My Kidney Challenge

[FireDragon76]

A matter of personal bodily autonomy, unless the organ in question is a uterus.

I'm unsure what your point is.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Then I am assuming that you will go to the hospital tomorrow and ask that they take one of your kidneys so that you can donate it to someone who needs it.

If I was asked to do it. I would make an appointment to do it. But since I have a full time job. I can't just go the hospital today and have them yank a kidney out of me.

 

[Kylie]

According to Atheistic world view there are no moral values , we are vessels of atoms which produce this body and are just atoms which evolved from hydrogen towards everything else as time has passed , therefore we can only observe world and act as result of chemicals reacting in our brains giving response to our brain which gives orders to our muscles ect.

Because there is no free will , nor good or bad according to that world view you could force that woman to bear a child or steal somebody kidney to make somebody else survive as you choose . It's up to you.
For the one being raped it feels bad , but for the one who is raping it feels good . There are no bad or wrong in that world view . There is no God to give universal laws or morality . There is no future because when we die we just stop existing . Nobody is punished or rewrded for anything . There is no justice if you get away with what you consider was "bad" . As we observe our universe , everything is spreading in all directions and getting away from each other . Universe is always expanding which will result in cold death , cold because there will be no life due to all stars burning out and all matter so separate it cannot react with anything .

So according to that world view you can do anything to be honest .
Everything you say is pointless anyways or is your opinion , so i mine when I say something . Truth does not exist so why are you looking for it ? To make you feel better because you were right according to your presuppositions ? I never understood why atheists are asking such questions outside thier world view and judging the answers according to thier world view it's so foolish ...

Did you learn what atheists think in church? Because everything you said here is so completely wrong. When you try attacking a strawman like this, you just make a fool out of yourself.

 

[Kylie]

If I was asked to do it. I would make an appointment to do it. But since I have a full time job. I can't just go the hospital today and have them yank a kidney out of me.

On your next day off then.

 

[Chinchilla]

Did you learn what atheists think in church? Because everything you said here is so completely wrong. When you try attacking a strawman like this, you just make a fool out of yourself.

Can you disprove that everything I said is wrong ? Or is it wrong according to you and your opinion ?

 

[Kylie]

Can you disprove that everything I said is wrong ? Or is it wrong according to you and your opinion ?

My opinion does completely disprove everything you said, because what you said was your opinion on the atheistic viewpoint, and as an atheist I can tell you that what you said is most certainly NOT my viewpoint!

 

[Chinchilla]

My opinion does completely disprove everything you said, because what you said was your opinion on the atheistic viewpoint, and as an atheist I can tell you that what you said is most certainly NOT my viewpoint!

I can't read your mind could you give me your opinion or will you keep neglecting it because you have something to hide ?

 

[Kylie]

I can't read your mind could you give me your opinion or will you keep neglecting it because you have something to hide ?

Oh cut it out. You posted what you thought was the atheistic viewpoint (which is actually just propaganda fed to you by people who are intent on making atheism look foolish) and then when I - an atheist - tell you that it's wrong, you act as though you know the atheistic viewpoint better than an atheist!

And now you accuse me of having something to hide!

So far, you're the one who has made strawman attacks against atheism, and you are the one who has accused me of having something to hide! All I've done is say that your claims are wrong. So you don't get to act like the wronged party here.

So how about, instead of telling an atheist what her position is supposed to be (when, let's face it, you would have no idea at all), why don't you try ASKING POLITELY?

 

[Chinchilla]

Oh cut it out. You posted what you thought was the atheistic viewpoint (which is actually just propaganda fed to you by people who are intent on making atheism look foolish) and then when I - an atheist - tell you that it's wrong, you act as though you know the atheistic viewpoint better than an atheist!

And now you accuse me of having something to hide!

So far, you're the one who has made strawman attacks against atheism, and you are the one who has accused me of having something to hide! All I've done is say that your claims are wrong. So you don't get to act like the wronged party here.

So how about, instead of telling an atheist what her position is supposed to be (when, let's face it, you would have no idea at all), why don't you try ASKING POLITELY?

You did not tell me what's wrong . You said that everything I told was a Lie . Don't you believe that universe is expanding and that everything evolved from hydrogen on atomic scale ? If so I would like to hear your theory/opinion about it , if not then why did you Lie about saying that everything I said was a Lie ?

 

[Strathos]

You did not tell me what's wrong . You said that everything I told was a Lie . Don't you believe that universe is expanding and that everything evolved from hydrogen on atomic scale ? If so I would like to hear your theory/opinion about it , if not then why did you Lie about saying that everything I said was a Lie ?

Any atheist who believes that atoms evolve is scientifically ignorant.

