What do Baptists believe about speaking in tongues?

[DeaconDean]

This debate still going?

It is generally agreed by some Baptists that the gift of tongues has ceased.

It is generally agreed by some Bapti

I will sy this i could be wrong but I believe the southern babtist made a doctrinal change in their belief on tongues bout 15 years ago....
But i dont know the details....

Also 1996 we had 40,000 pastors from all different backgrounds meet in atlanta stadium for 4 days.....
With promise keepers...
We sent 40 pastors from our area......all backgrounds..
I was in the COC at the time and yes we sent 3 of our ministers......
After they came back a few of the pastors traded pullpits for years like once a month......
Specifically the AG pastor and the 1st Babtist church
Last I heard they still did this from time to time.....

Up until 1925, the Southern Baptist Convention did not have an "official" Confession of Faith. They did, however use the Abstract of Principles written by James P. Boyce until 1925 when they issued their first CoF.

In 1925, the SBC said:

"12. A GOSPEL CHURCH
A church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the ordinances of Christ, governed by his laws, and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by his word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Its Scriptural officers are bishops or elders and deacons."

Source

It stayed that way until 1963 when it was revised. In 1963 it read:

"VI. THE CHURCH

A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is a local body of baptized believers who are associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel, observing the two ordinances of Christ, committed to His teachings, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth.

This church is an autonomous body, operating through democratic processes under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. In such a congregation members are equally responsible. Its Scriptural officers are pastors and deacons.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages.

Mat 16:15-19; 18:15-20
Acts 2:41-42, 47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23, 27
Acts 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Rom 1:7
1Co 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12
Eph 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11, 21; 5:22-32
Php 1:1; Col 1:18; 1Ti 3:1-15; 4:14"

Source

And again, it was revised in 2000. It reads:

"VI. The Church
A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3."

Source

"Exercising the gifts" has not changed since 1925.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sure they are,Paul was teaching conduct in the Church.
There is a difference between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues.
Praying in tongues is for our edification, speaking in tongues is to bring a sign to unbelievers for the Gospel.
At Pentecost they were all understanding each other in their native tongue.
1 Corinthians: 14. 21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Truly Speaking in tongues is a marvelous event that does not come around often.
Author Blesset,ministering in Africa reached a remote Village that had no interpreter.
He began to preach and they understood him ,the Gospel was preached in there tongue.
The village came to Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit working in Author.

You are taking a verse out of context. Just 22 without 23.

Where did you hear that story about Arthur Blesset. I would like to see or hear it. Is it on the internet?

 

[1stcenturylady]

This debate still going?

It is generally agreed by some Baptists that the gift of tongues has ceased.

It is generally agreed by some Bapti


Up until 1925, the Southern Baptist Convention did not have an "official" Confession of Faith. They did, however use the Abstract of Principles written by James P. Boyce until 1925 when they issued their first CoF.

In 1925, the SBC said:

"12. A GOSPEL CHURCH
A church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the ordinances of Christ, governed by his laws, and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by his word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Its Scriptural officers are bishops or elders and deacons."

Source

It stayed that way until 1963 when it was revised. In 1963 it read:

"VI. THE CHURCH

A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is a local body of baptized believers who are associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel, observing the two ordinances of Christ, committed to His teachings, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth.

This church is an autonomous body, operating through democratic processes under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. In such a congregation members are equally responsible. Its Scriptural officers are pastors and deacons.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages.

Mat 16:15-19; 18:15-20
Acts 2:41-42, 47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23, 27
Acts 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Rom 1:7
1Co 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12
Eph 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11, 21; 5:22-32
Php 1:1; Col 1:18; 1Ti 3:1-15; 4:14"

Source

And again, it was revised in 2000. It reads:

"VI. The Church
A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3."

Source

"Exercising the gifts" has not changed since 1925.

God Bless

Till all are one.

According to the VI The Church, the exercising of gifts is permissible, and yet you say they believe they have ceased. ?????????????

 

[now faith]

You are taking a verse out of context. Just 22 without 23.

Where did you hear that story about Arthur Blesset. I would like to see or hear it. Is it on the internet?

Open another thread my Sister I want to keep my fellowship here.

