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Are Protestants dead?

thecolorsblend

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This is a Nicene Christianity only forum - the reason being that the Nicene creed is a statement of Christian faith accepted by many churches.
I think it also says in the Statement of Faith of this forum, that if someone does not accept the Nicene Creed they may not use the icon that identifies them as a Christian. Same reason - the creed is a statement of our faith.
"I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins" is part of the Nicene Creed. It's pretty easy to find people who disagree with that. So easy, in fact, that CF doesn't hold anybody to that.

As a general thing, I confess every word of the Nicene Creed. But my hunch is that a lot of participants in this thread (maybe even including you) would hesitate to say "I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins".

If that line is skippable, is there a reason why others can't reject other parts of the creed?
 
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Righttruth

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I agree that Paul does state that some of his advice is not inspired by the Holy Spirit but like I said he does indicate when he is making statements that are not inspired. In this particular case to the Philippians it is not a teaching that is exclusive to them only.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

By saying that “His epistles written for specific people with the problems they had from far of places, cannot be generalized blindly” you are showing that you are looking for every way possible to refuse to accept the truth. There is no way possible that this statement was only relevant to the Philippians. That’s a pretty lame excuse and completely irrelevant to this discussion. Friend perhaps you should stop looking at these verses in a defensive mode trying to disprove them and instead try to see if you can prove them.

It is the other way round. People are trying to understand Jesus through Paul! They are bent upon defending Paul at any cost. Notice in the entire Bible, only Paul's letters are titled to specific people. So the Bible itself is giving a hint that they are meant for problems faced at those places. It is like hearing one-side conversation in a phone talk. No wonder Peter warned about twisting of Paul's letters leading to destruction.

I accept his only when it complements Jesus' words. I am not interested in creating the situation Corinthians had now!
 
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Strong in Him

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"I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins" is part of the Nicene Creed. It's pretty easy to find people who disagree with that. So easy, in fact, that CF doesn't hold anybody to that.

As a general thing, I confess every word of the Nicene Creed. But my hunch is that a lot of participants in this thread (maybe even including you) would hesitate to say "I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins".

If that line is skippable, is there a reason why others can't reject other parts of the creed?

According to forum rules;
Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

I would guess that the issue of Christ's deity is a central doctrine and the matter of baptism, less so. Or maybe it's that only one baptism is "valid"; any done after that are superfluous.
I don't know; you probably need to ask the Mods this.
 
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Strong in Him

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It is the other way round. People are trying to understand Jesus through Paul! They are bent upon defending Paul at any cost. Notice in the entire Bible, only Paul's letters are titled to specific people. So the Bible itself is giving a hint that they are meant for problems faced at those places. It is like hearing one-side conversation in a phone talk. No wonder Peter warned about twisting of Paul's letters leading to destruction.

I accept his only when it complements Jesus' words. I am not interested in creating the situation Corinthians had now!

You may not realise this, but you have just given another reason why you should not be in this forum.

Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.

You are free to believe, and argue, what you like - but not on the boards in CF which are marked "Christians only."
You may want to ask yourself if it really is the case that 100s of 1000s of Christians are wrong, and you, alone, are correct in the way you read Scripture.

Posting the same thing 8 times does not change that.
 
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Righttruth

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You are the one using the word "status", not me.
Jesus said that he shared God's GLORY before the world began. These are words of Jesus; he was with God before the world was created.

The Word became flesh - the Word was born as a human and given the name Jesus.
So the Word=Jesus; Jesus=the Word.
Paul says that by him, all things have been created, Colossians 1:16. If you look back to verse 13, "him" is referring to the Son, Jesus.
Hebrews 1:2 says that God appointed the Son as heir of all things, and through him, made the universe.

You got to distinguish between what was Spirit(Word) and flesh(Jesus).
 
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Righttruth

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You may not realise this, but you have just given another reason why you should not be in this forum.



You are free to believe, and argue, what you like - but not on the boards in CF which are marked "Christians only."
You may want to ask yourself if it really is the case that 100s of 1000s of Christians are wrong, and you, alone, are correct in the way you read Scripture.

Posting the same thing 8 times does not change that.
What is important for you? Truth as shield or rules to bind you?
 
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Righttruth

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You may not realise this, but you have just given another reason why you should not be in this forum.



You are free to believe, and argue, what you like - but not on the boards in CF which are marked "Christians only."
You may want to ask yourself if it really is the case that 100s of 1000s of Christians are wrong, and you, alone, are correct in the way you read Scripture.

Posting the same thing 8 times does not change that.

Color of dress will not decide who is a Christian. So is the rules.
Sorry, posting got repeated due to computer problem from my side
 
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Strong in Him

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Color of dress will not decide who is a Christian. So is the rules.

No, they're not saying that you have never been saved, nor never will be.
But to identify yourself as a Christian on this forum, and be able to use the faith icon of Christian, a person needs to accept and affirm the Nicene creed and accept Paul's apostleship and the validity of his writings.