 

[Kylie]

You did not tell me what's wrong . You said that everything I told was a Lie . Don't you believe that universe is expanding and that everything evolved from hydrogen on atomic scale ? If so I would like to hear your theory/opinion about it , if not then why did you Lie about saying that everything I said was a Lie ?

Oh get over yourself.

I said that your claims about what atheists believe was wrong.

You said, "Atheists believe A, B and C." I told you that claim was wrong.

Specifically, you made the claim that atheists have no morals, you made the claim that atheists do not believe we have free will, you made the claim that atheists do not believe in good or bad, you made the claim that atheists believe it is okay to force people to give up their organs, you made the claim that atheists believe rape is acceptable, you made the claim that there is no motivation to bring people to justice when they do wrong, you made the claim that atheists believe we can do whatever we like with no repercussions, and you made the claim that atheists do not believe that truth exists.

I am an atheist, and I have morals.
I am an atheist, and I believe I have free will.
I am an atheist, and I believe in good and bad.
I am an atheist, and I believe that no one should be forced to give up their bodily autonomy.
I am an atheist, and I believe that rape is NEVER acceptable.
I am an atheist, and I believe that people who cause harm should be brought to justice.
I am an atheist, and I believe that there are repercussions to our actions.
I am an atheist, and I believe that there are things which are objectively true.

So you have misrepresented what atheists believe. Like I said, it was probably because you were told this by someone who didn't want you to know what atheists are really like.

And yet you decide to get upset when I try to tell you what the atheist position is? Really? You think that you know more about atheism than I do? I've been an atheist longer than you have been alive.

So you have a choice. You can continue spouting your propaganda about atheists, in which case we have nothing more to discuss because you aren't interested in learning, you are only interested in supporting your preconceived beliefs.

OR

You can show that you actually want to learn, even if it means that you have to abandon some opinions you currently hold, and ASK ME what atheists actually believe rather than telling me what you have been told I believe.

So, which is it?

 

[Lily of Valleys]

Wow, you think it's nine months inconvenience? And after that, your life goes back to the way it was before?

Oh, wait a while until I finish laughing!

"9 months of inconvenience" was referring to the scenario you raised: "to spend nine months using her body for something she doesn't want it used for".

Besides, there is the word "If" in my sentence. My point was to choose the lesser of two evils depending on individual circumstances.

 

[the iconoclast]

So why do pro-lifers think they have the right to make a woman remain pregnant if she doesn't want to be pregnant?

Hey hey kylie

Well the state of being pregnant is having a child or young developing in the uterus. It would be a premeditated killing of one human being by another, is it not?

Cheers

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey kylie

Well the state of being pregnant is having a child or young developing in the uterus. It would be a premeditated killing of one human being by another, is it not?

Cheers

If I plant a seed, then dig it up and crush it, am I guilty of destroying a tree?

 

[the iconoclast]

If I plant a seed, then dig it up and crush it, am I guilty of destroying a tree?

Hey hey.

This seed we speak of. Has this seed entered germination?

What does a seed become?

Cheers you winner.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

A matter of personal bodily autonomy, unless the organ in question is a uterus.

Someone can have the opinion that body autonomy isn't absolute, in particular when one person's actions impact another.

If Sally needs a kidney because Bill poisoned her, then you can make the case that Bill, as the responsible party for the situation, should be required to give up a kidney in return, especially if he is the only possible match.

Similarly, you can make the case that a woman understands the assumption of risk involved in having sex, and therefore is responsible for the situation where another "person" is dependent on them for their survival. Because she's the only possible "match", she should be required to carry the fetus to term.

Of course, if you don't believe a fetus is a person, then that argument goes out the window. But is shows the inherent flaw in the body autonomy argument.

 

[PsychoSarah]

According to Atheistic world view there are no moral values

Nah, moral values exist as a human construct that we find useful for maintaining our societies. The only common "atheistic" view on morals that I know of is the idea that morality is subjective, but that's not an idea exclusive to atheists in the slightest.

, we are vessels of atoms which produce this body and are just atoms which evolved from hydrogen towards everything else as time has passed

Usually poetically phrased as "stardust". One can make anything sound bad through rewording, here's how I do it with the concept of humans being created by a deity: "humans were made from dust to be worship slaves to a deity that wanted to give them the free will not to be worship slaves but will punish any that choose to use their free will".

, therefore we can only observe world and act as result of chemicals reacting in our brains giving response to our brain which gives orders to our muscles ect.

-_- show me a person who exhibits behaviors that don't originate in the brain without them being severely ill. Why not consider the brain to be the physical embodiment of the soul, seeing as it is demonstrably the seat of consciousness in our mortal bodies?

