Your level of Ethical and Moral Integrity

[2PhiloVoid]

I think it is a specific lifestyle. Jesus talks about that lifestyle by giving examples. His Sermon on the Mount is loaded with examples. His parables are loaded with examples. But I don't see Him saying that one is finished if one just takes on a handful of the examples. That would imply a checklist for righteousness.

When He was pressed for summation of His teaching it came down to just two things: Love God with all your heart and soul and love others like you love yourself.

The Golden Rule is not just the place to start, it is the sole basis for a successful life on this planet. If the Golden Rule were the ONLY rule Christians followed, America would not be in the mess it is today.

Finally, I think many people dwell far too much on their failures and far too little on how to learn and grow spiritually from their failures. One of the good things about being a Deist is that I can explore other thoughts and concepts about -why- life on this planet is like it is. I'm not shackled to a religious dogma.

If we are to assume Jesus is right raise the bar on spirituality, then it would only follow that learning and growing is involved. Achieving righteousness under the Jewish Law meant having a check mark on each rule that applied to you. Achieving righteousness under the higher level of spirituality that Jesus taught means one has to strive to reach that higher level. That presumes one will encounter failure. If one doesn't fail, one isn't trying.

It is like going to school. Each year of education comes with new information, new concepts and new opportunities to fail. No one gets everything right the first time. But through practice and perseverance one's level of education moves upward.

Following Jesus' teachings are the same thing. Failure is expected, even required, if one is to learn this new level of spirituality. Failure is the stepping stone for learning and growing in one's spiritual life.

That is why I was unable to answer the survey. I don't judge my success in life by counting my wins and losses. I judge my life on how instinctively I apply Jesus' teachings. It is like math, at first I had to work hard to understand how to add and subtract. Now I do it instinctively.

I think I can agree with some of what you've said above. However, in your adaptation of Jesus' teaching, being that it isn't appropriated just quite in the Christian way, and you don't "count" your failures, what do you do when another person comes to you and says, "You're a hypocrite! You're not living the lifestyle that you've said that you try to live!" Do you "count" those comments as possible indicators of moral failure as they roll in from other people, or just shrug them off and go on your own way without another conscious moment to reflect upon them otherwise?

I'm just wondering about the apparent possibility for a conflict between our recognition that we're indeed living the lifestyle and essentially doing what's "right" when there may remain other people who stand in criticism of our own perceptions, even from those who have a similar or the same central moral focus (such as Jesus, or whatever other figure or set of moral tenets).

Lastly, I'm not convinced it directly follows that a person's recognition for how he/she has failed to live up to the ethical scheme that he/she ideally holds also means that he/she has in fact been trying all that hard to actually live that ethical ideal, especially if we think of our moral exertions as a dynamic on a scaled continuum (as is reflected somewhat by the poll in my OP).

 

[zephcom]

I think I can agree with some of what you've said above. However, in your adaptation of Jesus' teaching, being that it isn't appropriated just quite in the Christian way, and you don't "count" your failures, what do you do when another person comes to you and says, "You're a hypocrite! You're not living the lifestyle that you've said that you try to live!" Do you "count" those comments as possible indicators of moral failure as they roll in from other people, or just shrug them off and go on your own way without another conscious moment to reflect upon them otherwise?

I'm just wondering about the apparent possibility for a conflict between our recognition that we're indeed living the lifestyle and essentially doing what's "right" when there may remain other people who stand in criticism of our own perceptions, even from those who have a similar or the same central moral focus (such as Jesus, or whatever other figure or set of moral tenets).

Lastly, I'm not convinced it directly follows that a person's recognition for how he/she has failed to live up to the ethical scheme that he/she ideally holds also means that he/she has in fact been trying all that hard to actually live that ethical ideal, especially if we think of our moral exertions as a dynamic on a scaled continuum (as is reflected somewhat by the poll in my OP).

I reflect on all comments about me, good or bad. Life -is- for learning and growing. Just like math, one has to recognize failure if one is to chart a course toward success. If they are right about me, I admit it. Then I try to not make that mistake again. As with all learning and growing, that doesn't mean I won't make that mistake again, but my efforts are geared to not making it again.

To be honest though, I rarely face that situation. I think that is because one of the ways to be loving toward others is to not insist that others view me as superior. I don't try to pass laws to force others to behave like me, I don't tell others they need to be like me and I don't use my God as a hammer to change others.

Charges of hypocrisy are usually the result of one attempting to model themselves as superior. Outside of forums like this, I rarely talk about how I view spirituality.

Living the lifestyle of Jesus largely means one is not attracting attention to oneself by presuming to be better than others. In fact, one of Jesus' teachings is that if one is to become the leader of all in the Kingdom, one MUST first be a servant to all in this life.

Lastly, each person going through a life in the physical realm gets out of it just as much as they put into it. They learn and grow on their own schedule. I know how I do it. I am only responsible for how I do it. I'm happy to talk about how I do it, but I don't expect or demand anyone else to agree with me.

