Are Protestants dead?

[BNR32FAN]

Don Watson
Grace through Faith removes the difficulty. Thanks for your post!

I’ll admit I have trouble sometimes determining whether the Holy Spirit is speaking or if it’s only my mind. Some things are easy to see but some are not so easy. At least for me.

 

[Phil 1:21]

“His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:10-13‬ ‭

Now let’s take a look at the beginning of the bread of life discourse.

“Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, you want to be with me because I fed you, not because you understood the miraculous signs.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:26‬ ‭

““Sir,” they said, “give us that bread every day.” Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:34-36‬

“Then the people began to murmur in disagreement because he had said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Isn’t this Jesus, the son of Joseph? We know his father and mother. How can he say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:41-45‬ ‭

“Then the people began arguing with each other about what he meant. “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” they asked. So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:52-53‬ ‭

“But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.” At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God. ””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64-69‬ ‭

Jesus was intentionally making it difficult for the people to understand to weed out those who didn’t believe in Him.

This is why context is sooooooooo important.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Lutherans are Protestants. Lutherans partake of the Eucharist. Saying that we don't partake is not a "simple fact."

I don't know, it's pretty simple.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is why context is sooooooooo important.

Yes and to have a full understanding of the entire bible and not base beliefs on bits and pieces.

 

[The Times]

A yes or no answer would be helpful.

It is not fair to ask for a yes or no reply, because doing so would mean that I would agree with the alleged Catholic"s claim

that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper.

My disagreement with the alleged Catholic stance of what constitutes the real Lord's Supper is contended with. I presented my statements of issues, facts and contentions in my response.

 

[Dave G.]

I’ll admit I have trouble sometimes determining whether the Holy Spirit is speaking or if it’s only my mind. Some things are easy to see but some are not so easy. At least for me.

The stronger you get in faith and the more you get into the scriptures, the more you will be able to discern the Holy Spirit from your own thoughts. It may not seem all that different except He is very persistent and it brings fruit that probably wouldn't occur from your own mind.

Recently the book of Job has really been a blessing to me. It came because I asked what I needed to read, what is it that He wants me to see. My mind put me in the new testament. A couple of days went by and this nagging Job kept coming into my mind. I keep seeing the letters JOB, then a thought " the book of Job". I finally caught on and said ok I'll stop reading where I am and go to Job, I said this to Him.. And the nagging stopped. That's not me that's the Holy Spirit because I've been fed richly from the book of Job over the last couple of weeks and I might add that He has not told me to go elsewhere yet but He will.. I remember the first time this ever happened to me, I was at work ( i'm now retired) and Corinthians came into my mind. Like Corinthians, Corinthians, Corinthians. I read all of First Corinthians and then I started getting 2 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians. All day at work it just kept bouncing around in my head. And so I would read at break time and at lunch and at home. It went on for two weeks like that. Then I went to bible study and the pastor says open your book to 2 Corinthians, we are going to do a study on this. Ok that would be fine to say this is coincidence if it didn't happen over and over again. There can't possibly be so many coincidences as times this has occurred or things like it. As I said , He is persistent. It's that you have to go there because He is going to bug you to death.

And I have more ways I could speak of as well. But this is why I say until one is born again, you don't know about this sort of thing. Or at least that is how it has been for me.

Ya know I wanted a nutritional supplement, common in most stores. Do you think I could find that supplement when I wanted it. No. I was getting the idea that maybe I shouldn't take this. So I went way out of my way to find some. I bought it , took it and it made me sick. Go ahead say it, that was a coincidence ! But was it really ? We need to tune in, God is right there at hand. This is why at the bottom of my page it says what it says in little print.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[LadyCrosstalk]

I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?