The Nicene creed states Jesus' divinity - with Scriptures that show this; this is a central Christian doctrine. Whether you think it should be or not, is not the point. It is; accepted, believed and affirmed by many churches.
Some of the Scriptures that affirm Christ's deity are found in Paul's letters. If someone doesn't accept that he was an apostle and that his epistles are inspired and valid, apart from affecting other doctrines, that is casting doubt on the inspiration and reliability of Scripture - i.e the Bible includes writings that are not true.

Argue about it with the Mods if you like - that is a fact.
 
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Strong in Him

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What is important for you? Truth as shield or rules to bind you?

If I wish, and choose, to post in these forums, I obey the forum rules.
Apart from anything else, it's courteous. I have not put the money and work into creating these forms; someone else has.

You may not wish to obey the rules and may repeatedly break them. If so, you risk being reported, warned, banned and maybe finally excluded - or you can do as you have been asked and take your beliefs to the appropriate forum; your choice.
 
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Strong in Him

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You got to distinguish between what was Spirit(Word) and flesh(Jesus).

No I don't, because Scripture doesn't. The Spirit is the Spirit, the Word is the Word.
The Word became flesh - Jesus, conceived by, and filled with, the Holy Spirit.
 
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sunlover1

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Paul was a saint and disciple of Jesus Christ. At the same time, he was constantly troubled by the messenger of Satan
agreed

because of his boastful nature
Not exactly what it says.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through
the abundance of the revelations,
there was given to me a thorn in the flesh,
the messenger of Satan to buffet me,
lest I should be exalted above measure.


I don't believe Paul had a boastful nature, I
think this thorn story has been misinterpreted
Even if I wanted to boast, I would not be a fool,
because I would be speaking the truth.
But I refrain, so no one will credit me with more
than he sees in me or hears from me,
 
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BNR32FAN

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It is the other way round. People are trying to understand Jesus through Paul! They are bent upon defending Paul at any cost. Notice in the entire Bible, only Paul's letters are titled to specific people. So the Bible itself is giving a hint that they are meant for problems faced at those places. It is like hearing one-side conversation in a phone talk. No wonder Peter warned about twisting of Paul's letters leading to destruction.

I accept his only when it complements Jesus' words. I am not interested in creating the situation Corinthians had now!

The book was Philippians and it was about the nature of Christ. As I stated in the post that this reply is to this statement from Paul is obviously not only relevant to the Philippians.

“Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:6‬

How would this statement change in any way if Paul were writing to a different group of people? Would Jesus not be God if Paul was writing to the Romans or the Galatians? Would Jesus all the sudden think that equality with God is something to cling to if Paul had been writing to someone else? I mean c’mon your not making any sense at all.
 
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BukiRob

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No one is "blinded". As much as I think Messianics have a lot to inform others, you guys need to get off your high horse. Not only that, but this whole premise is an insult to divine providence. It's the same thing Protestants and all of their offspring have been doing for 500 years. "Everyone was mistaken for 1500 years..You're all blind. BUT I've unlocked the truth after all of this time." Charismatics do the same thing. Where they claim "latter rain" of the Holy Spirit, and the entire church has been in the dark ages or something.

Now back to the text. There's multiple meanings from the Jewish perspective there, and it's not merely the Word as Torah. It's hard to escape all of the Temple references right in the beginning of John, so it's not merely about Torah (nor were Jews ever against the concept of using "Word" or Logos to begin with. A lot of neoplatonic teachings cropped up in Jewish circles after Plotinus, who also used "Logos". Not to mention how much this influenced Kabbalah. Nor were Jews resistant to Greek thought after that either. A lot of Maimonedes' thought is built on Aristotle). This idea of a Jewish resistance to the NT because of linguistics is bunk. It's their own stupid fault, because they also followed many pagan Gentiles over the years. Yet you would defend them as if it's everyone else's fault. No, it's their own fault for not accepting Jesus. No one else's. They'd rather follow pagans than him.

Ummm... back to the Temple bit. "The Word Became Flesh and made his dwelling among us" is literally "made his tabernacle" among us. Then after that, John the Baptist calls him the Lamb of God. All throughout John, Jesus is Torah, High Priest, Temple, and Lamb all in one. No one is blind to this. And you're not building the body up when you talk as if your brothers are blind. It's just insulting.

Whoa, you need to reread what I wrote.

Many Gentiles just assume that the Jews are blinded and THAT is the sole reason they reject Yeshua.

That is the only place I spoke about being blinded and it is in reference the JEWS being blinded. Instead what places a much, much more significant role in the Jews rejection of Yeshua is that the mainstream church has 1) Turned him into a gentile. And before you tell me I am wrong you need to consider what THEY see. They see a religion whose "Messiah" teaches that the Law is done away with. They see a group of people who largely reject the Torah and have done away with the Feast days of G-d (Note, they are NOT the feast days of the Jews.)

Based upon G-ds warning to the children of Israel that G-d would test them to see if they would obey, the churches Jesus would be a false prophet.
Deut:13 “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful to Him.

So by default, since much/most of the "church" teaches that the Torah is done away with, the Observant Jew will NEVER accept "jesus"
 
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