Your level of Ethical and Moral Integrity

[2PhiloVoid]

So, it's like this: I came to the realization that I'm human. *gasp *

This wasn't a recent realization, mind you, in fact it's been in the works in my brain for quite some time. But I think it's fair to say that it has been only more recently that I've begun to fully come to grips with just how short I might be of the ethical and moral ideal I claim to hold.

As many of you know already, the ethical ideal I hold essentially centers upon the person of Jesus and His kerygma (i.e. His preaching). Some of you hold to a different social "set" of ethics than I do, a set that finds its center in various moral philosophers or ethicists who you've felt either drawn to, or who have essentially expressed for you what seems to be the most sensible moral life; maybe some of you are even just scooting along by the seat of your pants from day to day. I don't know, and I'm not really interested in hearing about anyone's ...*ahem*...various experiments or exploits, or major moral failures that are the outcome of various kinds of--shall we say--moral arrangements.

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

So, in a self-reflective manner, consider where you think you are on the spectrum of ethical/moral integrity, and if you'll lend us your opinion about yourself, I have a poll for you to respond to in an anonymous fashion. I'd think it'd be great if y'all would participate in the poll at the very least, even if you don't wish to discuss more details about why you feel the way you do about your moral growth or lack thereof.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for participating if you so choose to.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It seems it may be appropriate, ( like when you see someone standing in the road and traffic is coming give a warning? )
to repeat Yahweh's Warning when there may be a lot of ungodly speech or ungodly advice coming soon (already in places) >>
1 John 4 MSG


1 My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

 

[“Paisios”]

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

I fail miserably most of the time, I fear. I do not love the Lord my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, and I do not love my neighbor as myself. I look out for myself first and foremost.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Since my moral framework is "Whatever I say is good, at the moment I say it's good, defines what is good at that moment.", I'm pretty much bulletproof...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I fail miserably most of the time, I fear. I do not love the Lord my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, and I do not love my neighbor as myself. I look out for myself first and foremost.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Thank you for sharing this with honesty, Shoetoyou! I appreciate it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because ... No one who is born of God will continue to sin,.....

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Since my moral framework is "Whatever I say is good, at the moment I say it's good, defines what is good at that moment.", I'm pretty much bulletproof...

Dude, that's so great! I wish I were a "Superman." [Nietzsche, anyone?] But, hey, just being a moral Ant-man still has a few perks.

 

[“Paisios”]

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because ... No one who is born of God will continue to sin,.....

Then please pray that God will have mercy on me, and guide me in right ways.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then please pray that God will have mercy on me, and guide me in right ways.

That's up to Him.

As always, our (Ekklesia) prayers with Jesus are that Yahweh's Will and Purpose be Accomplished as He Desires.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Since my moral framework is "Whatever I say is good, at the moment I say it's good, defines what is good at that moment.", I'm pretty much bulletproof...

Yes it seems that being a hypocrite becomes much more likely if one actually has a fixed and universal moral code. Many people, particularly the political minded, prefer the moral code stated as If I do it, it is ok, but if someone I don't like, or who has opposing political affiliations or views,
does it, then it is immoral and unethical and ought to be illegal when I'm not the one doing it.

 

[dqhall]

So, it's like this: I came to the realization that I'm human. *gasp *

This wasn't a recent realization, mind you, in fact it's been in the works in my brain for quite some time. But I think it's fair to say that it has been only more recently that I've begun to fully coming to grips with just how short I might be of the ethical and moral ideal I claim to hold.

As many of you know already, the ethical ideal I hold essentially centers upon the person of Jesus and His kerygma (i.e. His preaching). Some of you hold to a different social "set" of ethics than I do, a set that finds its center in various moral philosophers or ethicists you've felt either drawn to, or who have essentially expressed for you what seems to be the moral life that most makes sense; maybe some of you are even just scooting along by the seat of your pants day to day. I don't know; and I'm not really interested in hearing about anyone's ...*ahem*...various experiments or exploits, or major moral failures that are the outcome of various kinds of--shall we say--moral arrangements.