 

[now faith]

According to the VI The Church, the exercising of gifts is permissible, and yet you say they believe they have ceased. ?????????????

He is right ,but He is not necessarily speaking personally.
I have been a Christian for 50 years ,42 years Baptist.

 

[DeaconDean]

According to the VI The Church, the exercising of gifts is permissible, and yet you say they believe they have ceased. ?????????????

I never said that.

In fact, if you look back, I have said over and over that I once believed that, but no longer.

I did however, say that some Baptists say it ceased, and some say it didn't.

I used to believe it ceased, but no longer.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I never said that.

In fact, if you look back, I have said over and over that I once believed that, but no longer.

I did however, say that some Baptists say it ceased, and some say it didn't.

I used to believe it ceased, but no longer.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Yay! I was confused.

 

[Davisalw]

Greetings Holly,

As a quick side-note, my husband is a Southern Baptist Pastor.

Tongues is a bit of a tricky topic in S. Baptist churches. The Baptist Faith and Message does not speak anything in opposition to tongues. (Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message)

However, if I recall correctly the S. Baptist's missionary board required that missionaries do not speak in tongues at all until very recently and that overemphasis could still result in a missionary's termination. (Southern Baptists to open their ranks to missionaries who speak in tongues)

Also socially many S. Baptists believe in what is called cessation, that is, that certain of the gifts mentioned in the Bible were only for the First Century and are no longer active. Many younger pastors that I know no longer adhere to this teaching.

My husband and I both accept all gifts of the Holy Spirit and believe they are for current times still. If someone would request to speak in tongues at church where my husband was pastoring, interpretation would be required per the verses in Corinthians on edification of the body as otherwise they do not know what is being spoken. (But, well, as most we know believe in cessation it isn't come up.)

I hope the Lord helps you find your new church home,

Amanda

 

[Righttruth]

Greetings Holly,

As a quick side-note, my husband is a Southern Baptist Pastor.

Tongues is a bit of a tricky topic in S. Baptist churches. The Baptist Faith and Message does not speak anything in opposition to tongues. (Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message)

However, if I recall correctly the S. Baptist's missionary board required that missionaries do not speak in tongues at all until very recently and that overemphasis could still result in a missionary's termination. (Southern Baptists to open their ranks to missionaries who speak in tongues)

Also socially many S. Baptists believe in what is called cessation, that is, that certain of the gifts mentioned in the Bible were only for the First Century and are no longer active. Many younger pastors that I know no longer adhere to this teaching.

My husband and I both accept all gifts of the Holy Spirit and believe they are for current times still. If someone would request to speak in tongues at church where my husband was pastoring, interpretation would be required per the verses in Corinthians on edification of the body as otherwise they do not know what is being spoken. (But, well, as most we know believe in cessation it isn't come up.)

I hope the Lord helps you find your new church home,

Amanda

Speaking gibberish is not a spiritual gift! What Paul said was diverse tongues is a spiritual gift. That is, speaking a known foreign language that required an interpretation (translation) in a congregation that is not familiar with that foreign language. People have misunderstood leading to bizarre activities in churches!

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Speaking gibberish is not a spiritual gift! What Paul said was diverse tongues is a spiritual gift. That is, speaking a known foreign language that required an interpretation (translation) in a congregation that is not familiar with that foreign language. People have misunderstood leading to bizarre activities in churches!

And this is recorded where in the Scriptures?

 

[OzSpen]

Speaking gibberish is not a spiritual gift! What Paul said was diverse tongues is a spiritual gift. That is, speaking a known foreign language that required an interpretation (translation) in a congregation that is not familiar with that foreign language. People have misunderstood leading to bizarre activities in churches!

From where in the Bible do you get the theology that:

• Speaking in tongues is gibberish and not a spiritual gift;
• Speaking a known foreign language with translation is what tongues means;
• Misunderstanding of bizarre activities in church.

I would be grateful if you would show from 1 Cor 12-14 that the gift of tongues is the gift of speaking in a foreign language that needs translation.

Oz

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Greetings Holly,

As a quick side-note, my husband is a Southern Baptist Pastor.

