LDS What happens to ex-Mormon men?

[Rescued One]

Doctrine and Covenants 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng



Edited to add bold for emphasis.

 

[tampasteve]

I doubt many ex-LDS men are concerned any longer with what the D&C has to say on the matter.....

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I doubt many ex-LDS men are concerned any longer with what the D&C has to say on the matter.....

That is my experience as well. In fact, the vast majority of ex-LDS folks (men or women) usually become staunch atheists.

 

[tampasteve]

I'm not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men.

Of course they do not consider them obsolete if they are LDS, but if they are ex-LDS then they likely do not believe the scriptures are valid. The title of this thread is about "ex-Mormon men", so I took it to understand that they are no longer believers in LDS theology, so likely would not believe what the D&C had to say on the matter, or others.

*Edit* I see you changed your response to me so out of courtesy I adjusted the "quote" portion of my (this) post. Now my statements look a little odd, none the less I think it still works. But if you are not "here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men" then the title of the thread does not really make sense. What are you trying to discuss?

 

[Rescued One]

That is my experience as well. In fact, the vast majority of ex-LDS folks (men or women) usually become staunch atheists.

You don't know the vast majority of ex-LDS.

I've never met an ex-Mormon atheist. Everyone I've known who left Mormonism attend various churches.

 

[Jane_Doe]

You don't know the vast majority of ex-LDS.

I've never met an ex-Mormon atheist. Everyone I've known who left Mormonism attend various churches.

The number you know are the small minority.

Stastical surveys of thousands of ex-LDS point to ~50% become atheist very anti-religion and ~30% become atheist with a "no thank you" attitude to faith. It's less <10% of ex-LDS women join a Creedal Christian faith, and <5% of ex-LDS men join a Creedal Christian faith.

 

[dzheremi]

The number you know are the small minority.

Stastical surveys of thousands of ex-LDS point to ~50% become atheist very anti-religion and ~30% become atheist with a "no thank you" attitude to faith. It's less <10% of ex-LDS women join a Creedal Christian faith, and <5% of ex-LDS men join a Creedal Christian faith.

There is an interesting two-part discussion on "Christianity after Mormonism" on the YouTube channel Mormonstories (if I'm not mistaken, it's run by ex-Mormon John Dehlin) which might shed some light on why those numbers are as low as they are. It's been a while since I watched it (it's quite a commitment, time-wise), but I remember it being very enlightening, in terms of getting at how ex-Mormons think about religion as a result of their experience in the LDS Church.

I have not had the experience with ex-LDS people, but I have friends who are ex-Christians, ex-Muslims, and ex-Nation of Islam and it seems from what I can gather from that tiny sample it is very common for those who leave a religion or group to be a bit burnt out on things, to the point where they really don't want to join another. Makes sense to me, even if that was not my experience. (Granted, I did have a good 10 years in there where I had no religion, so maybe it just takes some people longer to recover.)

 

[Rescued One]

The number you know are the small minority.

Stastical surveys of thousands of ex-LDS point to ~50% become atheist very anti-religion and ~30% become atheist with a "no thank you" attitude to faith. It's less <10% of ex-LDS women join a Creedal Christian faith, and <5% of ex-LDS men join a Creedal Christian faith.

I'm not claiming that most ex-Mormons become Christians nor am I claiming that most ex-Mormons become atheists.

Even a survey doesn't tell us what every ex-Mormon believes.

 

[Rescued One]

Of course they do not consider them obsolete if they are LDS, but if they are ex-LDS then they likely do not believe the scriptures are valid. The title of this thread is about "ex-Mormon men", so I took it to understand that they are no longer believers in LDS theology, so likely would not believe what the D&C had to say on the matter, or others.

*Edit* I see you changed your response to me so out of courtesy I adjusted the "quote" portion of my (this) post. Now my statements look a little odd, none the less I think it still works. But if you are not "here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men" then the title of the thread does not really make sense. What are you trying to discuss?

The Mormon view of men who leave Mormonism. My post is clear.

 

[CodyFaith]

Well that's a pretty sure means of control. Leave and be cursed forever. A very effective means to keep your numbers in place.

Good thing the real Jesus hears hearts of men and hears our intents and thoughts and sees those who dilligently seek him.

Those who believe in Jesus and trust his atonement for their sins, past, present and future, will be saved and forever adopted and loved as children. Jesus came to save those in chains of fear and the oppressed and set them free.