Because there is no free will

Plenty of atheists believe in free will (me included), while plenty of theists don't believe in free will (if I recall correctly, Calvinists don't).

, nor good or bad according to that world view you could force that woman to bear a child or steal somebody kidney to make somebody else survive as you choose. It's up to you.

Nah, because that goes against my personal moral compass as well as that of society as a whole. I neither want to do such a thing, nor would society stand for me doing it. At least, the society in which I live wouldn't.

For the one being raped it feels bad , but for the one who is raping it feels good. There are no bad or wrong in that world view.

Gosh, how old do you have to be to do the space before the period thing? I keep feeling the need to fix it. Atheism doesn't establish a morality any more than theism in general does. I bet you wear clothing of mixed fabrics and eat pork and don't view eating lobster as an abomination, so why pretend you get your morality from the Bible? I sure hope you don't view slavery as moral, despite the fact that the Bible endorses it.

There is no God to give universal laws or morality .

The Christian god has a weird morality that I am pretty sure not a single modern person follows. I can't fathom a single reason to view tattoos as evil.

There is no future because when we die we just stop existing .

Doesn't mean we can't enjoy our short lives while they last or make the future better for the people born after we die. Why does it all have to be about YOU?

Nobody is punished or rewrded for anything .

Try opening the door for people rather than just walking through every chance you get and see if that holds up. Kindness is contagious, and smiles are not worthless. And yes, the world isn't inherently fair, so why not make it better as much as you can?

There is no justice if you get away with what you consider was "bad" . As we observe our universe , everything is spreading in all directions and getting away from each other . Universe is always expanding which will result in cold death , cold because there will be no life due to all stars burning out and all matter so separate it cannot react with anything .

It's not comforting, but it is also such a long way off that we are better off just not worrying about what is completely outside of our control in that matter. Plus, are you forgetting that the bible also says that everything will end some day?

So according to that world view you can do anything to be honest .

Nah, because my worldview isn't dictated by extreme nihilism. If this is what you would be like as an atheist, please, for the sake of everyone else, never stop being a theist.

Everything you say is pointless anyways or is your opinion , so i mine when I say something . Truth does not exist so why are you looking for it ?

-_- not sure why you think things can't be true without a deity existing. For example, my favorite color is purple, that's a true statement, how would it be any less true depending on if a deity exists or not?

To make you feel better because you were right according to your presuppositions ? I never understood why atheists are asking such questions outside thier world view and judging the answers according to thier world view it's so foolish ...

I don't understand how you manage to misspell "their" twice. It's such a basic word in the English language.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Someone can have the opinion that body autonomy isn't absolute, in particular when one person's actions impact another.

If Sally needs a kidney because Bill poisoned her, then you can make the case that Bill, as the responsible party for the situation, should be required to give up a kidney in return, especially if he is the only possible match.

Similarly, you can make the case that a woman understands the assumption of risk involved in having sex, and therefore is responsible for the situation where another "person" is dependent on them for their survival. Because she's the only possible "match", she should be required to carry the fetus to term.

Of course, if you don't believe a fetus is a person, then that argument goes out the window. But is shows the inherent flaw in the body autonomy argument.

Personally, I think viewing abortion from a moral standpoint of the act itself detracts from more constructive actions, such as determining the reasons why people end up wanting abortions and eliminating those social problems. It doesn't matter if abortion is moral or legal if people willingly decide not to explore that option. I'm pro choice and I think it would be great if abortions became a thing of the past in this manner. As it stands currently, however, I think making the practice illegal would ultimately increase suffering and death, not reduce them.

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey.

This seed we speak of. Has this seed entered germination?

What does a seed become?

Cheers you winner.

Totally irrelevant. It is a fertilized seed. That is all you need to know.

 

[Kylie]

Someone can have the opinion that body autonomy isn't absolute, in particular when one person's actions impact another.

If Sally needs a kidney because Bill poisoned her, then you can make the case that Bill, as the responsible party for the situation, should be required to give up a kidney in return, especially if he is the only possible match.

And what if Bill DIDN'T poison her, but was still the only possible match? Should he be required to give up his kidney anyway?

Similarly, you can make the case that a woman understands the assumption of risk involved in having sex, and therefore is responsible for the situation where another "person" is dependent on them for their survival. Because she's the only possible "match", she should be required to carry the fetus to term.

Ah yes, the "She should have known what she was getting into when she decided to have sex" argument.

What about rape? What about failed birth control?

Of course, if you don't believe a fetus is a person, then that argument goes out the window. But is shows the inherent flaw in the body autonomy argument.

I don't believe that a fertilized egg is a person. I don't believe a cluster of cells is a person.