Is God infinitely ancient?

[Ken Rank]

I just finished reading the Movie Version of Heaven is For Real about the near death experience of a three year and ten month old little boy............ and the way that this book is written.... .and the way that the movie was done....... is indeed reaching people all across the denominational and even religious spectrum.

There is an account in the book about a Palestinian woman who is a Muslim talking about how the book had her family in a discussion...... about religion... that did not lead to them having an argument! She told this to Pastor Todd Burpo while he was on a plane trip.

Perhaps. But when my son was 3 he said, "When I was daddy's age I died in the army" (he meant in military battle). Do I then develop a doctrine of reincarnation based on what can very well be the imagination of a boy being exposed to new things but who lacks the discernment abilities to separate fact from fiction? Here is another... when my daughter was 2 we were walking down the driveway (we live in the country, it's a 1/4 mile long trek) and there was a tiny tree beginning to grow where I can't have trees. So, I reached over and pulled it out and as it left the ground, my daughter shrieked as if in pain crying, "My tree." Now, because it appeared as if in pain, could I deduce that we are all connected and lose the ability to discern that connection to nature as we grow? Perhaps.... could I deduce that there is some kind of indwelling of God until a certain age and when I pulled the tree out it wasn't her but Him who said, "My tree?" One could, I guess... but I rather think that one can make a doctrine about anything that want and only need just a small proof to pull it off.

This is why I repeat the bible which says, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." The 3 examples I gave above lack ANY biblical support, so they are not part of "every word of God." Therefore, unless He comes down and makes it clear that they are indeed true things, I have to reject them because my allegiance is to Him and His word... not theories that can be taken out of context and out of any connection to "every word of God."

 

[Ken Rank]

But... the incident with Abraham and his son Isaac... .indicates that humans can get to a place spiritually and emotionally .... where G-d can then bless them in a manner that is unconditional............
whereas before they got to that level.......G-d could only given them conditional blessings......

Gen 22:16

And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

I don't have a problem with that but what you just said comes from "every word of God" and isn't a theory of man. That's the difference... see last part of last post.

 

[DennisTate]

Perhaps. But when my son was 3 he said, "When I was daddy's age I died in the army" (he meant in military battle). Do I then develop a doctrine of reincarnation based on what can very well be the imagination of a boy being exposed to new things but who lacks the discernment abilities to separate fact from fiction? Here is another... when my daughter was 2 we were walking down the driveway (we live in the country, it's a 1/4 mile long trek) and there was a tiny tree beginning to grow where I can't have trees. So, I reached over and pulled it out and as it left the ground, my daughter shrieked as if in pain crying, "My tree." Now, because it appeared as if in pain, could I deduce that we are all connected and lose the ability to discern that connection to nature as we grow? Perhaps.... could I deduce that there is some kind of indwelling of God until a certain age and when I pulled the tree out it wasn't her but Him who said, "My tree?" One could, I guess... but I rather think that one can make a doctrine about anything that want and only need just a small proof to pull it off.

This is why I repeat the bible which says, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." The 3 examples I gave above lack ANY biblical support, so they are not part of "every word of God." Therefore, unless He comes down and makes it clear that they are indeed true things, I have to reject them because my allegiance is to Him and His word... not theories that can be taken out of context and out of any connection to "every word of God."

In order to fully understand this subject.... .we must define the word "soul" and add at least some explanation for the many references that seem to indicate that at least some part of our "soul".... existed prior to the time of our conception??????

This is a truly complex question......... and once it is more fully undstood it is off the scale humbling........... and I do not claim to understand this topic fully........ only a tiny percentage of it.....

 

[Ken Rank]

In order to fully understand this subject.... .we must define the word "soul" and add at least some explanation for the many references that seem to indicate that at least some part of our "soul".... existed prior to the time of our conception??????

This is a truly complex question......... and once it is more fully undstood it is off the scale humbling........... and I do not claim to understand this topic fully........ only a tiny percentage of it.....

I don't believe it did. God formed Adam from the dusted, breathed life into him AND THEN HE BECAME a living soul.

 

[DennisTate]

I don't believe it did. God formed Adam from the dusted, breathed life into him AND THEN HE BECAME a living soul.

Well said..... but an interesting question is..... what exactly was it that G-d breathed into Adam and Eve?????

What capabilities does the human soul really have???

 

[Ken Rank]

Well said..... but an interesting question is..... what exactly was it that G-d breathed into Adam and Eve?????

What capabilities does the human soul really have???

