Is the 6th seal about the destruction of Jerusalem?

[Douggg]

So when Jesus tells the women weeping for him, not weep for him, but for themselves and their children because the days are coming when they will say blessed are the barren and the mountains will fall on us, He really isn't talking to or about them? He's talking about women 2000+ years later?

I think both end times and first century. Since you believe that Jesus was crucified around 40 years before the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem - therefore he is talking about women 40 years later? Is that not what you believe?

How many of those women Jesus was speaking to, 40 years later at the destruction of Jerusalem, would have small children then?

But that is not the issue anyway, because in Revelation 6, sixth seal it is not women with children mentioned. It is evil men of the world saying to the mountains and rocks fall on us.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

[claninja]

Yes

So Jesus was lying then? Jesus directly told the women the days would come when they would say blessed are the barren and the mountains would fall on us.

But, according you, they never really did say those things.

 

[claninja]

Babylon is a spiritual name for Jerusalem just as Sodom,and Egypt are.

Revelation 18:24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God's holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth."

Tell me this.Can a prophet die outside of Jerusalem?

I agree with you, spiritually Jerusalem is called Babylon the great, Sodom and Eygpt. But that is not what I asked.

I asked was a nuke dropped on babylon? Did persia/medes drop a nuke on babylon to defeat them?

Isaiah 13:1,10,17
A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw: The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold.

 

[Kevin Snow]

So Jesus was lying then? Jesus directly told the women the days would come when they would say blessed are the barren and the mountains would fall on us.

But, according you, they never really did say those things.

Yes, the days will come indeed.

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. ~Hebrews 11:13

 

[claninja]

I think both end times and first century.

Dual fulfillment I assume?

Since you believe that Jesus was crucified around 40 years before the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem - therefore he is talking about women 40 years later? Is that not what you believe?

Jesus was talking directly to the large group that was following him, so yes, I believe it was about those in that generation. Otherwise if those things didn't happen to them, as jesus prophesied, jesus would be a false prophet.

But that is not the issue anyway, because in Revelation 6, sixth seal it is not women with children mentioned. It is evil men of the world saying to the mountains and rocks fall on us.

So only women will cry mountains fall on us in Jesus' prophecy, no men will? and in the dual fulfillment, only men will cry mountains fall us in the prophecy given in revelation, no women will?

 

[claninja]

Yes, the days will come indeed.

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. ~Hebrews 11:13

your side stepping the question. You quoted hebrews 11:13, which is about those who died in faith waiting for heaven.

I asked you if the weeping women Jesus prophesied too in luke 23 ever wept for themselves and for their children or ever said blessed be the barren and to the mountains, fall on us?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I agree with you, spiritually Jerusalem is called Babylon the great, Sodom and Eygpt. But that is not what I asked.

I asked was a nuke dropped on babylon? Did persia/medes drop a nuke on babylon to defeat them?

Isaiah 13:1,10,17
A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw: The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold.

Ancient Babylon was never destroyed.It was abandoned over time and fell into ruin.
The Medes today would love to destroy spiritual Babylon.But they dont destroy the city itself.
They will take the city,raping the women and ransacking the houses.
They dont nuke it.
Someone else nukes them after they have taken the city.

Zechariah 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

Three and a half days later.

I dont think he uses a large nuke in Jerusalem.Probably a tactical nuke in the old city.

 

[claninja]

How many of those women Jesus was speaking to, 40 years later at the destruction of Jerusalem, would have small children then?

As many that would be torn down because they did not recognize the time of God's visitation.

Luke 19:43-44
For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, YOU and YOUR CHILDREN within YOU And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

 

[claninja]

Ancient Babylon was never destroyed.It was abandoned over time and fell into ruin.
The Medes today would love to destroy spiritual Babylon.But they dont destroy the city itself.
They will take the city,raping the women and ransacking the houses.
They dont nuke it.
Someone else nukes them after they have taken the city.

Zechariah 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

Three and a half days later.

I dont think he uses a large nuke in Jerusalem.Probably a tactical nuke in the old city.

In around 539 BCE, persia invaded babylon.

It appears that you believe the apocalyptic language used in revelation describes the use of a nuke

This same type of apocalyptic language is used to Isaiah to describe the God's judgement against babylon. So why wasn't a nuke used against ancient babylon?

 

[Douggg]

So only women will cry mountains fall on us in Jesus' prophecy, no men will? and in the dual fulfillment, only men will cry mountains fall us in the prophecy given in revelation, no women will?

I gave you the verses. What does it say in this verse in the sixth seal say? It doesn't have anything to do with the first century.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

 

[shilohsfoal]

In around 539 BCE, persia invaded babylon.

It appears that you believe the apocalyptic language used in revelation describes the use of a nuke

This same type of apocalyptic language is used to Isaiah to describe the God's judgement against babylon. So why wasn't a nuke used against ancient babylon?