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

So, in a self-reflective manner, consider where you think you are on the spectrum of ethical/moral continence, and if you'll lend us your opinion about yourself, I have a poll for you to respond to in an anonymous fashion. I'd think it'd be great if y'all would participate in the poll at the very least, even if you don't wish to discuss more details about why you feel the way you do about your moral growth or lack thereof.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for participating if you so choose to.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

I had a set of dietary ethics centered around the premise that all foods are clean and was not concerned about what I put in my mouth. This premise was based on Peter's vision in Acts about all sorts of animals being lowered on a sheet while he was in Joppa. Peter was being sent to a Gentile household where foods that are not Kosher would have been served. God told Peter to disregard the Kosher laws. I was proud, I could eat ham, bacon, pork chops, octopus and all sorts of things not clean for Jews.

I got kidney stones, high blood pressure and a number of other maladies. I was advised to cut back on eating meat. I changed my diet and my health improved. I yet have difficulty trying to perfect my diet, but am in the normal weight range and thankful that I learned nutrition is important. While studying nutrition texts I learned that nitrites in ham, hot dogs, bacon, lunch meats and Spam have been linked to a higher incidence of cancer. The World Health Organization stated these nitrite processed meats are carcinogenic.

When invited to a family meal, I ate the ham they served, but remembered to get back to my normal diet after leaving there. The people of Jesus' day did not have advanced medical texts to help them make informed decisions about their diet. I should be ignorant of these things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I had a set of dietary ethics centered around the premise that all foods are clean and was not concerned about what I put in my mouth. This premise was based on Peter's vision in Acts about all sorts of animals being lowered on a sheet while he was in Joppa. Peter was being sent to a Gentile household where foods that are not Kosher would have been served. God told Peter to disregard the Kosher laws. I was proud, I could eat ham, bacon, pork chops, octopus and all sorts of things not clean for Jews.

I got kidney stones, high blood pressure and a number of other maladies. I was advised to cut back on eating meat. I changed my diet and my health improved. I yet have difficulty trying to perfect my diet, but am in the normal weight range and thankful that I learned nutrition is important. While studying nutrition texts I learned that nitrites in ham, hot dogs, bacon, lunch meats and Spam have been linked to a higher incidence of cancer. The World Health Organization stated these nitrite processed meats are carcinogenic.

When invited to a family meal, I ate the ham they served, but remembered to get back to my normal diet after leaving there. The people of Jesus' day did not have advanced medical texts to help them make informed decisions about their diet. I should be ignorant of these things.

No righteous gentile (called righteous by Yahweh and also by the Jews) would eat non-kosher , unclean garbage ever -
nor would they ever even think of offering it to a Jew, follower of Jesus or not.
They knew the Torah better than practically anyone today,
and those who had faith in Yahweh, trusting and relying on Him daily all the time for their needs, would never willingly disobey Him, ever, no , not ever. They knew/know where the lawless one goes. (as written in Revelation and revealed always by Yahweh through Yahshua (Jesus) ) .

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I had a set of dietary ethics centered around the premise that all foods are clean and was not concerned about what I put in my mouth. This premise was based on Peter's vision in Acts about all sorts of animals being lowered on a sheet while he was in Joppa. Peter was being sent to a Gentile household where foods that are not Kosher would have been served. God told Peter to disregard the Kosher laws. I was proud, I could eat ham, bacon, pork chops, octopus and all sorts of things not clean for Jews.

I got kidney stones, high blood pressure and a number of other maladies. I was advised to cut back on eating meat. I changed my diet and my health improved. I yet have difficulty trying to perfect my diet, but am in the normal weight range and thankful that I learned nutrition is important. While studying nutrition texts I learned that nitrites in ham, hot dogs, bacon, lunch meats and Spam have been linked to a higher incidence of cancer. The World Health Organization stated these nitrite processed meats are carcinogenic.

When invited to a family meal, I ate the ham they served, but remembered to get back to my normal diet after leaving there. The people of Jesus' day did not have advanced medical texts to help them make informed decisions about their diet. I should be ignorant of these things.

Oh yes, wrestling with what we place into our diets can be quite a workout over time. I too have had to contend with modifying my diet since I have fairly high cholesterol--but oh, boy, look out, I like ice cream!

