22:12

"And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only sonfrom me."

One of the possible implications of this verse could be that now..........
in this moment in this time line..... Abraham has attained the level of
the mind of Messiah...... that G-d can bless with a permanent blessing of an amount of the Holy Spirit that will never be taken away from him...... not even in multiple time lines all of which fulfill Ezekiel chapter 37...... centuries before that prophecy is even written.

Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.

I have nothing to add. God is outside of time and space, He occupies all, knows all... I shared verses showing Him knowing all... and you reply with words like "possible" and Flash type words like "multiverse" that while interesting, are theory only. It profanes God's name (reputation, character) to say He needs to learn when the bible says He knows all things. That is taking away from Scripture and taking away from God Himself. Those are places I won't walk on, Dennis.

 

[DennisTate]

Why do you think that?

Something resembling time..... would not exist.... until something resembling "space" had been invented........

 

[SkyWriting]

Did God exist from infinite time in the past?

Time began when Adam sinned.

 

[DennisTate]

Time began when Adam sinned.

Time as we know it anyway.......
that is probably quite true.........

 

[DennisTate]

I agree most teachers care about their students... but you are wrong if you think they believe God belongs in the schools. According to a USA Today survey, only 20% of teachers across this country voted for Trump... Hillary carried 80% of the teachers Dennis. Did Hillary represent godly values? Or is she pro-abortion, and does she interpret the constitution to say that God belongs in public schools? Do you think SHE wanted creation taught in schools? No, no way at all and the 80% of the teachers who voted for her KNEW THAT. Please combine with what I am saying here to the post I tagged you in a few moments ago. Beyond these statements, I have nothing else to say on this topic. Be a light, let the world see Yeshua in you... but don't try to legislate morality, don't try to usher in the Kingdom. It will all happen according to God's will in God's timing. Our mission is the teach those who SEEK... only those who SEEK will find!

Blessings.
Ken

Good information Pastor Ken.... yes.... I could guess that Hillary would get the vote of eighty percent of teachers..... that fits with what teachers up here in Canada expressed to me as well.

This is one of the reasons why I am hoping that the State of Utah can come forward with some attempts to usher in an improved educational and economic system.

Would a Utah State Dollar be a good idea?

 

[DennisTate]

I have nothing to add. God is outside of time and space, He occupies all, knows all... I shared verses showing Him knowing all... and you reply with words like "possible" and Flash type words like "multiverse" that while interesting, are theory only. It profanes God's name (reputation, character) to say He needs to learn when the bible says He knows all things. That is taking away from Scripture and taking away from God Himself. Those are places I won't walk on, Dennis.

But the question comes down to a simple question like.......
was there ever a time before G-d had invented squirrels... .or perhaps mosquitos?

I think that by going back far enough in something like time......
you would eventually reach a point that would pre-squirrel... or pre - mosquito time period ???? I admit that I could be wrong about this....... but it makes sense to me and in my mind..... makes G-d greater rather than lesser.

 

[DennisTate]

Perhaps, but the amount of people who have these experiences are not anywhere near enough to influence the leftist political machine that pushes creation in schools. There is simply no way these NDE folks can do anything to bring intelligent design into schools... and that is my point. Throw in two more facts... we can't legislate morality (that is actually heresy in it's true form, I can explain if you want) and we cannot usher in the Kingdom, that is God's work alone. He might use us, but if we are here planning it all out, like Dennis has a tendency to do (and I love his zeal, just saying...) then we are taking in our hands HIS work.

Listen brother and @DennisTate .... in Matthew when we hear the truly scary reply to "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" ("I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!") Do you know what, "in your name" means there? It doesn't mean that laid hands on somebody and said, "In the name of Yeshua rise" (or be healed or whatever)... in your name means in your authority, in your will, in a manner consistent with your character. So these people were OUT IN FRONT OF GOD... not following but leading Him. They were acting presumptuously, outside of His will EVEN THOUGH they thought they were in His will. That is why I act as I have about some of your posts Dennis. You have a GREAT heart for peace and restoration... but your zeal has you out in front sometimes and it scares me. Faith comes by HEARING and faith without works is dead. True faith is hearing God and doing as He declares. Make sure you hear before you act... the guys in Matthew 7:21-23 did not hear first, and they acted, and they were wrong and paid for it.

I just finished reading the Movie Version of Heaven is For Real about the near death experience of a three year and ten month old little boy............ and the way that this book is written.... .and the way that the movie was done....... is indeed reaching people all across the denominational and even religious spectrum.

There is an account in the book about a Palestinian woman who is a Muslim talking about how the book had her family in a discussion...... about religion... that did not lead to them having an argument! She told this to Pastor Todd Burpo while he was on a plane trip.

 

[DennisTate]

I have nothing to add. God is outside of time and space, He occupies all, knows all... I shared verses showing Him knowing all... and you reply with words like "possible" and Flash type words like "multiverse" that while interesting, are theory only. It profanes God's name (reputation, character) to say He needs to learn when the bible says He knows all things. That is taking away from Scripture and taking away from God Himself. Those are places I won't walk on, Dennis.

I actually agree that G-d is outside of space and time ......
and I believe that time....was something of an invention designed to take souls up to a higher level of love, empathy, compassion and wisdom.

 

[DennisTate]

Does the bible say that God does not change and that He is all knowing?

Job 21:22 "Can anyone teach God knowledge, In that He judges those on high?

What is the answer to that question, yes? No, nobody can teach God, why?

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

His understanding is infinite and He knows all things. So chalk me off to being overly simplistic but chalk off the authors of the bible as well.

But... the incident with Abraham and his son Isaac... .indicates that humans can get to a place spiritually and emotionally .... where G-d can then bless them in a manner that is unconditional............
whereas before they got to that level.......G-d could only given them conditional blessings......

Gen 22:16

And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

 

[Ken Rank]

But the question comes down to a simple question like.......
was there ever a time before G-d had invented squirrels... .or perhaps mosquitos?

I think that by going back far enough in something like time......
you would eventually reach a point that would pre-squirrel... or pre - mosquito time period ???? I admit that I could be wrong about this....... but it makes sense to me and in my mind..... makes G-d greater rather than lesser.

You're right, not wrong. Before "Let there be" He existed, but there was no physical realm as we understand it or that we were ever part of. All I am saying is... if something is eternal, then by definition the use of the word "time" is redundant. Time doesn't exist in the eternal so to say, "if we go back far enough in time" still doesn't connect with the timeless. He is without time... so going back and forth in time on proves He always existed.