Because isaiah was not writing about ancient Babylon.
Ancient Babylon was not destroyed by the Medes.Even after Alexander the great ddefeated the Medes ,he lived there.
Jeremiah 51:11 Sharpen the arrows! Take up the shields! The LORD has aroused the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because His plan is aimed at Babylon to destroy her, for it is the vengeance of the LORD--vengeance for His temple.

This is not talking about ancient Babylon either.Its about Jerusalem.
The hadith and quran teaches they are to kill every Jew in Israel.Imam AlIi Khamenei has been,telling the world his intention all along.
They will attempt to kill every Israeli in israel beginning at Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and maidens, the women and children, but do not go near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

But its not the muslims who nuke Jerusalem.It all gets nuked after the overwhelming army has taken Jerusalem.

 

[claninja]

I gave you the verses. What does it say in this verse in the sixth seal say?

In the verses that you gave, it only mentions men: kings, rich men, great men, bond man, free man, etc....

So does that mean only men, and no women, will say to the mountains ‘fall on us’ on the great day of wrath?

It doesn't have anything to do with the first century.

It absolutely does. Luke 21 tells us that the destruction of Jerusalem fulfills the days of vengeance
22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luke 21:22 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:22 - English Standard Version
This is when pregnant and nursing women will be in distress
23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people.
Luke 21:23 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:23 - English Standard Version
And when the pregnant and nursing women say blessed are the barren and cry to the mountains ‘fall on us’
29 For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’
Luke 23:29-30 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 23:29-30 - English Standard Version
The days of vengeance, or day of wrath against this people, are fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. The unbelieving Jews are slaughtered and those surviving are lead captive to the nations.


So this has not happened yet? Jerusalem was not destroyed in the 1st century?

 

[claninja]

Because isaiah was not writing about ancient Babylon.
Ancient Babylon was not destroyed by the Medes.Even after Alexander the great ddefeated the Medes ,he lived there.
Jeremiah 51:11 Sharpen the arrows! Take up the shields! The LORD has aroused the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because His plan is aimed at Babylon to destroy her, for it is the vengeance of the LORD--vengeance for His temple.

This is not talking about ancient Babylon either.Its about Jerusalem.
The hadith and quran teaches they are to kill every Jew in Israel.Imam AlIi Khamenei has been,telling the world his intention all along.
They will attempt to kill every Israeli in israel beginning at Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and maidens, the women and children, but do not go near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

But its not the muslims who nuke Jerusalem.It all gets nuked after the overwhelming army has taken Jerusalem.

So the answer is no, you don’t believe the Persians/Medes used a nuke defeat Babylon. Ok good, I agree.

 

[shilohsfoal]

So the answer is no, you don’t believe the Persians/Medes used a nuke defeat Babylon. Ok good, I agree.

Ancient babylon was never destroyed by the Medes at all.

 

[shilohsfoal]

In the verses that you gave, it only mentions men: kings, rich men, great men, bond man, free man, etc....

So does that mean only men, and no women, will say to the mountains ‘fall on us’ on the great day of wrath?




It absolutely does. Luke 21 tells us that the destruction of Jerusalem fulfills the days of vengeance
22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luke 21:22 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:22 - English Standard Version
This is when pregnant and nursing women will be in distress
23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people.
Luke 21:23 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:23 - English Standard Version
And when the pregnant and nursing women say blessed are the barren and cry to the mountains ‘fall on us’
29 For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’
Luke 23:29-30 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 23:29-30 - English Standard Version
The days of vengeance, or day of wrath against this people, are fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. The unbelieving Jews are slaughtered and those surviving are lead captive to the nations.


So this has not happened yet? Jerusalem was not destroyed in the 1st century?

It willhappen on the day of the Lord when all that is write about it is fulfilled.
Luke 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

Zech wrote about it also.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into captivity, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

 

[claninja]

Ancient babylon was never destroyed by the Medes at all.

You’ve said that already. I’m just trying to assess if you believe the Persians/Medes used a nuke to defeat Babylon. It appears you do not. I agree.

 

[claninja]

It willhappen on the day of the Lord when all that is write about it is fulfilled.

Which happened at the destruction of Jerusalem when the Jews were slaughtered and led captive into the nations by the Roman armies, unless you believe that hasn’t happened yet, and is still future?

24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Luke 21:24 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:24 - English Standard Version

 

[shilohsfoal]

You’ve said that already. I’m just trying to assess if you believe the Persians/Medes used a nuke to defeat Babylon. It appears you do not. I agree.

Do you believe the Medes destroyed babylon?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Which happened at the destruction of Jerusalem when the Jews were slaughtered and led captive into the nations by the Roman armies, unless you believe that hasn’t happened yet, and is still future?

24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Luke 21:24 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:24 - English Standard Version

No.The day of the Lord hasn't happened yet.

 

[parousia70]

Ancient babylon was never destroyed by the Medes at all.

The Babylonian Empire indeed was.