The funny thing about my own diet ideology is that it was only a few years ago while reading the O.T. that it finally dawned on me that part of the Law prohibited the eating of fat---any fat---from certain animals. And I thought to myself....man....that idea was ahead of its time. Now, I have to really watch it, especially since I'm not getting any younger. It also becomes a moral issue in that my family would like for me to make a stronger effort to control my diet and be healthier so I can remain around for them. That's probably a good thing. (I guess they love me. *sigh*)

Anyway, that thing you said about avoiding nitrates...........that is a good piece of advice, too!

Thanks for your comments, dqhall!

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Strange, isn't it, how it got passed down via tradition (it is not in TORAH)
to not eat any fat ?

True that a lot of fat with pesticides etc might be best not to eat,
but
look more and see if there is not some fat , I think part of a sacrifice or offering, that is to be eaten.

Also, it seems perfectly sensible that it is healthy to eat some fat. (But never pork) See "God's Key to Health and Happiness" by Pastor Josephson and how he recovered from terminal cancer (all the doctors told him we would die soon) , and a year or so later wrote the book - and lived healthy another 60+ years !

 

[dreadnought]

So, it's like this: I came to the realization that I'm human. *gasp *

This wasn't a recent realization, mind you, in fact it's been in the works in my brain for quite some time. But I think it's fair to say that it has been only more recently that I've begun to fully coming to grips with just how short I might be of the ethical and moral ideal I claim to hold.

As many of you know already, the ethical ideal I hold essentially centers upon the person of Jesus and His kerygma (i.e. His preaching). Some of you hold to a different social "set" of ethics than I do, a set that finds its center in various moral philosophers or ethicists you've felt either drawn to, or who have essentially expressed for you what seems to be the most sensible moral life; maybe some of you are even just scooting along by the seat of your pants from day to day. I don't know, and I'm not really interested in hearing about anyone's ...*ahem*...various experiments or exploits, or major moral failures that are the outcome of various kinds of--shall we say--moral arrangements.

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

So, in a self-reflective manner, consider where you think you are on the spectrum of ethical/moral continence, and if you'll lend us your opinion about yourself, I have a poll for you to respond to in an anonymous fashion. I'd think it'd be great if y'all would participate in the poll at the very least, even if you don't wish to discuss more details about why you feel the way you do about your moral growth or lack thereof.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for participating if you so choose to.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

I believe integrity equals obeying the Lord's commandments. How can one not obey them and claim they have integrity? The world, which is ruled by Satan, might claim otherwise, but the world doesn't have the last say.

 

[Job3315]

So, it's like this: I came to the realization that I'm human. *gasp *

This wasn't a recent realization, mind you, in fact it's been in the works in my brain for quite some time. But I think it's fair to say that it has been only more recently that I've begun to fully coming to grips with just how short I might be of the ethical and moral ideal I claim to hold.

As many of you know already, the ethical ideal I hold essentially centers upon the person of Jesus and His kerygma (i.e. His preaching). Some of you hold to a different social "set" of ethics than I do, a set that finds its center in various moral philosophers or ethicists you've felt either drawn to, or who have essentially expressed for you what seems to be the most sensible moral life; maybe some of you are even just scooting along by the seat of your pants from day to day. I don't know, and I'm not really interested in hearing about anyone's ...*ahem*...various experiments or exploits, or major moral failures that are the outcome of various kinds of--shall we say--moral arrangements.

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

So, in a self-reflective manner, consider where you think you are on the spectrum of ethical/moral continence, and if you'll lend us your opinion about yourself, I have a poll for you to respond to in an anonymous fashion. I'd think it'd be great if y'all would participate in the poll at the very least, even if you don't wish to discuss more details about why you feel the way you do about your moral growth or lack thereof.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for participating if you so choose to.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

One day I heard someone say, “The law doesn't require you to be perfect, it requires you to be reasonable”. That stuck in my mind, 7-8 hour conference and that’s what stuck. I live my life making sure I did the best with what I know and what I have at the moment.