 

[cfyahoo08]

Doctrine and Covenants 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

View attachment 233566

Edited to add bold for emphasis.

It seems to be in line with this : Matthew 12:31

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

and I think your emphisis is placed in the wrong place :

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

In addition I read the link that you provided and read the verses before and after it is VERY important to read things in the context they were intended. Taking things out of context is intellectually dishonest. The following verse states :

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

So it sounds like there was a group of individual there he was speaking specifically to those individuals. maybe some more study might be in order, but seems like an unfair assessment, I think it is more important to understand than to be understood oft times.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Doctrine and Covenants 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

View attachment 233566

Edited to add bold for emphasis.

I wonder how many LDS men stay in the church who would honestly rather leave due to the pressures they feel from reading and believing scriptures like these (amongst other things as well), it really is very strong language.

 

[tampasteve]

I'm not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men.

The Mormon view of men who leave Mormonism. My post is clear.

You are "not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men" but the you want the view of "men who leave Mormonism"? No, the point of the thread is not clear in that regard.

The thread seems to have been started to show that according to LDS scriptures, ex-LDS men do not have forgiveness according to the D&C. I stated that ex-LDS men do not likely care what the D&C says, so in that regard why would it matter what the LDS scriptures say on the matter?

 

[CodyFaith]

You are "not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men" but the you want the view of "men who leave Mormonism"? No, the point of the thread is not clear in that regard.

The thread seems to have been started to show that according to LDS scriptures, ex-LDS men do not have forgiveness according to the D&C. I stated that ex-LDS men do not likely care what the D&C says, so in that regard why would it matter what the LDS scriptures say on the matter?

I usually don't jump in these things, but I feel like she is just showing Christians what dogma the LDS church teaches, in light and in secret. She creates threads all the time about the LDS, threads that Mormons are welcome to come in and debate with her. She's ex LDS.
So it's not directed towards ex lds men at all.

 

[Rescued One]

You are "not here to discuss the thoughts of ex-Mormon men" but the you want the view of "men who leave Mormonism"? No, the point of the thread is not clear in that regard.

No, I said I want to discuss the Mormon view of men who leave Mormonism.

The thread seems to have been started to show that according to LDS scriptures, ex-LDS men do not have forgiveness according to the D&C. I stated that ex-LDS men do not likely care what the D&C says, so in that regard why would it matter what the LDS scriptures say on the matter?

We are here to debate Mormonism. Are you here for that purpose or are you here to disrupt our posts???

 

[Rescued One]

I wonder how many LDS men stay in the church who would honestly rather leave due to the pressures they feel from reading and believing scriptures like these (amongst other things as well), it really is very strong language.

I agree. And on several topics the Mormon scriptures use very harsh words against Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants:

Book of Mormon, Moroni 8
14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book[Bible], which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

 

[Rescued One]

It seems to be in line with this : Matthew 12:31

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

and I think your emphisis is placed in the wrong place :

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

In addition I read the link that you provided and read the verses before and after it is VERY important to read things in the context they were intended. Taking things out of context is intellectually dishonest. The following verse states :

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

So it sounds like there was a group of individual there he was speaking specifically to those individuals. maybe some more study might be in order, but seems like an unfair assessment, I think it is more important to understand than to be understood oft times.

The reason I give links is so that people can use them. If you consider a verse out of context, all verses that aren't the entire book are out of context.

 

[tampasteve]

No, I said I want to discuss the Mormon view of men who leave Mormonism.

Actually you did not say that, until now. The OP simply had a copy and link to the D&C and the title did not make it clear. Thanks for clearing it up

We are here to debate Mormonism. Are you here for that purpose or are you here to disrupt our posts???

No, I am not here to disrupt anything, I simply was trying to ascertain what the thread was about and the point of it as it was not clear at the start - which you have clarified now. Thank you.


All that said, if I were LDS I would not have a problem with the verses quoted. If I believed in the theology then that is stated then I would not mind as the Priesthood is an important part of the church and should not be taken lightly. If I were ex-LDS then I would not care what the D&C has to say on the matter.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I wonder how many LDS men stay in the church who would honestly rather leave due to the pressures they feel from reading and believing scriptures like these (amongst other things as well), it really is very strong language.

One could ask the same question of Protestant men, or Catholic men, or Orthodox men, etc.

Honestly, such things are super hard to quantify.