SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

[justbyfaith]

You CAN walk in total victory over sin. If you want it, memorize 1 Corinthians 10:13, which says YOU ARE ABLE to deal with temptation victoriously. Philippians 4:13, which says you CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH YOU. Ephesians 3:16, which teaches that YOU ARE STRENGTHENED WITH MIGHT BY HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN. And Colossians 1:11, which says you ARE STRENGTHENED WITH ALL MIGHT ACCORDING TO HIS GLORIOUS POWER, UNTO ALL PATIENCE AND LONGSUFFERING WITH JOYFULNESS. The third time it shall do double damage; and I consider that the third and fourth verses quoted are practically one.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sure; because love is kind. You are attempting to goad me to continue with you when it is clear to me that you aren't hearing a word I'm saying.

How can I attempt anyone to continue a discussion. Everyone is free to quit any time.

I have no such power. Nor does anyone else.

Second, I read every word in your posts to me. And when I agree or disagree, I say so. When I disagree, I offer my views, and Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The truth is something between Calvinism and Arminiasm. We are eternally secure as long as we abide in Christ. And suddenly, we are back on topic.

And I hear you, and disagree. Your understanding of "abiding" isn't found in the Bible. And your claim here is not found in the Bible. Or you would have provided a verse that says what you claim.

We are eternally secure, period. You'v added an action that we must execute in order to never perish. But Jesus gave NO SUCH CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life.

And that is why I explain John 10:28. You've noted that just quoting/citing verses are clear enough in themselves. But it should be obvious to you that those who believe that salvation can be lost read John 10:28 and leave STILL BELIEVING that salvation can be lost.

So I explain what Jesus was teaching. He was teaching the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. The CAUSE is himself. He is the Giver of eternal life. The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing.

And NO ONE has yet provided an explanation that Jesus wasn't teaching what i have just explained.

 

[FreeGrace2]

At risk of going back to the other topic, the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. iow, it is the meaning of what is said that counts and not being a stickler for the words used.

But all words mean things. This just seems to be a big dodge in what John 10:28 clearly says.

Which is why I keep explaining John 10:28, even though it's clear enough.

Where's the clear enough verse that only if believers abide in Christ will they never perish? I haven't found it, in spite of reading through the NT monthly for over a decade.

 

[FreeGrace2]

My statement, which you disagreed with, was almost a direct quote from 1 John 2:4. Shame on you for disagreeing with scriptural truth!

Please cite the post where I disagreed with 1 John 2:4. I do recall explaining what that verse means. So I disagree with your view of that verse. That doesn't mean I have disagreed with the verse itself.

There's a big difference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I have NOT. I asked for a post #, and it seems you're only goin' on your memory. You need to do better than that.

I said obedience isn't automatic or guaranteed on the basis of being born again. And I proved it by quoting 2 commands from Paul to believers:
1. STOP grieving the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:18
2. STOP quenching the Holy Spirit - 1 Thess 5:19

Hasn't it occurred to you WHY Paul gave these 2 commands? Because believers DO this. As shown by the imperative mood command which means to STOP.

Add to these commands all the other commands for holy living, etc, and we have proof that righteous living is neither automatic nor guaranteed.


You bet I do. There is NO evidence in the Bible for this idea.

Instead, we have commands for obedience. Why don't you see the difference?

There IS evidence in the Bible for this idea. I slipped it past you.

Why be so sneaky?

Anyone who reads every post in this thread will know what it is, because I even quoted it out loud for the sake of the casual reader.

My computer doesn't have sound for this forum. So you need to quote in a post.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
If teaching is your goal, then why in the world have you left "explanation" out of so many of your posts?

Aren't you aware that teaching involves lots of explanation? Just citing verses without any explanation cannot be called teaching.

I disagree. See 1 Corinthians 2:13 kjv. The Holy Ghost teaches when we compare scripture with scripture.

This verse doesn't support your failure to explain your views. Why do you think it does?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
It's pretty clear that the passage speaks of the lake of fire. The same phrase is used of the beast, false prophet and satan himself in Rev 20.

Jesus is in the lake of fire?

Really? Are you feeling ok? I'm starting to worry about you. How do you get from my post to your extremely ridiculous question?

(sorry, for some reason I missed this post). It says in that scripture (Revelation 14:7-11), that the eternal torment happens in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. Again, they (those who worship the beast and his image) are tormented day and night for ever and ever but it seems that they also, technically, shall never perish. Therefore John 10:28 is not a guarantee of salvation from eternal torment; it only guarantees that they shall never perish...they are subject to eternal torment therefore, though they are Jesus' sheep, and though they are recipients of eternal life; if they were to reject Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, take the mark, and worship the beast and his image.

There is NOTHING in Revelation to indicate that believers will take the mark. That is just a lot of wild speculation.

But i will remind you. IF any recipient of eternal life does take the mark, then Jesus was NOT BEING TRUE in John 10:28. How can anyone not see that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Therefore the Bible teaches that those who are redeemed are NOT SINNERS ANY MORE.

Apparently you've not ever read 1 John 1:8 or 10.