I just don't see any advantage to counting my failures when the goal is to learn and grow with my successes. Failures are important to recognize, but they are only stepping stones along the path through a life in the physical realm. I would rather look forwards to the goal, than backwards to where I started from.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I reflect on all comments about me, good or bad. Life -is- for learning and growing. Just like math, one has to recognize failure if one is to chart a course toward success. If they are right about me, I admit it. Then I try to not make that mistake again. As with all learning and growing, that doesn't mean I won't make that mistake again, but my efforts are geared to not making it again.

To be honest though, I rarely face that situation. I think that is because one of the ways to be loving toward others is to not insist that others view me as superior. I don't try to pass laws to force others to behave like me, I don't tell others they need to be like me and I don't use my God as a hammer to change others.

Charges of hypocrisy are usually the result of one attempting to model themselves as superior. Outside of forums like this, I rarely talk about how I view spirituality.

Living the lifestyle of Jesus largely means one is not attracting attention to oneself by presuming to be better than others. In fact, one of Jesus' teachings is that if one is to become the leader of all in the Kingdom, one MUST first be a servant to all in this life.

Lastly, each person going through a life in the physical realm gets out of it just as much as they put into it. They learn and grow on their own schedule. I know how I do it. I am only responsible for how I do it. I'm happy to talk about how I do it, but I don't expect or demand anyone else to agree with me.

I just don't see any advantage to counting my failures when the goal is to learn and grow with my successes. Failures are important to recognize, but they are only stepping stones along the path through a life in the physical realm. I would rather look forwards to the goal, than backwards to where I started from.

Ok, Zephcom. I think I very much agree with you on the points you've made regarding just what our attempts to live the lifestyle of Jesus "mean" for each one of us who, in some way, hold Him as our ethical ideal. I also agree that it does seem that Jesus is more concerned with our entering into a set of healthy relationships with other people and with Him, and these relationships are more characterized by progressive moral growth rather than simply an individual act of climbing to the summit of Mt. Morality.

From what you've said, it sounds like you have a healthy respect for other people as well as for yourself, and this sense of respect comes as an outgrowth of your adherence to Jesus as a focal point for living life. And I can much appreciate this perspective. Our personal moral failures can be stepping stones and opportunities for moral growth rather than as being simply seen, perhaps, as just "ball and chain" appendages we'd like to cut off and throw away.

So, I'm glad you felt like sharing more with us about how you conceptualize and apply the moral truths for living life which you feel you obtain from your central moral core. Thank you for being willing to elaborate on all of this. Your's is definitely one perspective that can serve as something for all of us to think about further.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[zephcom]

Ok, Zephcom. I think I very much agree with you on the points you've made regarding just what our attempts to live the lifestyle of Jesus "means" for each one of us who, in some way, hold Him as our ethical ideal. I also agree that it does seem that Jesus is more concerned with our entering into a set of healthy relationships with other people and with Him which are more characterized by progressive moral growth rather than simply an individual act of climbing to the summit of Mt. Morality.

From what you've said, it sounds like you have a healthy respect for other people as well as for yourself, and this sense of respect comes as an outgrowth of your adherence to Jesus as a focal point for living life. And I can much appreciate this perspective. Our personal moral failures can be stepping stones for further moral growth rather than as being simply seen, perhaps, as just "ball and chain" appendages we'd like to cut off and throw away.

So, I'm glad you felt like sharing some more with us about how you conceptualize and apply the moral truths for living life that you feel you obtain from your central moral core. Thank you for being willing to elaborate some on all of this. It definitely is one perspective that can serve as something for us to think about.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Peace to you also. I enjoyed the conversation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It seems it may be appropriate, ( like when you see someone standing in the road and traffic is coming give a warning? )
to repeat Yahweh's Warning when there may be a lot of ungodly speech or ungodly advice coming soon (already in places) >>
1 John 4 MSG


1 My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

In reading this, I'm just wondering what it is you're implying here?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When doing it right becomes your lifestyle you really don't have to think about it very much. There are no moral dilemmas.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I believe integrity equals obeying the Lord's commandments. How can one not obey them and claim they have integrity?

I suppose that in within the Christian scheme of ethics and morality, obedience is a quintessential part of our integrity, isn't it?

The world, which is ruled by Satan, might claim otherwise, but the world doesn't have the last say.

...y'know, that really is a good thing to be reminded of. Thanks for that, Dreadnought!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

..... I do have to say that I think it's really interesting (and kind of cool) that so far no one has chosen the very last option listed in the poll in the OP! I'm just waiting for that "one" outlier to show up......... but hopefully, I'll be waiting a very long time.

 

[quatona]

..... I do have to say that I think it's really interesting (and kind of cool) that so far no one has chosen the very last option listed in the poll in the OP! I'm just waiting for that "one" outlier to show up.........

You´re welcome!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You´re welcome!

Oh, I suppose it had to be you, quatona! Hey, how ya' doing! "Long time no see," as we say sometimes in the U.S. I hope things are going well for you, and thanks for adding your special touch to the poll results.

 

[quatona]

Oh, I suppose it had to be you, quatona! Hey, how ya' doing! "Long time no see," as we say sometimes in the U.S. I hope things are going well for you, and thanks for adding your special touch to the poll results.

Yeah, I haven´t been here in more than half a year. Life has been thrilling and challenging (even though not exactly convenient) in the meantime.
It was nice to find a post from yours of all on top of the forum.
I hope you are well, too!