John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

The Lord Jesus Himself ridiculed empty ritual. The Old Testament is replete with harsh criticism of the degenerated observance of the rituals of Judaism when their hearts were far from Yahweh. There is no "magic" in the elements of communion. Communion is the representation of taking the Lord's Holy Spirit within us and sharing that bond with the rest of the Church--the Bride of Christ. The RCC is guilty here of hyper-literalism just as our Lord's Jewish hearers were at the time that He said it. Judaism absolutely forbids human sacrifice or the eating of human flesh and blood. They were left scratching their heads over His statement. Paul clears things up with his statement in Romans 8:9 which boldly says that without having "taken in" the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (depicted in the consumption of the bread and wine/grapejuice) that we are not even believers and that the Lord has no part of us. We are baptized with "the water of the word" (signified in baptism) and through the Blood of Jesus, the "Word made flesh" (signified by communion) which "cleanses from all unrighteousness". Anything else is rank superstition.

 

[Afra]

The Lord Jesus Himself ridiculed empty ritual. The Old Testament is replete with harsh criticism of the degenerated observance of the rituals of Judaism when their hearts were far from Yahweh. There is no "magic" in the elements of communion. Communion is the representation of taking the Lord's Holy Spirit within us and sharing that bond with the rest of the Church--the Bride of Christ. The RCC is guilty here of hyper-literalism just as our Lord's Jewish hearers were at the time that He said it. Judaism absolutely forbid human sacrifice or the eating of human flesh and blood. They were left scratching their heads over His statement. Paul clears things up with his statement in Romans 8:9 which boldly says that without having "taken in" the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (depicted in the consumption of the bread and wine/grapejuice) that we are not even believers and that the Lord has no part of us. We are baptized with "the water of the word" (signified in baptism) and through the Blood of Jesus, the "Word made flesh" (signified by communion) which "cleanses from all unrighteousness". Anything else is rank superstition.

Nice opinions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The stronger you get in faith and the more you get into the scriptures, the more you will be able to discern the Holy Spirit from your own thoughts. It may not seem all that different except He is very persistent and it brings fruit that probably wouldn't occur from your own mind.

Recently the book of Job has really been a blessing to me. It came because I asked what I needed to read, what is it that He wants me to see. My mind put me in the new testament. A couple of days went by and this nagging Job kept coming into my mind. I keep seeing the letters JOB, then a thought " the book of Job". I finally caught on and said ok I'll stop reading where I am and go to Job, I said this to Him.. And the nagging stopped. That's not me that's the Holy Spirit because I've been fed richly from the book of Job over the last couple of weeks and I might add that He has not told me to go elsewhere yet but He will.. I remember the first time this ever happened to me, I was at work ( i'm now retired) and Corinthians came into my mind. Like Corinthians, Corinthians, Corinthians. I read all of First Corinthians and then I started getting 2 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians. All day at work it just kept bouncing around in my head. And so I would read at break time and at lunch and at home. It went on for two weeks like that. Then I went to bible study and the pastor says open your book to 2 Corinthians, we are going to do a study on this. Ok that would be fine to say this is coincidence if it didn't happen over and over again. There can't possibly be so many coincidences as times this has occurred or things like it. As I said , He is persistent. It's that you have to go there because He is going to bug you to death.

And I have more ways I could speak of as well. But this is why I say until one is born again, you don't know about this sort of thing. Or at least that is how it has been for me.

Ya know I wanted a nutritional supplement, common in most stores. Do you think I could find that supplement when I wanted it. No. I was getting the idea that maybe I shouldn't take this. So I went way out of my way to find some. I bought it , took it and it made me sick. Go ahead say it, that was a coincidence ! But was it really ? We need to tune in, God is right there at hand. This is why at the bottom of my page it says what it says in little print.

Loading? Lol thats a great testimony. I to am hungry for the Word of God. This website has helped me a great deal by seeing the scriptures in different perspectives and then searching the scriptures for evidence of different beliefs. I listen to the scriptures when I’m driving to work and driving home. It’s about an hour drive usually and I’ll pick a book and just play it over and over for a week to really take everything in as much as possible. This way I get to re-examine each book several times. Then every chance I get at work like now I come here and discuss different beliefs. Then when I’m listening to the scriptures in my commute to & from work I find things that confirm and deny different ideas.

 

[Dave G.]