 

[EmSw]

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

"I am the resurrection and the life" symbolizes that resurrection and life are from Him and not from another; "he that believes in Me" denotes, he that believes in the Lord's Divine and believes that He is the omnipotent and only God; and as no one can believe this except he that lives a life of charity, therefore a life of charity, is also meant by "believing in Him.

 

[EmSw]

John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

"To keep the Lord's words" signifies to live according to the Lord's commandments; "not to see death" signifies not to see condemnation but life, into which man rises and enters by death.

 

[EmSw]

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

"To hear the word of the Lord and believe on Him that sent Him" has a like meaning as above, for by "the Father" the Lord meant the Divine that was in Him from conception, thus Himself. "Not to come into judgment" signifies not to be condemned; "to pass from death into life" signifies resurrection and life in heaven, "from death" signifying not only from natural death into eternal life, thus a resurrection, but also from spiritual death, which is condemnation, into eternal life; thus also resurrection; for the Word contains both a natural and a spiritual sense.

 

[EmSw]

John 5
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

"To raise up the dead and quicken them" means resurrection into life, not only by natural death but also by spiritual death; resurrection into life is effected by reformation and regeneration, and these by the removal and separation of evils, which condemn man, and which are spiritual death.

 

[EmSw]

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

"The dead" denotes here those who have been in evils and in falsities therefrom, but have been delivered from them by reformation; that they shall rise again is meant by these words, for they are no longer dead but alive, for they are "those that hear the voice of the Son of God," that is, those who live according to His commandments.

 

[EmSw]

Luke 14
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the dead.

"The resurrection of the dead" means not only the resurrection of those who die naturally, for these rise again immediately after death, but also the resurrection of those who die spiritually and are vivified by the Lord.

 

[EmSw]

As men rise again after death, therefore the Lord willed to undergo death and to rise again the third day, but to the end that He might put off everything human that He had from the mother and might put on the Divine Human; for everything human that the Lord took from the mother He rejected from Himself by temptations, and finally by death; and by putting on a Human from the Divine Itself that was in Him He glorified Himself, that is, made His Human Divine; therefore in heaven His death and burial do not mean death and burial, but the purification of His Human, and glorification.

 

[justbyfaith]

Apparently you've not ever read 1 John 1:8 or 10.

I noticed you took one statement out of its context, ignoring the proof.

So, in answer to your response:

1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin, not practical sin in the present and future tense. 1 John 1:10 is speaking of practical sin in the past tense, not practical sin in the present and future tense. The element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8); so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour. It is put in remission (Acts of the Apostles 2:38, Hebrews 9:22). It is still there but is no longer a threat to the spiritual health, just as a cancer that is in remission is no longer a threat to the physical health. And please allow me to add that when we allow the element of sin to control us, so that we commit sin in the practical sense, it immediately becomes a threat to our spiritual health. See James 1:14-16.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
It's pretty clear that the passage speaks of the lake of fire. The same phrase is used of the beast, false prophet and satan himself in Rev 20.

Really? Are you feeling ok? I'm starting to worry about you. How do you get from my post to your extremely ridiculous question?


There is NOTHING in Revelation to indicate that believers will take the mark. That is just a lot of wild speculation.

But i will remind you. IF any recipient of eternal life does take the mark, then Jesus was NOT BEING TRUE in John 10:28. How can anyone not see that?

People have eyes to see, and will understand that the logical conclusion of your thinking, based on everything presented, is that Jesus is in the lake of fire. But of course your thinking is faulty. So I am quite alright, thank you.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
If teaching is your goal, then why in the world have you left "explanation" out of so many of your posts?

Aren't you aware that teaching involves lots of explanation? Just citing verses without any explanation cannot be called teaching.

This verse doesn't support your failure to explain your views. Why do you think it does?

Again, the Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare scipture with scripture; and nothing more is needed. Adding man's interpreetation only convolutes things and gives opportunity for error in the teaching of man.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I have NOT. I asked for a post #, and it seems you're only goin' on your memory. You need to do better than that.

I said obedience isn't automatic or guaranteed on the basis of being born again. And I proved it by quoting 2 commands from Paul to believers:
1. STOP grieving the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:18
2. STOP quenching the Holy Spirit - 1 Thess 5:19

Hasn't it occurred to you WHY Paul gave these 2 commands? Because believers DO this. As shown by the imperative mood command which means to STOP.

Add to these commands all the other commands for holy living, etc, and we have proof that righteous living is neither automatic nor guaranteed.


You bet I do. There is NO evidence in the Bible for this idea.

Instead, we have commands for obedience. Why don't you see the difference?

Why be so sneaky?


My computer doesn't have sound for this forum. So you need to quote in a post.

So we have established that He CAUSES a man to obey His statutes and judgments as the result of the new birth. And btw, there was no intentional "sneakiness" on my part. But I noticed that I quoted it "out loud" and you didn't even respond to it. (that is, when I quoted Ezekiel 36:25-27, "out loud". The spirit of, or the meaning of, that statement is, that I actually quoted the verse and didn't only just reference it. That should be obvious, since I haven't posted any links to sound-basd material. We have only just been talking about how it is important to understand the meaning of what someone is saying and not limit it to the scope of the words. Because the letter kills. You might not get the whole message if you only pay attention to the letter. The spirit gives life. If you think and meditate on what is really being spoken, you will understand, as the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation.