Harmony or Conflict?

[Danielwright2311]

If a church doesn’t allow sinners to attend it will be either empty or filled with liars and hypocrites.

lol, that is true , church is for sinners not saints.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Well the council in Jerusalem said new converts didn't need to be circumcised. You think they and all later Christians opposed Jesus too?

Its not about opposing Jesus, its about following him and his word.

If Jesus teaches one thing and man teaches another who should I follow?

I follow Jesus only.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Its not about opposing Jesus, its about following him and his word.

If Jesus teaches one thing and man teaches another who should I follow?

I follow Jesus only.

So you believe circumcision is necessary for new converts?

 

[BNR32FAN]

lol, that is true , church is for sinners not saints.

Healthy people don’t need a doctor. Sick people do.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Healthy people don’t need a doctor. Sick people do.

So if a couple are living together out of marriage they should be allowed to continue?

 

[Danielwright2311]

So if a couple are living together out of marriage they are allowed to continue?

Just in case I would get married.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Just in case I would get married.

Durn right. Sick people get cured in hospitals, not allowed to continue in being sick:

Matthew 18
17Anyone who refuses to listen to the church must be treated like an unbeliever or a tax collector.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Durn right. Sick people get cured in hospitals, not allowed to continue in being sick:

Matthew 18
17Anyone who refuses to listen to the church must be treated like an unbeliever or a tax collector.

18 In that hour came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And he called to him a little child, and set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[lismore]

When a church or religious organization teaches something that conflicts with what Jesus or God taught us, is it better to stand up and speak out against what the church or religious organization is teaching, or is it better to be quiet and maintain harmony?

Stand firm for the truth but speak the truth in love

 

[Wordkeeper]

18 In that hour came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And he called to him a little child, and set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18
10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Durn right. Sick people get cured in hospitals, not allowed to continue in being sick:

Matthew 18
17Anyone who refuses to listen to the church must be treated like an unbeliever or a tax collector.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[jamesbond007]

But what really bothers me isn't the homosexuals. They are merely yielding to temptation. What really bothers me are church leaders who know homosexuality is a sin but give their blessing, motivated apparently by self-aggrandizement.

It's not just LGBT, but people have sex. We live in a freer, more mobile society and have contraceptives and the internet. This puts a lot of pressure on people to remain faithful and not yield to Satan.

The following is what Jesus taught. He didn't teach homosexuality is a sin, but sex out of wedlock is a sin. All of that is a sin. The book of Matthew is one where I struggle with. Many righteous people otherwise struggle with it. I'm not just talking about coveting another man's wife and adultery, but premarital sex, out of wedlock sex and promiscuity which Jesus taught against. It includes sex after divorce. That's the rub.

"And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:4-6

My advice, if you want one from a divorced sinner and a California member, is if it doesn't involve you personally, then let it go. Just being from Cali means you side with the LGBT. One doesn't even have to live in San Francisco. Not everyone, even from SF, means they're pro-LGBT (For the record, I'm okay with gay marriage). Some people at these UMC regional or national conferences can just immediately judge you to be homosexual or pro-homosexual and open up their mouths to complain just because you're from a particular state.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't completely understand your question, but in our church conference, the homosexual issue hasn't been dealt with, other than for the majority of the leaders to give their blessing to the sin of homosexuality.

Oh I see.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So if a couple are living together out of marriage they should be allowed to continue?

The church has no power over whether they will continue or not. The question is should they be denied the word of God? Why do you think Jesus ate with tax collectors?

 

[Ken Rank]

If you have a small group, the "perfect" is soon reached. Many believers became mature very quickly, as can be seen from the first few chapters of Acts.

If you have a large group, then arriving at the "perfect" is harder. Factionalism begins, some will be for Apollos, another for Cephas, yet another for Paul.

But even as individuals we are not perfected yet, and are not without error. If we think, any of us, that we have perfect understanding of God at "this time," we have deluded ourselves. I am not saying you are one of those people, I am speaking in general.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Durn right. Sick people get cured in hospitals, not allowed to continue in being sick:

Matthew 18
17Anyone who refuses to listen to the church must be treated like an unbeliever or a tax collector.

How should we treat the unbelievers and tax collectors?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Matthew 18
10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

“Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law. For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:8-11

 

[BNR32FAN]

So if a couple are living together out of marriage they should be allowed to continue?

They can change my friend and they are more likely to repent if they are embraced by the church. They are also more likely to resent the church if they are rejected for being sinners.

 

[dreadnought]

It is better to walk away quietly. You will note that absolutely no one in Christendom will frankly admit that they are in error, and then repent. Everyone prefers to double down on their false beliefs.

But when a pastor is leading a congregation astray, I think it is best to speak up.

 

[dreadnought]

It's not just LGBT, but people have sex. We live in a freer, more mobile society and have contraceptives and the internet. This puts a lot of pressure on people to remain faithful and not yield to Satan.

The following is what Jesus taught. He didn't teach homosexuality is a sin, but sex out of wedlock is a sin. All of that is a sin. The book of Matthew is one where I struggle with. Many righteous people otherwise struggle with it. I'm not just talking about coveting another man's wife and adultery, but premarital sex, out of wedlock sex and promiscuity which Jesus taught against. It includes sex after divorce. That's the rub.

"And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:4-6

My advice, if you want one from a divorced sinner and a California member, is if it doesn't involve you personally, then let it go. Just being from Cali means you side with the LGBT. One doesn't even have to live in San Francisco. Not everyone, even from SF, means they're pro-LGBT (For the record, I'm okay with gay marriage). Some people at these UMC regional or national conferences can just immediately judge you to be homosexual or pro-homosexual and open up their mouths to complain just because you're from a particular state.

Yes, all sex out of wedlock is sin. Homosexuals might counter that there is nothing wrong with two men marrying each other, but God taught us otherwise in Leviticus 18:22.