Loading? Lol thats a great testimony. I to am hungry for the Word of God. This website has helped me a great deal by seeing the scriptures in different perspectives and then searching the scriptures for evidence of different beliefs. I listen to the scriptures when I’m driving to work and driving home. It’s about an hour drive usually and I’ll pick a book and just play it over and over for a week to really take everything in as much as possible. This way I get to re-examine each book several times. Then every chance I get at work like now I come here and discuss different beliefs. Then when I’m listening to the scriptures in my commute to & from work I find things that confirm and deny different ideas.

God deals with us all in different ways, probably according to how we could best absorb..

 

[Eloy Craft]

So you believe the bread and wine becomes the flesh and blood of Christ, physically? Could it be proven histologically?

Just as His Resurrected Body in heaven is physical the bread and wine are Him, Body Soul and Divinity.
He showed His disciples His physicality after the Resurrection.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Are Protestants dead?

Some are - some aren't.

While I'm personally doing well considering my age - John Calvin and Martin Luther are long since dead and awaiting resurrection.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If someone wants to believe the Eucharist is Jesus’ actual body and blood I don’t see anything wrong with that. But I don’t think they should speak ill of those who don’t believe it. I don’t think it’s anything disrespectful to Jesus either way. Some choose to believe to honor Him and some choose not to believe to honor Him and some choose not to make a choice to honor Him.

 

[Archivist]

I don't know, it's pretty simple.

It is simple, Lutherans partake of the Eucharist. If you don’t know then what’s your point?

 

[sparow]

If someone wants to believe the Eucharist is Jesus’ actual body and blood I don’t see anything wrong with that. But I don’t think they should speak ill of those who don’t believe it. I don’t think it’s anything disrespectful to Jesus either way. Some choose to believe to honor Him and some choose not to believe to honor Him and some choose not to make a choice to honor Him.

We have different opinions and I guess that is why we have different religions. I don't know much about Catholicism but what I have heard it accused of is crucifying Christ each Mass in order to get the flesh and blood that they eat and drink.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We have different opinions and I guess that is why we have different religions. I don't know much about Catholicism but what I have heard it accused of is crucifying Christ each Mass in order to get the flesh and blood that they eat and drink.

I’ve never heard that before. I wouldn’t bet money on that. It sounds like a anticatholic false rumor.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think the most important thing that we can all agree on as Christians is we must love God. Love is believing. You can’t love God without beleiving. When you love someone what makes that person happy makes you happy and your glad to do it. Love is where we can meet together as Christians in unity. Love for God and love for one another. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!! OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, JESUS OUR KING OF KINGS, OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT OUR ADVOCATE. ALL HONOR AND GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST FOREVER AND EVER!! AMEN!!!!!!

 

[sparow]

I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?

John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

It has been common for Catholics to believe salvation is only through the Catholic church; the Lord's supper is hardly relative.

The Lord's supper is the Passover meal, which at least would be unleavened bread; Jesus is now the Passover Lamb but it seems to me that there is something wrong with eating His flesh and drinking His blood. The consumption of blood is against the Law and as for eating His flesh, Jesus did not chew the cud or have split hooves. It doesn't seem likely to me that Jesus would use illegal rhetoric as a metaphor or symbolic language.

It would seem that eating His flesh and drinking His blood is analogous with believing.

John 6:47 (NKJV)
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[GingerBeer]

Now, He hadn't sacrificed His body and shed His blood yet, so if what Catholics believe is true, how could it be true at that table at that time? How could that bread and wine have been his literal body and blood?

What Jesus said "this is my body" and "this is the cup of the new covenant in my blood" is true when he said it. What you make of it is up to you. You can take it literally or not. It's your choice. Baptists and Pentecostals appear to take it "spiritually" not "literally". No matter how you decide to take it the blood of Jesus Christ is "real drink" and it also cleanses Christians from all their sins; the body of Christ is "real food". If the difficulty is seeing the body & blood of Jesus as "really and substantially present" in communion then perhaps thinking of it as a miracle will help.