Lucifer is not the Devil

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

The Evil One put that idea in people's heads.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 14:12-17 - New King James Version

The verse says nothing about Lucifer being the devil.

And it contradicts what we know of the devil, one of which is that the very name simply means "Day Star" -- which Satan most certainly is not.

 

[brinny]

The Evil One put that idea in people's heads.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 14:12-17 - New King James Version

The verse says nothing about Lucifer being the devil.

And it contradicts what we know of the devil, one of which is that the very name simply means "Day Star" -- which Satan most certainly is not.

Lucifer fell from heaven, as lightening. Jesus Himself spoke it, and saw it Himself. Lucifer is now Satan, adversary to the living God.

The "evil one" is Satan, the devil, formerly known as Lucifer.

 

[JackRT]

The Evil One put that idea in people's heads.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 14:12-17 - New King James Version

The verse says nothing about Lucifer being the devil.

And it contradicts what we know of the devil, one of which is that the very name simply means "Day Star" -- which Satan most certainly is not.

I agree. Lucifer was used in the Vulgate (Latin) version of the Bible to mean "bright morning star" as an ironic reference to A Babylonian king with an immense ego. It has absolutely no reference to Satan. At all. Ever. It is also used in Revelation in reference to Jesus as a dawning of light in the world.

 

[Hieronymus]

It has absolutely no reference to Satan. At all. Ever.

It's a little unreasonable to state it like that.
The parallels are clear as day to most Christians.
There are many parallels and types throughout the Bible.

 

[JackRT]

It's a little unreasonable to state it like that.
The parallels are clear as day to most Christians.
There are many parallels and types throughout the Bible.

Not all parallels are legitimate.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

This name Lucifer only appears that one time in scripture and the idea that it is Satan has much support and your position cannot be proved that it is not. The verse that Brinny brought up is relevant also if you look at the description of his other attributes v 15-17
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,

This looks a lot like Satan being unmasked to me.

If you care to research it the Masons at level 33 teach that Lucifer is the light bearer and they are very much behind the NWO rise of antichrist and merge at the high levels with theosophy or Satanism. The mission of taking the place of Christ is the goal and ambition of the antichrist who we are told is the serpent of old, the dragon, Satan. He was in the garden. These are all the same being, with the same heart and it is also notable that it is in parallel with the king of Babel which is again prevalent in Rev with mystery Babylon and Babylon the great city destroyed in a single day. The goal of Nimrod is the same as antichrist who is moved by Satan aka Lucifer.

 

[Dave-W]

one of which is that the very name simply means "Day Star" -- which Satan most certainly is not.

2 Cor 11:14. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

 

[JackRT]

Satan has much support and your position cannot be proved that it is not. The verse that Brinny brought up is relevant also if you look at the description of his other attributes v 15-17
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,

It is very convenient that you ignore the preceding verses: Read Isaiah 14:4 “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:"(bolding is mine) What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous references to his human nature like Isaiah 14:16 “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone would draw that conclusion is, to me, somewhat naïve.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Uh, Yes Lucifer (Shining One) Is Absolutely The Devil:

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
• Isaiah 14:12-15


And He's also talked about in Isaiah 27:1

In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong, Will Punish Leviathan The Fleeing SERPENT,
Leviathan That Twisted SERPENT;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.



It All Comes Together in Revelation:

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
• Revelation 12:7-9


Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
• Revelation 12:13

 

[Joy]

Lucifer fell from heaven, as lightening. Jesus Himself spoke it, and saw it Himself. Lucifer is now Satan, adversary to the living God.

The "evil one" is Satan, the devil, formerly known as Lucifer.

I absolutely agree with you

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

It is very convenient that you ignore the preceding verses: Read Isaiah 14:4 “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:"(bolding is mine) What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous references to his human nature like Isaiah 14:16 “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone would draw that conclusion is, to me, somewhat naïve.

Nothing "convenient" about it. Lucifer literally means Day Star, son of the morning -- that is not Satan.

So convenient you have not even looked up the meaning of the name.

Or do you think Satan is the day star? Satan is evil since the beginning, he was never the Day Star.

Otherwise, you are speaking about an entirely unrelated verse. You might as well pull out a verse from Job and say I "conveniently" forgot it.

Why the bias? What has biased you to a lie not supported by Scripture?

 

[brinny]

Nothing "convenient" about it. Lucifer literally means Day Star, son of the morning -- that is not Satan.

So convenient you have not even looked up the meaning of the name.

Or do you think Satan is the day star? Satan is evil since the beginning, he was never the Day Star.

Lucifer was created perfectly before sin was found in him and he became known as Satan (God's adversary).

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Lucifer was created perfectly before sin was found in him and he became known as Satan (God's adversary).

He was/is a fallen Fiery Serpent Cherub:


“You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I Cast You as a profane thing
Out Of The Mountain Of God;
And I destroyed you, O Covering Cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

• Ezekiel 28:14-17

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

He was/is a fallen Fiery Serpent Cherub:


“You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I Cast You as a profane thing
Out Of The Mountain Of God;
And I destroyed you, O Covering Cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

• Ezekiel 28:14-17

Big letters!

That verse has nothing to say about Lucifer.

You might as well pull out a verse from Amos and claim that talks about Lucifer too.

Satan is not the Day Star. Satan is evil from the beginning.

The verse above may be about Satan, or may not be.

 

[brinny]

He was/is a fallen Fiery Serpent Cherub:


“You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I Cast You as a profane thing
Out Of The Mountain Of God;
And I destroyed you, O Covering Cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

• Ezekiel 28:14-17

“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;

Yes, it was the sin of pride.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Big letters!

That verse has nothing to say about Lucifer.

You might as well pull out a verse from Amos and claim that talks about Lucifer too.

Satan is not the Day Star. Satan is evil from the beginning.

The verse above may be about Satan, or may not be.

You know these verses are clearly about Satan.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

You might as well pull out a verse from Amos and claim that talks about Lucifer too.

I don't think I've ever heard about the Amos verses. What are they ?

 

[jovanovic]

lucifer served the lord in heaven for many many years, it is odd how he and 1/3 of the angels wanted to rebel when they already had the best possible lifes they could get.

btw i read somewhere that even more angels wanted to rebel but they where too scared to do it...hmmm.

 

[GUANO]

The Bible wasn't written by tolkien...

 

[JackRT]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God. So our understanding of "the Devil" is actually a conflation of the Serpent of Genesis, The Satan of Job and the Lucifer of Isaiah plus the lurid medieval poetry of Dante in "The Inferno".