Tongues is a bit of a tricky topic in S. Baptist churches. The Baptist Faith and Message does not speak anything in opposition to tongues. (Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message)

However, if I recall correctly the S. Baptist's missionary board required that missionaries do not speak in tongues at all until very recently and that overemphasis could still result in a missionary's termination. (Southern Baptists to open their ranks to missionaries who speak in tongues)

Also socially many S. Baptists believe in what is called cessation, that is, that certain of the gifts mentioned in the Bible were only for the First Century and are no longer active. Many younger pastors that I know no longer adhere to this teaching.

My husband and I both accept all gifts of the Holy Spirit and believe they are for current times still. If someone would request to speak in tongues at church where my husband was pastoring, interpretation would be required per the verses in Corinthians on edification of the body as otherwise they do not know what is being spoken. (But, well, as most we know believe in cessation it isn't come up.)

I hope the Lord helps you find your new church home,

Amanda

I know that speaking in tongues, and sometimes other gifts of the Spirit, are "tricky topics" in Baptist churches, Southern Baptist or not. I was familiar that the Southern Baptist Faith and Message did not speak against speaking in tongues, but it doesn't speak of them as any necessity, either.

Yes, traditionally, many Southern Baptist Christians believe the spiritual gifts have ceased and are no longer in operation. The Charismatic movement (which incorporates experiences traditionally distinctive of Pentecostal churches in non-Pentecostal churches) has pushed most of the younger generation to believe that the gifts are still for the modern Church, even though they still do not always speak of them, or stress them, in any kind of necessity or seriousness.

Concerning your reference to what Paul spoke of in Corinthians, he was speaking of the gift of tongues. The gift of tongues refers to the instance when someone speaks in a tongue that needs to be interpreted. I have experienced this before: generally the believer possessing this gift takes a graceful demand over the gathered group, everything naturally silences, and the speaker utters the tongues. I have seen someone interpret their own tongues, and I have seen other people interpret them, too.

In the Book of Acts, and in other Scriptures, believers spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire. These tongues are not meant for interpretation. They are merely a sign that the individual has been filled with the Spirit, and is thereafter used for prayer.

The issue of speaking in tongues can be quite complex, especially for those new to the subject.

God bless!

 

[Righttruth]

And this is recorded where in the Scriptures?

1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

There was no requirement of an interpreter in the entire book of Acts because there they spoke of an existing language unknown to the speaker, but understood by the some people present.(Pentecostal phenomenon)

In notorious Corinthian church people were faking this Pentecostal phenomenon. Paul gave a long rope to change that by his own crafty strategy and advised to seek better gifts. In course of time, this behavior vanished.

 

[Righttruth]

From where in the Bible do you get the theology that:

• Speaking in tongues is gibberish and not a spiritual gift;
• Speaking a known foreign language with translation is what tongues means;
• Misunderstanding of bizarre activities in church.

I would be grateful if you would show from 1 Cor 12-14 that the gift of tongues is the gift of speaking in a foreign language that needs translation.

Oz

Please see my answer in # 573. Furthermore, tongue means a language that exists. It cannot be erratic sounds from a tongue. I have seen in Pentecostal churches, people shouting, rolling over the floor, jumping up and down, falling backwards, what not!, etc.!

 

[OzSpen]

Please see my answer in # 573. Furthermore, tongue means a language that exists. It cannot be erratic sounds from a tongue. I have seen in Pentecostal churches, people shouting, rolling over the floor, jumping up and down, falling backwards, what not!, etc.!

RT,

You didn't answer my question about tongues being gibberish.

Tongue = glwssa in Greek and Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives the meanings as:

1. Literally 'tongue' as an organ of speech - and of eating food (e.g. Lk 16:24);
2. With the tongue as in speaking (1 Cor 14:9);
3. Keep the tongue from saying evil things (1 Pet 3:10);
4. Figurative as forked flames (Acts 2:3);
5. Meaning 'language'; every language = 'every person, regardless of the language' (Phil 2:11);
6. 'The broken speech of persons in religious ecstasy' (1 Cor 14:22, 'Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers' ESV). Q: How could tongues be a sign for unbelievers if it were gibberish?
   