 

[dqhall]

No righteous gentile (called righteous by Yahweh and also by the Jews) would eat non-kosher , unclean garbage ever -
nor would they ever even think of offering it to a Jew, follower of Jesus or not.
They knew the Torah better than practically anyone today,
and those who had faith in Yahweh, trusting and relying on Him daily all the time for their needs, would never willingly disobey Him, ever, no , not ever. They knew/know where the lawless one goes. (as written in Revelation and revealed always by Yahweh through Yahshua (Jesus) ) .

When I was in Israel I learned they do not offer pork or certain types of seafood in their restaurants.

It is strange that you would trust Kosher law that much. Hebrew National Franks are Kosher and full of nitrites that Gentiles have found to be carcinogenic. The rabbis certify their food holier than the health food I eat that has not been blessed by a rabbi.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutrit...t-is-carcinogenic-understanding-the-findings/

 

[zephcom]

So, it's like this: I came to the realization that I'm human. *gasp *

This wasn't a recent realization, mind you, in fact it's been in the works in my brain for quite some time. But I think it's fair to say that it has been only more recently that I've begun to fully coming to grips with just how short I might be of the ethical and moral ideal I claim to hold.

As many of you know already, the ethical ideal I hold essentially centers upon the person of Jesus and His kerygma (i.e. His preaching). Some of you hold to a different social "set" of ethics than I do, a set that finds its center in various moral philosophers or ethicists you've felt either drawn to, or who have essentially expressed for you what seems to be the most sensible moral life; maybe some of you are even just scooting along by the seat of your pants from day to day. I don't know, and I'm not really interested in hearing about anyone's ...*ahem*...various experiments or exploits, or major moral failures that are the outcome of various kinds of--shall we say--moral arrangements.

However, I am interested to hear about the extent to which you feel that you are able to live up to your own ethical ideal, whatever that is. Do you ever fail? Do you fail often? Or do you feel that your ethical situation and moral manner comport more or less with your ethical ideal? And if you'd like to share and discuss what your personal set of ethics and/or morality is centered on, feel free to discuss all of that as well.

So, in a self-reflective manner, consider where you think you are on the spectrum of ethical/moral continence, and if you'll lend us your opinion about yourself, I have a poll for you to respond to in an anonymous fashion. I'd think it'd be great if y'all would participate in the poll at the very least, even if you don't wish to discuss more details about why you feel the way you do about your moral growth or lack thereof.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for participating if you so choose to.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

I didn't participate in the poll. I don't keep track of my failings and successes so I have no idea where I would be in the ranking.

I, too, rely on the teachings of Jesus as a good guide for moral and ethical issues. Perhaps that is strange considering I list myself as a Deist. IMHO, the teachings of Jesus make sense to me regardless of who or what Jesus was. It is the teachings that I admire.

I'm convinced that Jesus taught a way of life rather than a moral or ethical code which provides for check boxes to provide a method of 'scoring' one's life. Jesus' teachings raised the bar much higher spiritually than something like 'The Law' that Jews follow.

When one reads just Jesus' direct teachings...which, after all, is all the Apostles had...one sees a lifestyle being taught. Every action, every thought, everything one does should be done with just one idea...would -I- want someone else to behave that way towards me.

If I would not like to have someone accost me on the street and yell at me for being different then I shouldn't do that to others. If I wouldn't like to be paid less than I was worth, then I shouldn't pay others less than they are worth. If I would like it if someone held the door open for me when my hands are full, -I- should do that for others. If I would like to have someone give me a lift up, then I should reach out and lift up others.

It's a lifestyle. It is not a check list. It is a standard of ethics which does not have a list of does and don'ts. One need only answer one question...Is my behavior loving towards others? If the answer is yes, then...maybe if that Kingdom Jesus talks about is real...my treasure chest will have something in it when I get there.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I didn't participate in the poll. I don't keep track of my failings and successes so I have no idea where I would be in the ranking.

I, too, rely on the teachings of Jesus as a good guide for moral and ethical issues. Perhaps that is strange considering I list myself as a Deist. IMHO, the teachings of Jesus make sense to me regardless of who or what Jesus was. It is the teachings that I admire.

...I don't think it's strange to be drawn to Jesus as a figure who provides ethical inspiration. I think it's cool that He means that to you, even if you're (just) a Deist.

