OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

[BobRyan]

In the end, it is everyone’s responsibility to “rightly divide the word of truth” for themselves

True and I appreciate your making their job so easy and making your position in contrast to mine - so clear.

 

[EmSw]

Hi Em, I'm afraid I'm going to have to answer you with more questions.

1. Both v37 and v44 above use the phrase "come to Me". It's clear that coming to Christ is 'conditioned' upon the Father's drawing of/granting permission to the individual first (v's 44, 65 .. and that ALL who are so drawn/given permission to come to Christ by the Father WILL do so and be saved v37-40), but I'm not sure why you are saying this/what point you are making (?)

2. How does one "come to Christ" You designate as a "Christian" here at CF, so why are you asking me a question like that? (unless I am misunderstanding the question somehow??) How did 'you' "come to Christ"?​

Thanks!

--David

David, 'coming to Christ' is no different than 'coming to anybody'. No matter if you are called or not, you must be willing to 'come'. Then you must get off your back side and actually go. It's not a passive proposition.

Once you 'come to Him', then you must follow Him.

 

[amariselle]

Let's go back to that verse 7-11:

The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Paul in saying "and that is what some of you were" he was saying in regard to many horribly dark sins they had allowed the sanctification process to work in them and through them. He reminding them of who and what they are now In Christ that you're a different type of people on the Earth. When other sin type come up however they must work all of them things out of themselves as well by the power and grace of God. Keep in mind Paul said this to Christians who were already saved,

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8: 13,14

Well, it is interesting that the King James says “are”, present tense, not “were.”

 

[EmSw]

I commented on several verses, in context.

But you didn't touch on verse 21.

 

[amariselle]

True and I appreciate your making their job so easy and making your position in contrast to mine - so clear.

Have a wonderful evening!

 

[BobRyan]

I guess you once again missed the point. You pulled out verses from the middle of the chapter to “prove” salvation can be lost.

Indeed. And as we all know the writer of Hebrews put no chapter dividers at all in his text.

Quoting the entire book of Hebrews to make a point about vs 4-7 in chapter 6... is pointless as I am sure you would agree.

I merely point to the verses that make my point and that you appear to not want to discuss.

 

[amariselle]

But you didn't touch on verse 21.

Ultimately, it’s about context. And that requires careful study of surrounding verses.

 

[EmSw]

The God of the OT and the God of the NT are not two separate Gods. It is the same God. And Jesus was clear that He and the Father are one. (John 10:25-30, John 14:1-11)

Of course not.

So, is this speaking of Jesus?

Isaiah 45:21
Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me.

 

[amariselle]

Indeed. And as we all know the writer of Hebrews put no chapter dividers at all in his text.

Quoting the entire book of Hebrews to make a point about vs 4-7 in chapter 6... is pointless as I am sure you would agree.

I merely point to the verses that make my point and that you appear to not want to discuss.

I addressed every single verse in your OP. Not one proves your point that people can lose salvation. (A free gift, entirely undeserved that was never earned in the first place).

Let me ask you this: do you believe Jesus actually did enough to save us? Or is something more needed?

 

[EmSw]

Ultimately, it’s about context. And that requires careful study of surrounding verses.

Should we throw out verse 21, since it doesn't agree with you, context or not?

 

[amariselle]

So, is this speaking of Jesus?

Isaiah 45:21
Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me.

The Triune God, absolutely.

 

[amariselle]

Should we throw out verse 21, since it doesn't agree with you, context or not?

If you’re just going to make ridiculous assertions, I have no interest discussing this further.

 

[EmSw]

The Triune God, absolutely.

How do you get a triune God out of 'there is no other God besides me', and 'a just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me'? Are you saying there are two more besides Him?

 

[EmSw]

If you’re just going to make ridiculous assertions, I have no interest discussing this further.

I figured you wouldn't comment on verse 21. It puts your theology six feet under. You had better not discuss this with me any further. I have already shown you don't like verse 21, and not willing to comment on it.

 

[amariselle]

How do you get a triune God out of 'there is no other God besides me', and 'a just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me'? Are you saying there are two more besides Him?

Wait...you reject the Trinity? Please clarify. If that’s the case, then we really are never going to come to any kind of consensus. (And you may also want to review the forum rules)

 

[EmSw]

Wait...you reject the Trinity? Please clarify. If that’s the case, then we really are never going to come to any kind of consensus. (And you may also want to review the forum rules)

Wait, you calling the one and only God, three Gods?

Now, are you willing to comment on verse 21?

 

[amariselle]

I figured you wouldn't comment on verse 21. It puts your theology six feet under. You had better not discuss this with me any further. I have already shown you don't like verse 21, and not willing to comment on it.

Actually....I love the word of God. Thankfully you don’t get decide otherwise.

Just because someone believes they cannot lose their salvation (which they never deserved or earned to begin with) doesn’t mean you get to decide they don’t “like” Scripture.

God bless you.

 

[EmSw]

Actually....I love the word of God. Thankfully you don’t get decide otherwise.

Just because someone believes they cannot lose their salvation (which they never deserved or earned to begin with) doesn’t mean you get to decide they don’t “like” Scripture.

God bless you.

You are deciding for yourself that you don't like verse 21. You won't even say anything about it. What does it mean that God will not spare you?

 

[amariselle]

Wait, you calling the one and only God, three Gods?

Now, are you willing to comment on verse 21?

The “Trinity” is not three separate God’s.

Please go read the forum rules. Denying the Trinity is a violation of those rules.

As I said, if we don’t agree on that, which is a core doctrine of the faith, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[amariselle]

You are deciding for yourself that you don't like verse 21. You won't even say anything about it. What does it mean that God will not spare you?

I haven’t ignored any verses and I certainly don’t dislike any of them. I strive always to understand them in context.

Now, as we differ so vastly on core theology, it is time to move on.