We're Christians, which means we are to live by faith... hearing God, acting on what we hear. We don't have to micro-analyze the unspoken parts of Scripture. There are plenty of blank spots Dennis, plenty of places where it is fair more silent and ambiguous than most realize and would be comfortable with. Part of understanding the "spirit of the law" (intent) allows us to accept those silent areas and when confronted with something not specifically mentioned in Scripture, deal with it from that "intent" perspective. But to spend out energies working on any hypothetical point that don't enhance our daily walk is a waste of time, in my opinion. God formed Adam from the ground (body) and God breathed into Adam life (spirit) and when those two came together, they became a living soul. We weren't a soul before, we'll cease being one when the body dies or the spirit/breath leaves.... but combined we are a soul.

What are we capable of... anything. That is why God confounded the language at Babel, isn't it? Anything we put our minds to we can eventually make it work. Interestingly, we have overcome God's intervention... His confounding of the languages. How? The internet for one. We can speak to each other in real time and just "translate" it into our language. But now we have Star Trek like pocket translators that allow us to speak to anyone in any other language and in real time, hear them in our language. So we are capable of a lot.

But the point isn't to go exploring down that path... that was a path that God cut off long ago. The fact that we can overcome it probably reveals how close we are to the end. Why explore it... why not teach those who want to learn the ways of God so they can walk a righteous walk before Him... before it's too late?

 

[DennisTate]

We're Christians, which means we are to live by faith... hearing God, acting on what we hear. We don't have to micro-analyze the unspoken parts of Scripture. There are plenty of blank spots Dennis, plenty of places where it is fair more silent and ambiguous than most realize and would be comfortable with. Part of understanding the "spirit of the law" (intent) allows us to accept those silent areas and when confronted with something not specifically mentioned in Scripture, deal with it from that "intent" perspective. But to spend out energies working on any hypothetical point that don't enhance our daily walk is a waste of time, in my opinion. God formed Adam from the ground (body) and God breathed into Adam life (spirit) and when those two came together, they became a living soul. We weren't a soul before, we'll cease being one when the body dies or the spirit/breath leaves.... but combined we are a soul.

What are we capable of... anything. That is why God confounded the language at Babel, isn't it? Anything we put our minds to we can eventually make it work. Interestingly, we have overcome God's intervention... His confounding of the languages. How? The internet for one. We can speak to each other in real time and just "translate" it into our language. But now we have Star Trek like pocket translators that allow us to speak to anyone in any other language and in real time, hear them in our language. So we are capable of a lot.

But the point isn't to go exploring down that path... that was a path that God cut off long ago. The fact that we can overcome it probably reveals how close we are to the end. Why explore it... why not teach those who want to learn the ways of God so they can walk a righteous walk before Him... before it's too late?

I've been attempting to use NDE accounts to clarify many passages in both the Christian as well as the Jewish Bible. It is working better than my attempting to just explain scriptures by themselves.

 

[Ken Rank]

I've been attempting to use NDE accounts to clarify many passages in both the Christian as well as the Jewish Bible. It is working better than my attempting to just explain scriptures by themselves.

Not trying to strain at gnats here... but if by Christian and Jewish bibles you mean the NT and OT then it would help your studies dramatically if you began to view that as one book for both people. There is no "NT" without an OT anyway... view it as one book and the lens through which you see becomes much clearer.

Shalom.
Ken

 

[DennisTate]

Not trying to strain at gnats here... but if by Christian and Jewish bibles you mean the NT and OT then it would help your studies dramatically if you began to view that as one book for both people. There is no "NT" without an OT anyway... view it as one book and the lens through which you see becomes much clearer.

Shalom.
Ken

True...... it is indeed one book.... and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus endorsed the Prophets!

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken::

 

[DennisTate]

are you saying that the days in Genesis chapter 1 are literal 24 hour days, or 7 periods of time?

I was thinking that they were literal days......
but with symbolic meaning for a 7000 year period of time.

 

[DennisTate]

Not trying to strain at gnats here... but if by Christian and Jewish bibles you mean the NT and OT then it would help your studies dramatically if you began to view that as one book for both people. There is no "NT" without an OT anyway... view it as one book and the lens through which you see becomes much clearer.

Shalom.
Ken

True.... it is really one book.... that is for certain! The promises and prophecies of the Jewish Bible were significantly fulfilled in the New Testament....... but we in the church may be astonished as Ezekiel 40
to 48 come to pass in the upcoming years, decades and centuries.

Especially Ezekiel 47