I'm convinced that Jesus taught a way of life rather than a moral or ethical code which provides for check boxes to provide a method of 'scoring' one's life. Jesus' teachings raised the bar much higher spiritually than something like 'The Law' that Jews follow.

In a way, I think I agree. But then the question might come up, 'Does Jesus want us to live a specific lifestyle, or will any variation of what He's spoken about do?"

When one reads just Jesus' direct teachings...which, after all, is all the Apostles had...one sees a lifestyle being taught. Every action, every thought, everything one does should be done with just one idea...would -I- want someone else to behave that way towards me.

...I think the Golden Rule is a good place to start. It shows that on some level, the person who contemplates this rule has some kind of empathy for the feelings of other people, even if the rule seems to be focused on one's self.

If I would not like to have someone accost me on the street and yell at me for being different then I shouldn't do that to others. If I wouldn't like to be paid less than I was worth, then I shouldn't pay others less than they are worth. If I would like it if someone held the door open for me when my hands are full, -I- should do that for others. If I would like to have someone give me a lift up, then I should reach out and lift up others.

These are all good points, zephcom.

It's a lifestyle. It is not a check list. It is a standard of ethics which does not have a list of does and don'ts. One need only answer one question...Is my behavior loving towards others? If the answer is yes, then...maybe if that Kingdom Jesus talks about is real...my treasure chest will have something in it when I get there.

I agree; the moral set that Jesus commands us to live by isn't a checklist, it is a lifestyle. However, even those of us who recognize that Jesus wants us to live a particular lifestyle by expressing care, compassion, love, mercy, and so on, have to wake up on some days and realize..............we've failed to fully live the lifestyle that Jesus teaches us to live.

 

[zephcom]

...I don't think it's strange to be drawn to Jesus as a figure who provides ethical inspiration. I think it's cool that He means that to you, even if you're (just) a Deist.

In a way, I think I agree. But then the question might come up, 'Does Jesus want us to live a specific lifestyle, or will any variation of what He's spoken about do?"

...I think the Golden Rule is a good place to start. It shows that on some level, the person who contemplates this rule has some kind of empathy for the feelings of other people, even if the rule seems to be focused on one's self.

These are all good points, zephcom.

I agree; the moral set that Jesus commands us to live by isn't a checklist, it is a lifestyle. However, even those of us who recognize that Jesus wants us to live a particular lifestyle by expressing care, compassion, love, mercy, and so on, have to wake up on some days and realize..............we failed to fully live the lifestyle that Jesus teaches us to live.

I think it is a specific lifestyle. Jesus talks about that lifestyle by giving examples. His Sermon on the Mount is loaded with examples. His parables are loaded with examples. But I don't see Him saying that one is finished if one just takes on a handful of the examples. That would imply a checklist for righteousness.

When He was pressed for summation of His teaching it came down to just two things: Love God with all your heart and soul and love others like you love yourself.

The Golden Rule is not just the place to start, it is the sole basis for a successful life on this planet. If the Golden Rule were the ONLY rule Christians followed, America would not be in the mess it is today.

Finally, I think many people dwell far too much on their failures and far too little on how to learn and grow spiritually from their failures. One of the good things about being a Deist is that I can explore other thoughts and concepts about -why- life on this planet is like it is. I'm not shackled to a religious dogma.

If we are to assume Jesus is right raise the bar on spirituality, then it would only follow that learning and growing is involved. Achieving righteousness under the Jewish Law meant having a check mark on each rule that applied to you. Achieving righteousness under the higher level of spirituality that Jesus taught means one has to strive to reach that higher level. That presumes one will encounter failure. If one doesn't fail, one isn't trying.

It is like going to school. Each year of education comes with new information, new concepts and new opportunities to fail. No one gets everything right the first time. But through practice and perseverance one's level of education moves upward.

Following Jesus' teachings are the same thing. Failure is expected, even required, if one is to learn this new level of spirituality. Failure is the stepping stone for learning and growing in one's spiritual life.

That is why I was unable to answer the survey. I don't judge my success in life by counting my wins and losses. I judge my life on how instinctively I apply Jesus' teachings. It is like math, at first I had to work hard to understand how to add and subtract. Now I do it instinctively.