7. Two explanations for glwssa are prominent today: (a) glwssa means antiquated, foreign, unintelligible mysterious utterances; (b) glossolalia is a speaking in marvelous, heavenly languages (Acts 2:4; Mark 16:17) (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:161).

You have chosen meaning (a) for glwssa and excluded meaning (b) for glossolalia. Why has the second meaning been cancelled?

Oz

Works consulted

Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

 

[OzSpen]

1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

There was no requirement of an interpreter in the entire book of Acts because there they spoke of an existing language unknown to the speaker, but understood by the some people present.(Pentecostal phenomenon)

That's because tongues in the Book of Acts served a different purpose to that in Corinthians. Corinthians was for the purpose of correcting disorder. I find this to be a helpful summary of the uniqueness of tongues in Acts:

Speaking in Tongues in the Book of Acts

It was Paul who exhorted the Corinthians (in spite of their errors and disorder that needed correction), 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV).

Oz

 

[Righttruth]

RT,

You didn't answer my question about tongues being gibberish.

Tongue = glwssa in Greek and Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives the meanings as:

1. Literally 'tongue' as an organ of speech - and of eating food (e.g. Lk 16:24);
2. With the tongue as in speaking (1 Cor 14:9);
3. Keep the tongue from saying evil things (1 Pet 3:10);
4. Figurative as forked flames (Acts 2:3);
5. Meaning 'language'; every language = 'every person, regardless of the language' (Phil 2:11);
6. 'The broken speech of persons in religious ecstasy' (1 Cor 14:22, 'Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers' ESV). Q: How could tongues be a sign for unbelievers if it were gibberish?
   
7. Two explanations for glwssa are prominent today: (a) glwssa means antiquated, foreign, unintelligible mysterious utterances; (b) glossolalia is a speaking in marvelous, heavenly languages (Acts 2:4; Mark 16:17) (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:161).

You have chosen meaning (a) for glwssa and excluded meaning (b) for glossolalia. Why has the second meaning been cancelled?

Oz

Works consulted

Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

Fine, please also consider the dictionary definition for the word 'gibberish'. Animals also have tongues and make noises. Similar pattern was observed in some Pentecostal churches with people. Paul use of the word 'tongue' meant an existing language with its own system of grammar and order.

 

[Righttruth]

That's because tongues in the Book of Acts served a different purpose to that in Corinthians. Corinthians was for the purpose of correcting disorder. I find this to be a helpful summary of the uniqueness of tongues in Acts:

The Holy Spirit directly addresses the gathering. He doesn't require a third person to interpret Him. This is how it was done throughout in the Bible. What was happening in Corinth was emotional persons' spirits utterances which was misunderstood as that of the Holy Spirit. One cannot degrade the role of the Holy Spirit for this purpose!

It was Paul who exhorted the Corinthians (in spite of their errors and disorder that needed correction), 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV).

That was a crafty way of Paul in giving a long rope to disillusioned people before asking them to seek better gift. All other spiritual gifts belonged to the Holy Spirit. Even speaking in various languages, not speaking gibberish.

 

[OzSpen]

Paul use of the word 'tongue' meant an existing language with its own system of grammar and order.

RT,

This is not what 1 Cor 14:2 teaches: 'For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit (NIV).

Therefore, the person given the gift of tongues,

• is not speaking to people but to God;
• Nobody understands those with this gift,
  
• because they 'utter mysteries'.

Are you calling 'mysteries by the Spirit' gibberish?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

All other spiritual gifts belonged to the Holy Spirit. Even speaking in various languages, not speaking gibberish.

RT,

All spiritual gifts are given by the Holy Spirit, including speaking in tongues, in which 'mysteries by the Spirit' are spoken (1 Cor 14:2 NIV).

I find to label the gift of tongues as gibberish instead of the biblical designation as 'mysteries by the Spirit', to be blasphemous.

Oxford Dictionaries online defines gibberish as 'unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense' (Oxford dictionaries online 2018. s.v. gibberish).

The gift of speaking in tongues is only gibberish if there is no gift of interpretation (not translation) in the church gathering. See 1 Cor 14:11 (NIV): ' If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me'.

'I would like every one of you to speak in tongues....' (1 Cor 14:5 NIV).

Oz